Riddle me this. WH will not attend his child's B-day party because he doesn't have the balls to face our extended family. BUT he will take his mistress into my step father's place of business and act like there is nothing amiss. There are three other businesses like stepfathers within a quarter mile - why go into his and WHY bring the troll wh0re in there??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Does this mean anything?

When I left H, I asked everyone I knew for advice, including two counselors and a preacher.

If WH ever asked to come home, I would want to run it by Steve Harley, I would want WH to talk to his best friend, we would need prereconilation therapy, I don't trust myself in making that choice.

But when I wanted to come home, I didn't ask for anyone "permission" or validation. I don't even recall discussing it before hand. I only went to my H and threw myself at his mercy.

I think I should only do things that I feel so strongly about that I don't need to run it by other people first.

Hi, Jean. Sounds like you have an awesome party planned for OD. Hearing about Fake Daddy breaks my heart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> The other night when WH brought DD back, he went up to the office to get a box of his stuff, and she ran to the door after him crying. When he left, she ran to the door and watched him leave. That was painful.

OD did not want to go with WH today. She asked me why it was so important to me that she goes.

I said: "It is important to me that you have a relationship with your daddy"

She said: "I do have a relationship with him, he just doesn't have a relationship with me". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Things we didn't hear on "Kids Say The Darnedest Things" did we?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I wouldn't put a sad face...your OD is bright and aware...willing to face truth...and she's asking you "If it isn't important to me right now...it isn't safe right now...are you telling me to do it anyway?"

Interesting, amazing...and such a Jean.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

I'm not sure I am following your train of thought here (which doesn't mean much - I have a hard time following many trains of thought lately....)

So you are thinking that since you feel like if you need to consult with several sources first before taking your H back that you probably shouldn't take him back??

Hope you have had a good Day!!

Kim

Kim,
Yeah, that's what I was saying. If I think back, it is the things that I did all gung ho-ey, those are the things that turned out well. The things that I analyze and ask advice for, those things don't pan out. I think I should trust my instincts more.

LA,
"Such a Jean" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Very, very scary. Seriously, she is sooo me. And you can imagine the pressure to avoid the issues I have from my childhood. And I'll probably over compensate and screw it up anyway.

But Jean, now you have been a BS --- you have been lied to and treated horribly. Sometimes it is hard to figure out when you have been hurt so badly what the right thing is to do.

For me, it is so very hard to be gung-ho b/c I am scared. Scared to trust again, scared to believe, scared to let the defenses down.

I don't know, just my take on it. Could be your view is totally different.

Kim

Maybe that is when you know , when the WS is able to hear your fears and has a plan to make you feel safe.

But if the WS is soooo messed up with their own issues, how do they have the strength to help the BS. We work our butts off protecting our hearts during all this crap. Can it be easy to turn off the protective force field? How can you ever get to recovery if you don't let the force field down?

I wish there was some fresh recovery going on around here. I would like to observe it (since I won't get to experience it).

Amen Jean. Yes it seems we are all having a difficult time "letting the forcefield down". When I first approached this subject at MC I said I felt like he was asking me to jump back into a fire and trust him that I wouldn't burn. The MC said if you can envision it as gliding back into a warm pool instead of a fire it may not be such an elusive task.

Unfortunately, I haven't been too successful with this idea but I am still trying. Maybe it will work for someone else.
I think Jean, you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned how he has to create a safe environment, which is difficult to do when he's still dealing with his own issues.

I don't know the answer but I'll keep looking.

Another very productive day behind me. I went to work at the nursing home, came home and mowed, mulched, and weeded.I worked outside for about 5 hours. I am a tired puppy. I bought some plants that I need to dig holes for tomorrow and get the yard all spiffy for OD's B-day.

Which brings me to the bummer of the day. WH brought the girls home, he wanted to know what time he could pick up OD for her birthday dinner. I was shocked and explained that per our previous conversation, her day was pretty much booked. That our arrangement was that he would take her to lunch the day before or after her B-day.

