My wife was raped about 4 years ago by her boyfriend at the time and his friend. Some of the things that happened were absolutely horrific!! So naturally she has a variety of fears including that the only worth that a woman has to a man is sex, that some day I might turn on her, that without sex I would leave her... etc etc.

That is not true of course; she means WAY more to me than just sex. But being a male, I do have a very high sex drive and so much so that often I feel like I do validate her fears that sex is what I'm all about. I want and have tried to show her that sex is not that important but it boils underneath the surface and the pressure builds inside me till I eventually feel like I'm going crazy.

Let me explain more. I have masterbated 1x or 2x a day since I was about 14. It became a part of my daily routine and it served as a stress reliever and natural sleeping pill. When we were first dating, my wife acted like masterbation didn't bother her. But eventually she admitted it REALLY bothered her and reminded her of part of the rape. She has tried but just can not become ok with it. She has all kinds of fears and one of them is that I'm going to imagine other girls.

I just feel soo trapped. If she doesn't want to have sex as often as I do, that's perfectly ok with me. But when 3 - 4 days go by and I can't release, I get a little nutty and become extremely frustrated and unhappy.

Am I being unsensative towards her? Am I confirming for her that sex is all I care about by begging her to let me masterbate? What do you think should be done? Should I learn to not masterbate? Or should she learn to become ok with it?

Don't get me wrong. I am VERY interested in being supportive of my wife. I want to allow her to trust and heal. From other people, I have gotton suggestions like "just put your foot down and tell her that you are going to masterbate in the shower and that's just how it has to be; that you love her but that her fear is hers to overcome". That was actually a girl who had been raped that gave me that advice. Others said "do it and don't tell her you did". The second seggestion... I thought was a bad one. It's not right. I don't want to be sneaking around behind her back. That's not the kind of relationship I want with my wife. But the first... I tried telling her that and she litterally started packing up to leave-- it's VERY serious to her.

So anyway. I do feel very controlled and like I'm deflated. My only avenue for sexual release is her. She gets to call all the shots as to my satisfaction. I have no control over a very important "need" of mine. That's frightening.

I have always been a shy, soft spoke guy. Maybe come off as a little insecure. But inside, I used to be a very happy, secure person. I was downright arrogant at times. But since this... I feel very weak and powerless and like she just kind of bosses me around. If we argue, that's going to translate into no sex. If I don't clean the house the way she wants, that's going to translate into no sex. I just hate it. I wish I had the power to satisfy my own sexual need and then the two of us could meet as a couple as two, strong people coming together instead of me feeling repressed and like she has the key to a very important part of me.

I wanted to add a scenerio that played out last night. I was very horny yesterday morning. She said "I promise we'll have sex tonight". So I looked forward to it. But we both had had a long day. At 11pm she said
"Are you going to go to bed with me?"
(me) "Sure... when are you planning to go to bed?"
(her) "now".
(me) "ok, but why the rush?"
(her) "I'm tired and if we are going to have sex I want to get it over with early".

That was a bit insulting but oh well, par for the course.

So we lay down on the bed and turn out the lights and she says "I guess you're going to have to masterbate tonight because I just don't have any energy to have sex".

"Not a problem at all" I said. "I don't want you to have to have sex if you don't want to".

But I hadn't even begun masterbating before she started back-tracking and putting words in my mouth and making it sound like I had volunteered to wait. She said "thanks for being cool and waiting". I was like "Umm... maybe we misunderstood each-other. What am I waiting for? Not having sex? Or masterbating?" And she acted hurt and acted like she was going to cry at the thought of me masterbating.

Trying to be sensative to her, I said "Alright, alright... I'll tell you what. I can wait till tomorrow. But tomorrow if you're not in the mood to have sex I need to masterbate, ok?"

So here I was self-sacrificing and letting her have it her way. I snuggled up to her to at least have some affection. After a short while she says "Honey, I love you but I can't sleep with you touching me. Can you stay on your side of the bed?"

