Ditto! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

In His arms.

Aphelion:

You are correct in that if a WS or OM does repent for their sins that they are washed of those sins. Christ took our sins when he died on the cross.

I believe deeply in my faith and that has allowed me to weather some of the pain caused by my FWW poor choices in her life. In my sitch, it is hard for me to believe that the OM has repented since he continues to not respect boundaries that are just common sense even though he is supposedly reconciled with his own W. My priest told me that the pain caused by an A is normal and that we can not make it go away, but we should pray to the Holy Spirit to change that pain into compassion. I believe all BS do this even if they are not religious. Even if the M ends as a D, most recognize that it is healthy for them individually to try and be civil with their spouse. If you reconcile with your spouse, I believe that surviving the A offers the opportunity to grow in your marriage even more. Doesn't take away the pain and resentment of what happened.

The reason why it is very easy for most of us to bash the OP is that we know that at some point our WS had seen some redeeming values in our WS before the affair. We have an incentive to find those and build upon those after the A. The OP on the other hand does not have any redeeming values in the eyes of the BS. Even though it takes two to tango, we can more easily accept that our WW made a mistake and learn to forgive. We see good in our WS in addition to the pain, etc. In the OP, all we see is there bad side. If this makes me or any other BS insenstive, hateful, hurtful, or anything else...I am sorry, but I think I am probably the norm.

Serious answer. I do not find that cheating on a spouse is the ultimate betrayal. Surely it ranks right at the top of the list somewhere, but I don't judge it as the top... aka the ultimate. I admit that is based on never having felt it(but oddly enough I have had relationships where I was cheated on... and the sad fact is I have dealt with betrayal, but not felt it... how's that for conflict avoidance?) I further admit that anything I say on this topic has no credibility solely on the basis that I am not personally a BS here. As a WS, some of what I say that might be wise and profound, or if nothing else... just a good 'backed by the bible' way to be, will be discarded... because what do I know about betrayal. I am a betrayor. Of course I would speak of 'turn the other cheek' and ideas like that.

Those are in the bible. Just because I said them doesn;t make them wrong. Or right, for that matter.

Maybe the secular idea of 'two wrongs don't make a right' applies here.

To answer your question, however, I don't know. I think life is full of decisions that you must make and consider. If one chooses to behave a certain way, they should own it and not blame someone else for what they have done and they should be at least smart enough to know that not everyone will agree with what they have done or said.

We make the WS own behavior here. We should make the BS own behavior as well. In a MB based marraige is it professed here that one spouse should get away with whatever while the other controls bad behavior?



You obviously don't know me. everyone already completely discounts what I say... so ha!




Thin skins? lol. Have you spent a day in a WSs shoes? Do you even realize how common it is for the BS to absolutely assualt the WS verbally, emotionally and physically? I am sure we have it coming because we brought this on ourselves, but that certainly doesn't seem to lessen the sting of "I hate you" and the various other things a WS deals with.... EDIT:bah this is whining. I think I have thicker than thin skin. I just spoke up about something I didn't like. Thats all.

Now that I have taken a position that is highly unpopular here, I will step down. I know what I have done is wrong. I have owned my actions and I make attempts at righting. I don't justify my wrong-doings by blaming others.

The Bible story

~~The Prodigal Son~~

was one big hurdle for me to overcome during recovery ....

rewarding the sinner was how I looked at it ... until.... I put myself in the sinner shoes ... then it made sense to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am very interested in what you read from me and what you thought of it.

And what you think now. Please let me know

Patriot, if your OW was married and he knows about you I guarantee theres a man out there who has to stop himself several times per month from cutting your brake pipes or macing you and sledging your shins and fingers in the alley behind your work.

That you would deny BS the right to think this way only shows you have absolutely zero concept of the unique devastation that f'king another mans wife does to that man.

Direct action of God and pity for his GF and DS are the two things that stop me executing my vengeance upon OM.

And OMs hould drop to their knees in thankful prayer to the God that stays the hands of righteously vengeful BHs.