He got a little miffed and we worked out a compromise. He will meet her for lunch on her birthday after we do build-a-bear and bring her home before her guests arrive (because WH refuses to socialize with any of us.) What was so irritating was why in the world are we having these communication issues.

Oh yeah, because WH refuses to communicate with me!! And when he does, he does not retain anything I say. I really think he lays the phone down until he hears silence.

I informed him (not in a pi$$y way) that from now on, I will email him at his old email addy that he had at home. I will cc both attorneys with all emails. He said I can't do that because he doesn't remember the password. I said I could tell him the password. He finally took that info and repeated it back three times like I was really straining his brain.

I offered to IM him, but he quickly shot that one down. Can't IM his wife and mistress at the same time, might send the wrong woman the wrong message. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

He says he would answer his phone if I didn't call him 5 times, I replied that I would only have to call once if he would answer his phone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

So new policy is I will email him and the attorneys when I need to communicate with him and I will TM him "email" so he will know to check the inbox. I can't believe what a strain it is for him to check an email box. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

But, I am to the point where I feel nothing for him when I see him. I barely recognize him, that man that I married. I get anxious when I know I have to see him, then when I do, he just seems like a stranger to me.

Weird.

Jean you seem to handle all this so well. You are a very strong individual.

Would it be helpful to put things on paper when there are exceptions to visitation etc? If it was written that he had agreed to visit OD the day before the bday then he can't confuse any other plans that have been made around that.

I don't know if this would be helpful or just more work for you. Can he not just check his email everyday like a normal person? Why do you have to play mommy and call him when you've sent an email, sounds like he wants no responsibility.

Have a better day,

"But if the WS is soooo messed up with their own issues, how do they have the strength to help the BS."

No WS can help any BS. Only FWS do that.

Apl: Staying present is not easing back into a warm pool...staying present says you're there, you're open to change and staying focused on you. You're half of the marriage...you've got half of yourself to heal...to know...to get all your lessons...be respectful and present. That's something which has no fear in it, all in your control and power...no one else's.

Jean,

Fresh recovery? Look around...the Eagles...an AMAZING beginning for recovery...

Why did you compromise on OD bday?

Why did you compromise and be his mommy to text him about email? Leave it up to him to check it, get it...know it. Respect, Jean. No mommy stuff.

No calls at all. You can do this.

Stop seeing him, visually...part of Plan B. I promise Jean, you're doing a lot of this to yourself, breaking your own promises to self and backing down on boundaries. Lots more holes to dig and ponds to create in penance.

:::ducking:::

Hey, I did my little courtyard over the weekend. Took like 20 minutes. However, I did move furniture up and down three flights...does that count? I think MBers are infecting me into productivity!!!

Follow apl's suggestion...if you're cc'ing attorneys back and forth, and there's only written agreement and no verbal or in person contact...those will stand. Reality will exist...you are in charge of your own darn love bank...know that.

Oh, and now I see where apl caught the mommy thing...please don't choose that!

LA

Hi, Jean. I agree with Loving Anyway and apl. This is the same sort of thing my STBX has done. Agree to one thing, but then at the last minute, try to bully me into doing things HIS way, which means I have to change my plans. It has happened more times than I can count, and I'm trying like heck not to let it happen again. It's totally a control thing.

Don't compromise, and don't be his mommy!

Loving, sorry to be a little dense but do mean that there's no fear in learning my lessons and healing myself? To be respectful and present for me or for him, or both?

Sorry don't mean to be obtuse but I might be a little slow tonight. Thanks so much for your direction, I always find your posts so helpful and try to absorb as much as posssible.

Apl...please only apologize for what you choose to do or say which is being bad to yourself...saying "What the heck do you mean. I don't get it" works fine.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I can be really, really vague.

I wrote a whopper on AmiWalsh's thread, if you're interested.

LOL

Guess I'm riled tonight. Usually hurts my clarity.

I got from what your MC was saying two things: One, be careful what symbols you use in your mind...they are powerful on your emotions. I subscribe wholeheartedly to that. If you view the pool as your marriage...well, you're half of it...you're already in the pool, or aren't you?