MAN! That was the last stray. Promising sex, backtracking, making me feel bad about masterbating, to do what she asks only to be pushed away and told she doesn't want to receive/give affection either. I was at my wit's end. I got out of bed and headed for the living room to fume and think over what a crappy situation I was in. But she threw a fit saying that she couldn't trust me in the living room... that she thought I was going to masterbate out there. That I should stay in the bedroom and think if that's what I needed to do. I felt caged as if the only reason she wanted me in bed with her was so that she could keep an eye on me and not because she wanted me company.

See how it's a manjor problem?

((Wasp)) Welcome to Marriage Builders….. I do hope that you take some time to read through the basic concepts on this site. In doing so, I’d challenge you to have your wife fill out an emotional needs survey and find out what her top 5 emotional needs are and start meeting those like a pro. Also read through the “Love Busters” section of the site and ensure that you aren’t doing any of those…..

Let me start this off with a little quote from Dr. Harley

“””Even masturbation, with no one present and no object of fantasy, takes the place of times that love units could have been deposited in marriage.”””

I think that’s evident by your last posting but let me address a few things and see where this goes.

“””My wife was raped about 4 years ago by her boyfriend at the time and his friend. Some of the things that happened were absolutely horrific!!”””

That’s terrible. Has your wife received therapy for this?

“””So naturally she has a variety of fears including that the only worth that a woman has to a man is sex…………I do have a very high sex drive and so much so that often I feel like I do validate her fears that sex is what I'm all about.”””

After reading through your posts I can definitely see that. It definitely seems to be a focal point in your life, so much so that it may have turned into an unhealthy obsession.

“””but it boils underneath the surface and the pressure builds inside me till I eventually feel like I'm going crazy.”””

Can I tell you something, YOU WON’T EXPLODE… No really you won’t. I, myself, went for long periods of time up to and including a year with no emissions of any kind and all the plumbing still works and I didn’t explode.

”””I have masturbated 1x or 2x a day since I was about 14.”””

I’m no expert but I would say that that is obsessive and probably signs of other issues.

“””It became a part of my daily routine and it served as a stress reliever and natural sleeping pill.”””

Are you up to finding new more wholesome hobbies to integrate as part of your daily routine to reduce stress and aid in sleeping. On this site there is a “recreation survey”, heck maybe y’all can find something to do together and enjoy some quality time together.

“””But eventually she admitted it REALLY bothered her and reminded her of part of the rape. She has tried but just can not become ok with it. She has all kinds of fears and one of them is that I'm going to imagine other girls.”””

I have to be honest, it bothers me. But lets address these fears she has. Do you use porn to masturbate?

”””But when 3 - 4 days go by and I can't release, I get a little nutty and become extremely frustrated and unhappy.”””

Are you implying that y’all have sex twice a week? I would further say that while yes being frustrated that a need is not being met is common, there are things you can do to help that. You can focus on meeting her needs, not passing disrespectful judgments, not engaging in independent behaviors, not having any angry outbursts, be radically honest with her, and work on giving her atleast 15 hours a week of undivided attention. These are factors that make up a Plan ‘A’. You work at getting her back into the romantic phase of marriage where she’ll be more open to meeting your needs. Further, you could court your wife all over again. Plan fun and exciting dates, write her poetry, etc….. Do all this without expectation and I expect you’ll be surprised.

”””Am I being insensitive towards her?”””

At this point I would actually say yes.

“””Am I confirming for her that sex is all I care about by begging her to let me masturbate?”””

Again, I fully understand that Sexual Fulfillment is an important emotion need for you. I think it would be best to have that sought within the marriage rather than through independent behaviors. Are you going to have it 1 to 2 times a day, probably not but your body will adjust. Provided that your wife is receptive to having a great marriage then I do believe that y’all could have a great sex life.

“””Should I learn to not masturbate?”””

In my very humble opinion, I think that your masturbating is taking away from rather than adding to the marriage and it is through the marriage that you have the opportunity to get you need for Sexual Fulfillment met. Therefore, yes I would recommend stopping.

“””Or should she learn to become ok with it?”””

To be very blunt, she’s not here and you can’t tell her what to do. The only changes you can make are the ones within yourself.

“””I am VERY interested in being supportive of my wife. I want to allow her to trust and heal.”””

