to star*fish, initially, most of the responses on here were in agreement with me, then alot popped up disagreeing with me. On EN, i believe they understood the "?" better, because most agreed with me.

The hunting is an example, i havent hunted in years (trhe army takes up too much of my time, and what time i have left I prefer to spend mostly with my wife).

I was really confused about it because of the strict wording in the book, and because of the context Dr. Harley spoke of extraordinary precautions. They sounded ironclad, and permanent. But I am beginning to believe that the "Policy of Mutual Appeal" as its called is a general guideline. Despite the hardline wording in the book.

Now for another extraordinary precaution... "dont talk about any personal information with members of the opposite sex, period. Dont do it." (direct quote from Dr. Harley during our phone counsleing session). I interpret that to mean dont discuss things with others that you havent first discussed with your spouse. Being deployed, my wifes schedule and mine are hard to synchronize, so i spend alot of time online talking to other women (and occasionally men). The majority of my conversaiton has been about my current situation. Usually I discuss things with them (both prior to and after the affair) a) in a positive light (how happily married I was prior ot the affair, and how positive i am about the future outcome of the situation, and how much i love my wife), and b) with the full knowledge and consent from my wife about what is being discussed and with whom. Usually. I will admit sometimes I "run things by" other women to get their reaction and input, so I can adjust my wording and delivery meathod accordingly (I am a very open honest person, but not very good wit hthe spoken word sometimes). One in particular is a HS friend (completely plutonic, has been since I've known her, she is more like a man with breasts to me, and she is happily married living 1000 miles away). There is virtually no threat of an affair there (i would say absolutely no threat, but this site frowns on that type of exclusive statement). So I often call her during rough times to get her input.

So my question is this, is my interpretation of Dr. Harleys words correct? Or when he says DO NOT, does he mean DO NOT?
Also, just to clarify a bit more, I posed the exact same question to my wife, and she agreed with me, saying that if talking to them helps me deal with the situation that she wants me to do it.

Yes Ray, I got it wrong, sorry. I haven't had the benefit of counselling from Dr Harley ( nor read hois books very well it seems LOL ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Drs Harley and Chalmers And Steve) know everything about affairs and marriagebuilding, their words are sage.

Squid and I don't do everything together. We do a LOT together, but i don't attend karate class with her ( although I DO help out in running their internal competitions) and she doesn;t drive trackdays with me.

Track driving scares Squid and karate bores the pants off me so it would seem to be counterproductive to force the other to particpate. We do TONS of other stuff together however.

Also one of my VERY favourite things to do is spend time alone in nature. Not sure how to share that.

Can I just say that I was a happily married woman. One of my girlfriends started sending me emails telling us that an old friend of my husband's, (a friend my husband was estranged from, partially because of the friend's attitude toward me,) was dying, and could we go to see him?

We did call to see how he was.

After three or four emails I decided maybe we should go.

However I started a new job working nights and weekends and I was going to school fulltime, so since my H and the sick friend had been close we decided my H would go alone.

He started going every weekend. Well they liked to watch the races together and old friend was dying.

A girl that my H had dated for a couple of weeks while I was away at college (basically cheated with but we were not yet married and he denied ever having slept with her, found out that after the affair re-started) started showing up at sick friend's house. The rest is history.

There is a reason for Dr. Harley's advice. Ignore it at your peril.

I'm from prime farm country- a major industry is hunting -I know exactly what has gone on, on "hunting" trips. There's an old saying back there, "I like to hunt and [censored]" "What do you hunt?" "Something to [censored]". Hunting trips turn into bachelors parties on a regular basis. Maybe you could bring your wife to the cabin and she could do somethings while you hunt, but at least she'd know what was going on at night. But anything can happen anywhere. Male peer pressure is often a culprit in affairs. You may be totally innocent going on the trip, then another guy shows up with a party girl etc.

My Husband told me he knew he was happily married and he still began the affair. He didn't want to turn down free sex.

Ray,

On this one....and you might remember I mentioned on EN....there is a really good reason for strict interpretation. This isn't about things you haven't discussed first with your wife....it's about safeguarding your marriage from affairs...and sharing personal information (in particular problems in the marriage, resentment towards your wife, as well as personal information about you) creates fuzzy borders with members of the opposite sex.


