Thanks WOL,

I am hanging in there. H seemed in a better mood this morning. I didn't push much last night and my main goal right now is to get through the day without an argument.

Plan A-ing my butt off.

Am seriously considering talking to SH. I bought the Marie Claire mag with the EA article and left it in my bathroom. The only reading material. he he.

Loni

Loni

I am learning this and I hope you are too. Try to keep and even perspective and go with the flow. My WS is so moody, sometimes up and sometimes down. I am going crazy trying to follow it. You keep the even temperment and let be the one that swings.

Keep plan A-ing your butt off. I am doing the same. My only regret is while Plan A-ing my butt is not actually getting smaller. I need to drop about 20 lbs and I am eating out of frustration rather than starving myself from being sad.

Hang in there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi WOL,

I agree. Too bad that Plan A isn't reducing my fanny by much either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I can totally understand eating out of sadness. I tend to do the same because I am not receiving much in the love and care department from my H. I am working out more though and trying to avoid eating the junk so I can try and meet one of his EAs which is Attractiveness. I personally hate that that is one of his major EAs because it seems shallow to me. But I'm trying to be cool about it and just accept that he's a guy and they seem to care more about that than us girls do. Besides, if things don't work out and I do Plan B, I will be looking so good that he can just eat his heart out whenever he sees me from afar. Sounds like a win-win situation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well, the roller coaster ride continues here at our house. Friday night, I wanted to do something with my H since all of the kids were out with their friends and we had time to ourselves. He didn't feel like it (no surprise) so we rented a movie and fell asleep watching it. Last night, all the kids spent the night at their friends houses so I wanted to do something fun. I asked him if he wanted to go do something for fun. He didn't. (again, surprise) I offered to do whatever he suggested, movie, bowl, pool, etc... He said he didn't feel like it. So I said 'fine' and called a friend of mine and went out with her. I had a great time and truly thought of myself as a human being again and not just the long-suffering wife. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That brings us to today...

He went and played football with his brother. Before he left, he said that he could take me out to lunch if I wanted when he returned. He asked if that would make me happy with him. I said "That would be nice, sounds good" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> He returned after 2:30 (I was starving by now) and proceded to putz around the house and eventually got in the shower. Then he mentioned that he wasn't really hungry...he didn't have very much money... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Plan A still in effect...so I said that that was fine. I would pay for my own meal and he could eat as lightly as he wanted. We ended up going at 5pm. I hadn't eaten since 8am. I thought my stomach was going to shrivel up into a raisin. At dinner, he started to have a convo with me and then he just went silent. Great! One of my least favorite things to do is sit in a restaurant with somebody that would rather stare at the wall then speak to you. I asked him if he wanted to talk about whatever was keeping him so quiet. NO! Then I tried to just have general conversation. That was a bust. So, I just point blank said that I was going to stop speaking now and we could just have the waitress box up our meal so we could eat at home. He mentioned something then about his brother and next thing you know, he is getting mad at me for an observation I made weeks ago about how his brother's kids have more of a relationship with the stepdad because they see the stepdad every day and my BIL only sees them every other weekend.

Instead of confronting the content of the message, I just asked him why he was starting an argument. I am getting so tired of this. He talked about how other stuff has happened in the last 2 years that has been a problem. I said that we both did things that were hurtful but I never did anything to purposely hurt him or anyone. He said that people have been hurt. I said that I didn't cause the hurt for any of them. He just looked at me and said that I don't have anything to be ashamed of then. I agreed that I don't feel that I regret much of what I have done in the last 2 years. I said that I did the best I could at the time. He brought up the OD again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Saying that if that was the best that I could do that was pretty scary. I told him that I am fine. Not only fine, but better than I have been in a long time. He asked why and I told him that I am starting to get over loving him. That it doesn't hurt like it used to. He seemed surprised. How can he be surprised considering that he hasn't been a decent H for the last 22 mos?

He talked about what is he supposed to do with his feelings. What is he supposed to show the kids with staying married just for the sake of staying married? I said that leaving for another person is not the best thing to do for anyone. He said that he's not leaving. I guess that I have to be happy that he is staying for right now. Somehow, that doesn't make me happy. Hopeful, maybe.