OK, has she been in therapy? If not, is she willing to go to individual counseling to work through her issues?

“””I have gotten suggestions like "just put your foot down and tell her that you are going to masturbate in the shower and that's just how it has to be; that you love her but that her fear is hers to overcome".”””

That would be terrible of you to do or say. That would be controlling and selfish and definitely wouldn’t lend to making deposits in her love bank which would further lead to a marriage where this need is met in the marriage.

“”” Others said "do it and don't tell her you did".”””

Another bad suggestion. A marriage needs open communication and RADICAL HONESTY.

“””I tried telling her that and she literally started packing up to leave-- it's VERY serious to her.”””

I told you that was a bad idea….lol…. So now you know that every time you masturbate you hurt your wife. When that next urge hits you, remember that.

”””She gets to call all the shots as to my satisfaction. I have no control over a very important "need" of mine.”””

I don’t agree. I do agree that if you throw a fit about sex, continue with angry outbursts, and don’t build a loving foundation that you ain’t gonna get any….. But if you fill up her love bank and do those things I suggested earlier, you end up calling the shots. Why? Because she’ll be back in the romantic phase with you. It becomes a deal of the more you give, the more you actually get.

””””So I looked forward to it. But we both had had a long day. At 11pm she said
"Are you going to go to bed with me?"
(me) "Sure... when are you planning to go to bed?"
(her) "now".
(me) "ok, but why the rush?"
(her) "I'm tired and if we are going to have sex I want to get it over with early".”””

Let me ask you something, what did you do during the day to give her those loving feelings so that she be willing to give them back? And why are you waiting so late to go to bed? Things may have played out different with a card, candle lit dinner, flowers, or something else a little more romantic than “Let’s do it”…..

That was a bit insulting but oh well, par for the course.

”””But I hadn't even begun masturbating before she started back-tracking and putting words in my mouth and making it sound like I had volunteered to wait. She said "thanks for being cool and waiting". I was like "Umm... maybe we misunderstood each-other. What am I waiting for? Not having sex? Or masturbating?" And she acted hurt and acted like she was going to cry at the thought of me masturbating.”””

So after all this, you were seriously considering masturbating? After it’s been determined that’s a HUGE love buster for her you were going to do it anyway?

”””I said "Alright, alright... I'll tell you what. I can wait till tomorrow. But tomorrow if you're not in the mood to have sex I need to masturbate, ok?"””

So you gave her another one of those ultimatums and put your foot down again? Not good communication.

Bill. Thank you for your wonderful advice. I have posted this else-where to and am getting similar feedback. Now that I understand that the problem is mine, I will apologize to my wife for the pain and hardships I've caused her and begin working on myself.

I'm a little affraid as I know how strong my sex drive is and that it's going to be very difficult but I will give it my VERY best. I will probably have to seek councelling.

By the way, my wife has been to several sessions of councelling over the years. She has improved in that she said she used to be very jumpy and get nervous about people touching her. She's not that way anymore but still has many emotional fears and distrust of guy's intensions in general.

Thanks you!!
wasp

Hey (((Wasp))) in the meantime, why not stick around and browse through the basic concepts on this site. I'd further recommend that you read through two books 1. His Needs/Her Needs (That one goes along with this site and working on your marriage) and the other 2. Every Man's Battle that one deals with some of your issues.


Good for you...... What's your plan for doing that? I still would recommend that y'all take the emotional needs surveys on this site and determine each of your top 5. When you're meeting her top 5 she's going to be more apt to meet your top 5.


I can understand that it will be difficult, it seems like any other addiction. One phrase I heard a long time ago was "When you feel tempted, play the tape all the way through." You are going to obsess over this and when you feel that, don't think of the temporary relief or high from masturbation, play the tape all the way through. At the end of that tape there is your wife packing her bags and crying.


I'm not a doctor, but from what you've described it appears that she still has some issues..... If you suggested couselling to her, do you think she'd be receptive to it? Never being a victim of rape, I can't relate to her in that aspect but do know people who did therapy for a year or more straight to overcome their problems there after. I can totally relate to her lack of trust, I didn't trust women in general for over 2 years after my divorce because of what my wife did....... It takes time.....