Let me ask you a question that will help you realize why this is a dangerous practice and put this is some perspective for you. Would you be willing to tape these conversations and let your wife listen? My guess is even if your wife knows about this gal and is okay with you talking to her, chances are, you're saying some things you wouldn't want her to hear. And how does that "secrecy" pose a threat to your marriage? You look at affairs as sexual....but what you don't realize is that emotional affairs create the same kinds of problems for marriage that sexual affairs do. They take energy out of the marriage, create wedges causes by even small dishonesties and secrecies, and they encourage poor marital boundaries that normally protect the marriage.

The late Shirley Glass did some incredible research (25 years!) before she died and published it in a book called "Not Just Friends". Long before it came out....people like Dr. Harley knew that emotional connections with the opposite sex are very powerful...but her research helped to bring it to the forefront of MCing not too long ago.

Let me give you some guidelines she put together about keeping good "walls and windows" in your relationship.

Hey Ray - BIG [color:"red"] RED [/color] flag here. You need to stop all one-on-one contact (e-mails, IM, phone calls) with other women. It might seem 'plutonic' to you, but how do these other women percieve these conversations?

Right now, you are away from your W and in a combat zone... You are lonely and very vunerable. Talking with other women is just asking for trouble... Please give this some more thought and put your priorities on learing more ways to become a better H for your W. You don't need another woman's perspective to do this... If you must have a woman's opinion, post your questions here in public. Private communications with women isn't going to help you rebuild your M.

Semper Fi,
RIF

WOW!!!!!!!!! I expected some resistance, but not this much. First of all, the insinuation that hunting trips turn into bachelor parties was pretty insulting. I've hunted for years with friends and family, and it was just that, 5 guys who havent showered or ate meat in two weeks, walking into the cold dark woods at 0300 trying to reconnect with nature. No bachelor party there.

to star*fish, let me say, i agree with your first paragraph, and if they want to interpret it in a fuzzy manner then thats their problem. The second part i found insulting. Ofcourse my wife could listen to the conversations I have with my BEST FRIEND. I as in capital ME have NEVER been secretive. My wife can look up the archives of every yahoo chat Ive had with these women (at least the ones on the home comp), and if she could, she could view the ones ive had from here as well. I have nothing to hide. She (my HS friend) is part of the reason renee and i are together. So if oyu apply that to tip #4 "... be sure that person is a friend of the marriage" then it is in fact supported by that doctor.

RIF, to you as well, here is where i have to say this program resembles an extremist totalitarian dictatorship, not a marriage. You all seem to think that I have some desire to hide the content of these conversations from my wife. Thats not the case, as i stated before, i use the women to coach me on how to word things when talking to my wife, as well as get their opinions on her/my reactions to certain situations. And foremost in my mind is that no matter what, even when things were at there worst, i STILL spoke of my wife lovingly, and expressed a VERY STRONG committment to my marriage, and they all respected that.

I will say that in theory, you cant argue with the principle. Ofcourse if you lock oyur spouse in the basement with a GPS tracker, phone taps, and keystroke loggers...etc they wont have an affair, at least not much of one. My personal philosophy is one that I was raised with... give them just enough rope to hang themselves... applying the love building principles taught in the program, as well as the restrictive ones during recovery, but relaxing them slightly as trustt is regained, once both spouses are honestly happy with the marriage, then why would they cheat?

Perhaps I am dead wrong, but I want my wife to CHOOSE me because she wants me more than the next guy, not because she doesn't know any other guy. and the same goes for me. If in the end she chooses him, then i guess the better man won...

his program resembles an extremist totalitarian dictatorship

You don't have to follow MB. Theres no compulsion. Just because it has been proven successful in thousands of marriages doesn't mean you have to adhere to it. You can do what you did before if you like. As Dr. Phil would say, "how's THAT working out for ya?".

If you do what you always did you'll get what you always got.

What parts of MB you try or not, or some competing rationale is entirely up to you mate. Remember that. You'll just get experiences and suggestions from folks here, not orders.

All blessings.

Ray - I don't think you have any desire to hide anything from your W.

You asked us a question and I gave you an anser from MY perspective. If you feel that by abiding by this concept that you will have an extreemist totalitarian M, then you are more than welcome to form your own opinions and guidelines that you want to use in your M.

I'm not about to sit here and try to change your mind or get you to 'agree' with me. You are a grown man and can make up your own mind as to what is best for your M.

Semper Fi,
RIF

***The second part i found insulting. Ofcourse my wife could listen to the conversations I have with my BEST FRIEND.***

This really jumped out at me.

Why on earth is your *wife* not your best friend?