On the way home, he apologized for upsetting me. I told him again that I'm fine. He asked me if I was "over him". By now I had tears in my eyes, and I said that I can't believe that I still love him but I do. I told him that every time I think I don't then I am reminded that I still do and sometimes I wish I didn't because then I wouldn't be hurt by things he says or if he left again. I told him that someday, if things don't change for the better, I will finally be over him. I then looked at him and said " I must have really loved you, honey, because I still have love left in my heart for you."

When we got home, he apologized again for upsetting my. He said he didn't mean to. I told him that I am fine. I said that if I should ever forget that he doesn't love me anymore, that he always finds a way to remind me. He came over to me and kissed me and hugged me and said that that wasn't true. He said that is not how it is at all. Then he kissed me again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

That was 1/2 hour ago. I think I fell off the plan A wagon. Do you think I jacked myself up again? Or do you think that maybe, just maybe, we might be reaching the end of withdrawal? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Loni

Boy Loni,

Sounds like an interesting weekend. More so than mine. I would think your plan A is working and I am not pro but it sounds like he may be reaching the end of at the very least some fog and maybe withdrawel. The fact that he kissed and hugged you is something to indicate so.

I wonder what some other vets here might think. I can tell you though, don't read too much into it. Watch your self and keep up plan A. Also, be a little distant. That must have worked a little when you told him you were getting over loving him.

I think one thing WS's take for granted is the BS if they are willing to work on the marriage, that we will wait forever for them to get their act together.

I don't know how long I will work, but 5 months without SF and almost 2 months without any affection at all is a bit much for me. I am still trying but I am not sure how much longer I can go.

When they think we are "waiting on them" I think they take us for granted. Once again, not pro advice but I have noticed when I act, sort of, take it or leave it, with WS she snaps out of it a bit. It being the fog.

Try to have a good evening.

Loni,

Boy your WS sounds so much like mine! I'm not certain if mine is in withdrawl or still "on". He works in the same place, so I know he still sees the OW. The affection and attention and comments are so similar-sometimes with it and nice but other times not there and distant. It's just maddening. I have had one call with S.Harley and will be calling again. The main goal was to get WS to contact MB, but that's not going to happen. I have had prior MC, and confirm with others that I think it was anti-MC though they meant well.

What do I have left if the multiple times I have tried to kick him out (and start a Plan B) that WS won't leave. I mention that I would like to work on making our marriage better. WS says it's fine now. (?) WS doesn't understand why there is a problem. I say instead of getting better it'g getting weirder. I have the same no or little affection or attention. How is that better? Better for him?

I've planned A now since end of January this year. I've waffled some after the second discovery of NC. I'm sure that didn't help. So I'm going to be diligent until the holidays are over. I think I can only take it through the holidays and that's it. I can't live the rest of my life with someone who could give a s&&t about me. I wonder long term about my son's impression of this and what he thinks would be right or wrong in his relationships.

I'm not sure about being in a small town. I feel I have the same situtation with my WS working at the same company and on the same floor as the OW. How can he move past anything when he still sees her daily?

How can you get someone who is so closed and blinded to reality to get a clue?

It really sounds like you are getting there though, but it will take time. I think we need to take both our WS out and slap them with the reality stick a few times. Ah if it were that easy.

Sorry I don't have much more advice then my whinning! I'm just a little lost and hope that I can hang on and move forward to continued POSITIVE changes.

Please know that you will be OK no matter what. You have yourself and your kids to be strong for. Remember that they look up to the stable parent and will remember that forever. I know, I lived through it myself as a child. Just know that you have the strength and friends to make it no matter what. You are so important and valuable, don't forget that. And if your dumb dumb WS doesn't see that (though I think he does-somewhere in the fog) then it's his loss, not yours.

I think you are doing great! You have to be able to express yourself and be honest-if you are expressing feelings from honesty, that's more valuable then "fake" expressions. You are being strong and you are strong!

TARDIS

Tardis,

Thanks for the encouragement. I am doing so much better and although things are far from normal, they are much better than before. My H seems to be making more of an effort to be a human being rather than the alien he has portrayed so well. He has been assuring me that he's not leaving although he still has 'feelings' for the OW. The fog has lifted somewhat and the view is exciting. I am treading carefully, however, since we have been in false recoveries before.

I am continuing to withold affectionate touches but I am friendly and receptive. "Plan A all the way" is my motto.

Loni

Loni, good to hear things have improved for you. As you probably know, this takes time, lots of time so be patient and keep up Plan A.

Sounds like you WH may be defogging a little.

The feelings for OW will be there for a long time, but they should slowly diminish over time.