It's a shame what happened to your wife. I'm sorry to hear that.

I guess everyone looks at masterbation in different ways. In some ways I agree with Dr. Harley. However, when you have a high sex drive and are forced to go without it for (to you) too long of a time, I wonder where you draw the line, you know? Apparently you're not supposed to draw a line, but what do you do when lack of sex starts to cause resentment and infiltrate into other aspects of the marriage...maybe it's supposed to - to force you to face those issues and deal with them?

You say that you've masterbated daily since 14 to relieve stress, but I'm thinking that maybe this isn't so much about sex as it is any other habit. Maybe you can join a gym or start walking/jogging after supper to help with the stress. Then drink something relaxing and take a cool shower before going to bed. In other words, replace one habit with another. Maybe you just need a wrench thrown into your pattern like this to get things going in a different direction.

Some people spend hours upon hours with hobbies. This may be something else to consider. Find something else in life that you feel just as passionate about and do what you can to learn about it and nurture that desire to become good at it.

Better yet, find something that you both enjoy doing, and get her involved as well. This will help with the 15 hours per week thing.

I think she wants control because she didn't have control during the rape. Somehow you have to get through to her that the rape was forced sex and that she can stay a prisoner to it, continuing to be the victim by letting it hamper her decisions and continue to control her or close that chapter in her life, recognizing you and the marraige as a new and separate chapter. What the two of you do is a demonstration of consensual lovemaking. In other words, a way to keep your love fresh and alive and thriving... There is a world of difference. An infinite world of difference.

Sooly

Oh, but I DO agree, and so would Dr. Harley. The partner with the LEAST desire for sex is in control. She controls the actual sex, she controls his masturbation, and she WANTS to controls his thoughts. That she wants total sexual control over Wasp is very obvious. The question is "Why does she feel the need to do this?" I suspect, like Soolee suggested, that it is a response to the total lack of control she had during the rape. Her natural anger over that is deflected to Wasp, the local male, and the only one who wants sex from her.
Not neccessarily. Not even probably. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the responses. I gotta not read some of the posts that are laying blame on her too or I'll start resenting her again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I talked to her last night. I committed to her that there will be no more materbation. I told her this was a very fragile part of me and to please treat it with respect and not use it incorrectly (such as use sex as a bargaining chip for something she wants since she knows I have no other way of satisfying myself).

I'm on day 3 or 4 of no release. At times I feel like I want to cry. It's very tough. I've realized that my associate with masterbation as a sex reliever is very much at the core of my part of the problem. Things at home are not great. When I feel sad, stressed, rejected because of her, my instinct is to want to masterbate as a stress relief. That is a problem. I think her controlling ways are definitely a problem. But I have a problem too. I gotta tell you. It's VERY tough though. I feel like I'm sacrificing myself and letting her have things her way. But I feel like I'm getting walked all over.

So (F&I) are you saying that if he begins to make deposits in her love bank that he won't indirectly begin regaining some control? Afterall, isn't that basically what this whole love bank thing is about. He is currently love busting big time by making self demands, angry outburst, independent behaviors and that's only what we know of from one post. Where are the deposits? Granted this whole situation has an added layer of uncertainty because of the rape issues. But by in large on the whole, people with over-flowing love banks drawn back into the "state of intimacy" are "typically" willing to meet the other's needs.

(((Wasp)))

Good call..... I too believe that your masturbation is a problem just like beer is a problem to an alcoholic. The actual problem isn't the beer or the masturbation rather the problem is the person consuming these things because of lacking the ability to process emotions in a healthy manner.

PS. I never said she didn't have a degree of guilt in this whole situation but you have to remain steadfastly focused on what you can control and that is you. As I mentioned earlier, read up on love busters and eliminate ALL of them. And ask her to fill out the emotional needs survey with you. Find out what her top 5 are and meet them, meet them, and meet them...... There's also some articles on "Stages of Marriage" take a moment to read that. It's obvious that you two are in two different stages. I honestly can't remember the names of them but think it's something like you are in the Angry stage and she's in the Withdrawal stage. Your job, your quest is to selflessly guide her back into the state of intimacy. There is where the marriage exists where you both get you needs met.....