Second part...to calm your fear, which is inside you, and is a little child...embrace it but do not act on its advice...reasonable. Staying present in the pool; not judging temperature or terrain...just present...know you're separate and equal...which you are...which is respectful. Being present is being open...to hear and be heard. Knowing what your spouse is saying is his...and what you are saying, feeling, thinking and believing is yours.

Staying present...not swimming, treading water, synchronized choreography...just being. Floating on your back, not changing your position, accommodating, swimming toward or away...being present.

That's you. No fire, no boiling...no fear. You can be present...when you choose to believe no one can erase your presence...your choice.

Gosh, I hope that's clearer...something made me say it to begin with, so I'm going with it. I'm hoping it is just what you needed to hear most.

LA

Very productive day today, too tired to talk about what all I got done today.

On the compromise and communication thing. I compromised because it was a he said, she said moment. BUT, I did get one thing I needed which is a documentable (is that a word?) way to communicate with him, via Email.

The reason I have to TM him to inform him he has an email from me, is because I am no where on his radar. He doesn't email anybody, him and OW live in a cocoon. To WH, I am in the same catagory as the IRS or any other bill collector. I am a person to dodge and avoid at all cost.

Loving Anyway, I never gave him the plan B letter, because I can't, at this time, hand him a road map home. I think I went too long without plan Bing, because I just don't have anything in me right now to do any MBing.

I am nice, respectful and cordial. I did very good with the birthday compromise. I was livid but I don't think he had a clue. I did not DJ or Love Bust. Honestly, the man can't say anything negative about me at this point. Other than the fact that I try to communicate with him about our children and issues pertaining to the divorce that he insists on.

Wow Loving you are amazing. Thanks so much for the clarity, it makes the thought process much more clear for me.

I will not allow H or anyone to erase my presence, I will accept my thoughts and feelings as my own and H as his.

Jean, what if you didn't TM him about emails? What if you set up the rule that you will communicate by email, period- that way if he fails to check his email he lives with the consequences and you are saved from the two step communication process.

It's not worth investing in anger towards him right now, he's irrational and won't be listening to a rational statement from you. Don't waste your energy on him, save it for yourself and keep yourself strong.

Nothing much going on. OD's birthday was fantanbulous. She was so happy. I made her a 3 1/2 foot long, duck billed platypus cake. We have a huge fake tree in our living room full of her stuffed animals. We had games like "Albatross Ring Toss", the "Kangaroo Carry", "Peguin Races" and "Fishing for MantaRays". We went to Build-a-Bear that day and OD made a stuffed giraffe because part of the proceeds go to the Wildlife Federation. She is such an animal lover.

OD spent a couple of hours with WH on her birthday. And the girls had lunch with him Friday, which was his birthday. I never contacted him, I let him initiate calls and I accomodated as best I could without changing my plans.

He wants the D to be final by the end of June, but I don't know if he is actively working towards that. He is most likely doing nothing but complaining that this is taking so long.

He picked up the girls yesterday. I asked if he was working on July 4th or would he like the girls. I can pick up an extra shift on any holiday if I have a sitter. YD looked shocked and started to cry "You mean we won't even be spending the 4th of July all together??" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am feeling pretty good. I have to admit I am taking a new medication that seems to be extending my patience with this A crap. I literally used to get upset every weekend that he came and went, truly expecting him to have come to his senses. I used to log on here every morning to see whose WS had come home. That wears on your sanity, this stuff just takes as long as it takes. So I don't expect any WSs to do anything rational anymore - it is working well for me.

The new medication is also having some weird side effects on me. I have plucked my eyebrows, mud masked my face and found myself cleaning the individual slats of the mini-blinds (None of these actions are very familar to me).

What a ride!

Jean -

Glad OD's party was a success!!

D final by June?? It really doesn't sound like he is doing anything to move it forward.......

I do agree about the communications issue w/your WH -- don't do all the work for him. He needs to go through some kind of consequences.(like I'm one to speak!! breaking Plan B when I shouldn't have!!)

Hope you are having a good day! Do you read any of Cha Cha's posts? It's possible her WH might write a NC letter!

Kim