Loni,

That is great news. I am very happy for you. I would highly recommend you continue to withold affection. It sounds like he is coming out of the fog and I'll bet if he is like any red blooded male, he will come around looking for affection and you-know when the fog completely breaks.

Keep up the good work.

It is so refreshing to have a more relaxed man in my home. This morning, he actually kissed me goodbye 3 times. THREE. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am going to continue with what I am doing. I still get freaked out a little when he isn't home on time or if he takes longer to do something than I think it should take. He doesn't get to know that though. As far as he is concerned, I am kicked back and cool. I really do think that if he goes back to the OW, I will know.

WOL and HTW, I am still praying and hoping for both of you. This site and this forum are what keeps me going. Please hang in there. God forbid if your M's don't work out, these good people here will be there for you. The advice is wonderful and even though it goes against every natural instinct, it really works on fog bound aliens AKA WS's.

Will go to MC tonight alone. He wants to work with me since my H was a slug during his visits. Maybe the change in my H will make it easier to see MC together and get started on recovery for the M.

Plan A all the way,
Loni <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Loni, keep doing what you are doing since it sounds like you WH is slowly coming out of the fog. I am so happy to hear things are improving for you since you were feeling so down no to long ago.

Try not to get overly hopeful and take things slowly. It looks promising.

I dream of the day where my WW intiates a kiss or hug towards me. One day....

Thanks, HTW.

I am taking it very slowly. I have found that any pushing from me just sends him back to the fog. It's not all cake and punch at my house but the cold war seems to be over. I hope that he doesn't have to many relapses to the fog but I am expecting some. He has been there for too long and old habits are hard to break.

I am keeping up on your sitch. Good luck with you. At least you have her family's support. My in-laws are not so supportive. As you have read. What I have going for me are 3 very vocal and opinionated kids that insist their dad be up-front and honest and not messing around with the OW. Also, I have my intelligence and a strong sense of commitment. Use your strengths and work on your weaknesses.

I am doing fine. You will too. Eventually, you will find peace. It took me awhile but once I found it, I was so thankful.

Loni

I met with MC last night and the mc seems not as enthusiastic about H's attitude change as I had hoped but he is on board with my Plan A and with all the positive changes I am making in my life for me. He is encouraging me to continue with Plan A. He isn't willing me meet with H for counseling yet. I believe he is waiting for my H to seem more on board with recovery. I think he got tired of trying to get water from a stone.

I had a moment of insecurity last night when my H went to help a friend with an electrical repair. He had been gone for about an hour when she called to see if he would rather work on it over the weekend. Where was he? Was he with the OW? I almost got in the car to look for him. But I quickly talked myself out of it. Instead, I asked her to have him call me when he got there. Within about 2 minutes, he called. He had went to the store to pick up parts for the repair before going over there. I played it cool and didn't act the least bit worried. He also seemed fine with telling me where he was. By the way, the woman he is helping is in her 60s, at least, and not a threat to me at all.

I am still not saying ILY nor am I giving physical affection. Last night, though, he pulled me close and held me. He also said my name when he was half asleep. He was semi-asleep when he pulled me to him but I still take that as a good sign. I didn't intensify the affection but I was very receptive to his demonstration.

Plan A all the way,
Loni

Hi all,

I am just checking in to let you all know that I am still hanging in there. No real changes in my M at this time, other than less conflict and more quiet time.

My H seems to be going through less down periods and is keeping busy with projects around the house and his truck. It's not exactly the 15 hours that Dr. Harley says we need to spend together, but maybe if we continue on this path we will implement the recovery guidelines. Like I said before, I am not rushing anything. I am letting him get through withdrawal on his own timeline and I am focusing on me during that time. When or if we make it through withdrawal as a couple, then I am more than ready to focus on the marriage and recovery.

What do you think?
Loni

I gotta question for some of the vets...

Seeing how things seem to be going well, should I get h to send the letter to OW?

He has flat out refused to send it in the past and I don't know if this will be a huge LB and help him with his thoughts that I will never get over this. My thought is that the OW believes she can have my H any time she wants and that she is the magnanamous person for letting him go to return to me.

Maybe I still have issues with anger toward her and with my H for not supporting me.

I don't know, I think that I should just let that go for now and as long as the A is over and NC continues, then she will get the idea that he is happy with me after awhile.