Wasp:

A few thoughts that are swirling around in my head. They aren't necessarily connected, but here goes:

I believe if the two of you POJA on this issue in some way, you will feel the scale evening out a bit and perhaps begin to feel less resentful. If you are taking steps to stop masterbating, what is she doing for you? Is she seeing an IC? Are you both seeing a MC?

OCD - Have you been tested? Have you talked to your doctor about it? Not trying to be silly; I'm serious. If this habit is something that's got this kind of hold on you, it might be worth looking into.

The other thing is that I do wonder if she feels the same way about you masturbating as she would about herself masturbating. If she's masturbating when you aren't around, it would decrease her libido and keep her in control.

I'm all for recognizing that too much masturbating can be a detriment to a good solid marriage; however, I'm also for the idea of maintaining some autonomy and personal space - just for your own emotional health.

Back to my one point though. If you are sincere in stopping what you're doing to bring you and your wife closer, I don't think it unreasonable to expect her to do something in that direction herself...

Sooly

Soolee,
That's extremely balanced advice. Wish I had the clarity to think of it and phrase it that way myself.

She would be hurt if she read this because she thinks of herself as giving of herself to me (and she definitely is at times) but other times she can be pretty selfish and have a double standard. But as far as masterbation goes I'm TOTALLY cool with it. She can masterbate all she likes. I think it's hot. She knows this.

She's been to a councelor and the counselor got onto her for this and she has since stopped but many months ago, she said that "I wasn't making her feel loved" and we stopped having sex for a while. I wasn't supposed to masterbate either. But one night she was mad at me and as I was working on the computer in the same room, she "went solo" as she watched TV. Of course that sent my sex drive through the roof and I thought it was unbelievably mean and disfunctional. When I complained and said it was only fair that I be able to cum also she said "you said it doesn't bother you; you're just trying to get back at me by not letting me do it because I won't let you". The double standard, selfishness, and justification was extremely offensive to me. Luckily, for months, we have been pretty good about weeding out obvious disfunctional things like that out of our relationship. But it gives you a window into how messed up things are at times.

I am looking into speaking to a councelor about my side of the problems. She was going for a while to one by herself. We've been to couple's councelling about 3 times together.

OCD. About as close as I come to OCD is the internet. I check discussion boards like this incessantly for follow up posts and I check my email often. I think my curiosity if there's a response gets the best of me. That's about it. Otherwise, I'm an EXTREMELY laid back guy. My roof could cave in and it wouldn't bother me too much. I do think the masterbation thing stems from me seeing it as a drug to relieve stress. I associate it closely with stress.

The control thing is a very central part of our conflict. She unmistably tries to control me. She wants me to tell her every thought that I have. She wants play-by-play of conversations I have with relatives. She has almost no patience nor the ability to let things go. She can hold a grudge for days about some pretty little stuff. Everything is "now!" and she keeps picking at me about something till she gets her way-- even if she has to manipulate. This is an unmistable source of trouble in our relationship.

I hate being controlled and for a short while felt I had lost the core of who I was. I felt tired and hollow on the inside. I have since taken minor steps to mark off some areas which are mine. I'm reading a book called "boundaries" and it's proved to be pretty helpful.

So sex is yet another area she controlls. I love her and knowing that I have a problem, I do need to correct my ways. But it does seem like she's getting her way once again and that I've just re-inforced that I'm going to cave for her.

I don't know... I'm starting to get negative now. I've made her sound worse than she is. I feel good about her at the moment and she has her times where she really shines and she does things for me that I know she loves me. My point is that there is definite control issues and disfunctional behavior from her side too.

Stopping floggin the dog, in of itself, isn't going to bring y'all closer. (((Wasp))) I go to meetings and stare at this one sign that says "Expectation are nothing more than premeditated resentments"........

You noticed in my posts to you I talked about doing things "selflessly" and I believe in that. Clean up your back porch before you start harping on your neighbor about theirs. You've got issues, I think we've determined that. Keep your focus on you. As evident by your last post, when that focus shifts, so does your attitude. So again, I'd recommend NO ANGRY OUTBURSTS, NO DISRESPECTFUL JUDGEMENTS, NO INDEPENDENT BEHAVIOURS, NO DISHONESTY, and yes to making as many love deposits as you can to her....