I was trying to stay out of this one! Pat, I do believe we do hold the BS accountable for their actions here. Yes, I am a FWW but I am also a BS multiple times. Have you seen my threads that have called me on my own behavior? I came here to change my H <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />and am actually learning to change ~me~. The bad behaviors and attitudes I brought to my M.

BTW, I do believe that infidelity IS the ultimate betrayal of a spouse and one of which I am guilty of. BTW, Pat I heard of a book that may be helpful to you and froz called "Reclaiming Intimacy" by Heather Jamison.

Bob:

Just curious, I thought the OM was a martial arts expert? Do I have that wrong?

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If I was a OM, you had better believe I would be praying for God's forgiveness and protection. Good point.

In His arms.

Hi Lem !

Yes he is. Well was. He's 54 now. I'm not stupid enough to go alone or unarmed ! Mace is a great leveller of fighting skills, as is taking four friends. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LOL....nice !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem

Bob,
I don't deny you the right to think what you want to think... nor do what you want to do. I do not have to agree with it.

Righteously vengeful? Are all British posters such Shakespeare hacks? (that was a joke, so no need being angry about it.)

Zero concept of the unique devastation?? You, sir, do not know me from Adam. You have read what I written here, I presume, and so you have a window into my mind. Be that as it may, I will not agree that based on a persons actions, you are redeemed of responsibility for yours. I also choose to extend that to what a person says. If you say something rude, then own it. And understand that I don't hae to like you being rude(example... not an indictment of you)

I like you Bob... you are passionate. I have to run. I will check back on this in a bit.

edit: and true to form, I have started a debate and incited conflict. geez... sorry about this. I was just displaying my opinion about something. Maybe I should have just bypassed the post altogether.

nottoday,

i do NOT think you or any other BS here is "hateful, hurtful, or anything else" no reason for apologies. I was just sharing my reaction for what it is worth.

i have to try a lot more than twice as much considering all i have done <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

ok, but i think that was meant to be encouragement... thanks.

now i am not only distracting myself with this thread. i am using it to allow myself to cry and feel terrible instead of continueing to do what i have been trying to do in real life since last night's issue.

focusing on that is much more productive for me right now, so i'm going to stop reading this, for today anyway.

i do appreciate the way you have all shared here.

patriot... that made me laugh, thanks, i needed that!!!

and remember, the opposite of love is not hate, try to remember that the next time you hear her say she hates you. i think that really means she loves you but is hurting. maybe thinking about it that way will help take away some of the sting.

Patriot we only know of anyone on here what they choose to reveal in print, other than folks we know offline too.

"Righteously vengeful" are two perfectly usable, everyday English words. Polysyllabic words are in regular use in Britain, not confined to historical plays.

No you don't have to like what any person thinks or does. We are from competing constituencies, you and I, Patriot.

I cannot imagine your walk as a penitent FWS. I can only presume from what you write that you cannot possibly know the walk of a cuckold. The emasculating nature of being a cuckold fires up an enormous desire: an instinct to take vengeance out in similarly masculine style. To force reparations. To reinforce self-image as the better man than the raider.

And although there is EVERY justification and sensible reason for my not wreaking my revenge upon OMs hide the ache to do so is almost a HUMMING some days.

One day I may just have to go and do it. I KNOW I would feel better afterwards.

Hey all..............in reality, I have you all beat....I got to slice my WXW OM belly open, cut out part of his f'ing gut, and leave a scar that WILL ALWAYS BE THERE with him....FOREEVR.............and I got paid to do it.

I think in the end, I got my due, in a twisted sick way.

Lem

LEM .... was the sponge count correct <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just for the record, I have never assaulted Patriot physically. He could take me in one fell swoop, and I'm not stupid enough to even try. I am what he often calls, in playful physical matches...seven days (weak).

I will admit to the emotional and verbal assaults, but I don't need anyone here thinking I'm more psycho than I actually am.



There will be no next time. I haven't said that in the longest time.

Geez...I sure am defensive today!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> good one !!

Sheesh, I do a few minutes actual work around here and come back to find a thread that is growing like a weed...

I will get back to you, Patriot. I need to get back to a meeting first.

LM, I woudl have left something inside that made a tick-tock sound late at night....