H still seems to be improving in his attitude and actually had some sexual contact with me last night. Not sex just contact. His initiation, of course.

I feel my love growing for him again and that is a little worrisome to me. I don't want to fall in love with him again just to see him jack me up again.

So is the way with recovery? Happy, scared, uncertain, etc...

Trying to play it smart and plan A all the way..
Loni

Good Morning,

I LBd last night and I didn't even mean to. Sometimes, I swear that I just mess things up myself. Like I am trying to demolish everything I have gained.

I haven't been keeping track of my check book as well as I should and I bounced a check. My H isn't on the account and he has his own which he watches over like a mother hen. Of course, he finds the notice before I even see it and brings to me. He goes on the rant and rave about 18yrs of this. Honestly, I can count the number of bounced checks on my fingers for that whole time. All I could do was apologize and tell him I am trying to do better. I did tell him that bouncing a check doesn't make me a bad person or completely irresponsible. It just means I was lazy with balancing the checkbook.

Hopefully, this won't set me back to the beginning. By the way, I don't spend irresponsibly. I have one credit card with a zero balance and I make a good living as a nurse. I think that a full time job, raising 3 teens, being a good wife, taking care of an elderly parent, helping out at church and trying to build a personally satisfying life with friends means that I am an ultra responsible and pretty darn busy person.

Still, I didn't disagree about the checkbook and I will make a much more concerted effort to stay on track with it.

Still Plan A with a temporary setback
Loni

Hi everyone,

Last night I went to bed with Mr. Hyde and awoke with Dr. Jekyl. He was loaded for bear all evening and took turns being mad at me and each of the kids except our DD who is just the female version of him. This morning he was sweet and kind.

I am getting very weary and I think I need some kind of short vacation very soon.

Some quick ???
--NC letter to OW was never made by my H. If A is really over for as long as they say, is it necesary?
--MC wants to counsel me alone, should I insist on H going also?
--Harley's plan for marital recovery is at home and I want to bring it up with MC and/or H. Should I or is it too soon?

Thanks,
Loni

<bump> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

This is one he## of roller coaster ride. He tells me he's here to work on the marriage yet he also will tell me that things will never change and he will have to live with an unhappy marriage forever. He says he hasn't gotten over his feelings for the OW yet. I don't know. It is really hard to not get discouraged. He is getting really quiet again and I am worried that he is gearing up for another attempt to leave.

Why do I even care anymore. He has been nothing of a husband for nearly 2 years. Yet I still feel love in my heart for him. Maybe I'm as addicted to him as he is to the OW. Maybe I just need a little "me" time.

How do I show him that the future can be great if he refuses to read anything from this site or Dr. Harley's book? I don't want to "educate" him but it is so frustrating to know that there is a good chance for us and he doesn't see it. I'm sure that the fog does most of the talking for him when it comes to telling me that I will never get over this and that I have so much hate for him, the OW and the sitch. The last time he said this was a few days ago and I told him that I do hate the situation. I told him that I don't hate him and I am trying not to hate her just what they have done. I also told him that it is going to take time to learn to trust him again and that every time he is where he says he's going to be that I trust him a little more. But, if he doesn't tell me the truth or hides the truth from me then I go backward.

Back to plan a world. I feel like I am being dishonest because I am holding back so much.

Loni

Hi guys,

I am getting so worn out by his constant in and out of the fog routine. Just when I feel like the sun is going to shine, he returns to the thick blanket of fog that he has been hanging on to for way too long.

Dammit, I need to be done with this. I am so stinking tired. I want my friggin husband back and I am sick of this up and down yo-yo. I can't believe that I still want him. What kind of masochist am I? When am I just going to get it that he doesn't love me anymore and there isn't a blessed thing I can do about it. I have lost.

I'm sorry. I just need to feel cared for. It's been a really long time. I miss him. I miss the man he used to be. The one he assures me that he will never be again. I miss the man who would rather walk barefoot over broken glass then hurt me. Did he ever really exist? I don't know anymore. Maybe I was the fool all along.

Loni

Not to make you feel bad, but this is your question going back to 10/11/2005. Is there? Do have have any? Are you hanging on to something and gone?

I think you know the answers. As a BS that is working on our marriage we cannot go with just our feelings. We have to have something more. We have to have an inner drive that the battle is not lost not matter how lost it seems.

You may not have any hope. I don't see it that way. I see the same struggles you see and then some.

Keep you head up.

Gods speed.