Pep,

" I cannot define it but I know it when I see it. " A famous Supreme Court Justice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I think the hardest to discern are those that can lie to you while looking you right in the eye. However, often that is given away when eye contact is NOT their normal mode of operation. Also when the story is too good to be true. Very true in business, but also true in personal matters.

People actually have pretty good detectors IF they will pay attention to the details. Has anyone noticed that once someone has been betrayed or suspected of betrayal, how little gets by the soon to be betrayed or betrayed spouse? Once the attenna are up, the signals are pretty clear.

I once took a security course on this and there some very subtle but important things the PRO's Do when asking questions, and it is often the small innocent questions that tip them off.

I looking forward to hearing more on this topic.

JL

***H has never been good at telling outright lies. His MO was the Lie by Omission. Is there a way to spot this?***

This was always my WH's favorite thing, too. To this day he insists that a Lie of Omission is not a lie.

I just had to learn to listen to what he was NOT saying, as in:

Me: I didn't see you today at lunchtime. (We worked in the same large corporate office.)

Him: "Oh, I went to lunch today with the staff."

Me: "The staff? Who was there?"

Him: "Oh, you know. Just the staff."

Me: "Oh . . . well . . . what would you like for dinner?"

That was when I was a doormat, BEFORE I started catching on. Once I knew better, I realized that if I wanted to know something I had to ask the hard questions and figure out what he was leaving out.

By the way, "The Staff" turned out to be solely his young, female, flirtatious, bimbo assistant manager who had a habit of bending over in front of him in the office.
Mulan

TA,

I hope these ideas are helping you. I just wanted to let you know I felt similarly about that thread. It struck a nerve. My interpretation was that the consensus was "it is normal that people will lie, deceive and betray if they haven't explicitly signed that they won't".

I understand that we're flawed and make mistakes. I agree that happens more often when we're young and are still learning. I understand the need to have boundaries and consequences, to have signed legal documents, and to be able to spot deception.

But for me, I have no interest in spending my life with people with such low integrity that unless they have explicitly signed, they will find ways to further their ego at my expense, including lying, cheating, betrayal. Life is too short to spend my time having to watch my back.

Last year I lived in Japan, where theft is incredibly uncommon and small kids travel on the subway by themselves in big cities. Its nice reminder that integrity is still alive and well in some places.

I've become a major jaded cynic after the last year - but it's helped me in my job (Human Resources).

I can spot a lie pretty well now, friends laugh when I tell them that this whole experience has been so "educational" - but it has been! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

People who are lying:

-bluff; like on "Survivor" - pretend you know things you don't know in order to get more information revealed to you - so effective!
-get defensive
-say things like "Are you calling me a liar?" - my answer? "Things aren't lookin' real good for ya right now!"

-say "I'm sure we talked about this" to get out of trouble when they know da*n well you did NOT talk about it before!

-manipulate by innocently presenting false facts about themselves to secure their position such as "I just made an offer on a house!" or "I just got diagnosed with cancer..." when they are about to be fired over their A's. (Both true life stories, cancer story proven FALSE (my FWH's OW!)...

These are a few of the things I've learned anyway...

NTL