I think you would benifit from counceling both individual and joint marriage. Take the initiative and set it up. I'd recommend that you go to a couple of individual sessions before you do any marriage stuff.......

Fair enough; I will focus on myself so that progress can be made and she and I can start to feel truely loving towards one another again. I liked that quote about expectations.

Hey Wasp, if you have been masurbating since age 14 and you use it for a stress reliever and sleeping pill, you are describing an addiction. What if you said you were actually having to take a sleeping pill the same way all these years since the age of 14? Wouldn't you think you were addicted to the pill if you said you couldn't give it up? You may want to think about some sex addiction counseling and/or accountability. I had the same problem, but then it escalated into more problems as I got older and I eventually found myself having affairs. Just something you might want to consider.

Yep. The feedback I'm getting from everybody is that it's an addiction. If I can afford it I'm going to try to do councelling.

When my wife told me earlier that she thought I had an addition, I actually went to SALA meetings twice. It was good but quite a drive and was adding to our stress because we were having a problem spending time together anyway and that was one more night a week that we couldn't be together. I also heard everybody's stories about hookers and having a hard time controlling themselves from wanting a stranger stopped at a stop-light next to them and I was like "I don't have anything in common with these people; I've never spent crazy amounts of money on porn nor have I ever cheated on a girlfriend ever". So I stopped going. I still dislike the idea of going. But an accountability partner or someone to vent to and then to set me back on the path would probably be helpful.

I can relate to that. I would encourage you, if you do go back to something like that, to walk in looking for the similarities rather than the differences. If you have an addiction, part of that addiction is denial. Denial is what keeps sick people sick.

Just some food for thought...........

There is also a website www.recoverynation.com you could go through that might have some helpful information on sexual addition.

Someone mentioned OCD, which you said you felt you didn't have. But obviously you have some type of anxiety. Sexual addiction is driven by emotions. As you said, stress was one of the reason for what you were doing. So it could be treat the anxiety and the compulsion to masturbate may go away. Maybe you have something like generalized anxiety disorder. It's not uncommon to have some type of anxiety disorder or even something like adhd driving a sexual addiction. It might not hurt to talk with a counselor to see if you could have something along those lines. It doesn't sound like you have serious problems, but you don't want them getting out of control either.

Accountability partners you trust is a good idea. Someone who can point blank ask you have you done it lately.

Another thing to do is if you can totally not have any kind of sex for 60-90 days.....I paused there so you could regain your thoughts after passing out from the thought. If you could do that it would help reset the neurons in your brain and make life a lot more bearable. It's tough in the beginning, but it gets easier. I made it through 180+ days, so it's possible to do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OH MAN. 60 - 90 days eh? That just seems so impossible. I know it's not but... just to show how high sex ranks in my book, my mind is telling me 60 day of no sex is 2 months of your life without pleasure; 2 months of your life waisted. Yeah, sad that it's that important to me.

The anxiety thing might very well be a possiblity. My dad actually had severe anxiety problems in his late 30s. I'm in my late 20s now. My dad would have a hard time breathing and thought he was having heart-attacks and what-not. It was merely anxiety and stress.

OK - I'm not a psychologist or anything, and I know I'm thinking too much and splitting hairs like I often do, but here's another thought. (Keep in mind I have no brothers.)

I do know that around 14, lots of boys start masturbating, but I started wondering how old you were when your father started having problems with stress and anxiety...

I wonder if you started because it was the natural thing to do for your age, but that PERHAPS you continued at the same rate because you felt it was justified to avoid the same health issues that your father had.

Maybe by then it was ingrained to a point that trying to change the behavior seemed like it would be too difficult.

I believe that any one behavior that starts to affect other aspects of your life deserves some analyzing - whether you do that yourself or go and talk to someone about it.

The reason I brought up OCD is because several people I know who have it, also have anxiety problems. It's just something to consider. There are medications out there that can help, and you don't have to take them for the rest of your life, you know?

Sooly