Maybe because of the time you spend cultivating your bond with this other woman instead of with your wife, to the point where this other woman is your best friend and your wife is not?

And that part about "she's just a man with breasts to me -- " Oh, puhleez. My WH still tries desperately to make me believe that he didn't even know his very close Best Friends were women at all - not even the one who used to bend over in front of him in public and shove her a$$ right in his face. Do straight men who are "Best Friends" normally do that to each other? (Hey, I'm just askin'.)

Every BS here has got horror stories about how their spouse decided it was okay to make some other opposite-gender person their Best Friend instead of making sure that their *spouse* was their Best Friend.

That path leads directly to chaos, misery and divorce. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.00. But you don't have to take our word for it. If you keep doing this, you will, very sadly, find out for yourself.

We are trying our collective best to reach you before it really is too late.
Mulan

Ray,

*warning warning....humorous, sarcastic, smarta$$ post follows*

Offense is taken....not given. I spent a considerable amount of (my) time giving you a sincere, well thought out and researched answer to your question. I asked you the kind of questions that usually help most folks understand this portion of marital boundaries. If they didn't apply to you....that's all you needed to say...instead....you've decided to get all huffy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I'll tell ya something....It's looking more and more like you're just searching for some portion of this program that you don't like so you can say "this is militant crap, and I ain't doin' it". So don't do it cowboy....nobody here is forcing you to do anything. Between Harley, Glass and Vaughn (the folks I quoted) they have something like 80 years of research on opposite sex relationships....marital and extramarital. I thought you were really interested in understanding and exploring these issues....but maybe you're not. *sigh* Maybe your just interested in justifying anything you do....even if those things may have put your marriage in crummy shape in the first place. Why not keep an open mind for a while??? Getting defensive won't help you learn anything....and it sure won't help your marriage.

Oh....and just in case you really want something to be offended about *devil*...I think your claim that your wife could listen to any of your convos is a bunch a bunk!!!.....hehehe so there. You know why I think so???? Well you stated it. You want these other women to rephrase stuff for you rather than for her to hear the raw data. If you weren't afraid for her to hear...you wouldn't need to call anyone else. Personally....I think she deserves the raw data and the real you even if that hurts. Does she know you have female "ghost writers"???

I'm confused about whether there was infidelity in your marriage. Sometimes it sounds like there was....sometimes it doesn't? What's the skinny on that?

You CAN have friends of the opposite sex....but UNLESS you keep EXCELLENT boundaries in place (like the ones I posted to you)....and use honesty and openess with your spouse...you increase the risk crossing friendship lines into dangerous and vulnerable territory.

Lighten up chere....relax...stay awhile.


*The Littlest Tyrant*

First to eveyone, i have spent the last month touting the praises of this website and program to everyone i konw. Single and married friends alike, becuase it really looks like a good program. Just because i have a few questions about some of the stricter guidelines doesn't mean im being argumentative just for spite, and it doesn't mean im trying in any way to debunk the program. I am SOLD on the basic concept, and can easily see the logic behind the rest. But it just looks like it is trying to remove free will from the equation.

I am trying to accomplish two things, 1) understand the program as completely as possible (i.e. the hows and whys of everything), 2) decide how it fits into my scenario.

I admitt to getting defensive, but look at some of the accusations (some of) you are making towards me... calling me a liar, saying im hiding stuff, implying that my best friend is some kind of home wrecker (i differentiate between friends and wife, of course my wife is my best friend, i was referring to people Im not married to when i was talking about best friend, but i do understand that point, and agree with it fully, bad choice of words on my part), and sorry, no she (my best friend) has never been sexually suggestive or flirtatious with me. I believe in boundaries, for example, when my friend and i were in HS, we often fell asleep together in her bed ( no cuddling, or foreplay, or anything even remotely sexual, just fall asleep after talking into the wee hours of the night), now that Im married, i wouldn't do that out of respect for my wife. To me thats a reasonable boundary. But to ask me to give up the bond that i have with someone just because others have been hurt by similar situations. Why is it OK for me to share my feelings only with MB? Why not with a friend who has counseled me through the last 12 years of my life?

I guess the basic point Im getting at is that people are different. How many of your WS's have fallen asleep in the same bed with female friends in HS and it was TOTALLY innocent? Alot of what Im getting is that you doubt my sincerity. In reference to doing what i always did... the only issues (so far) that my wife and I have discovered were my alcoholism and the stupid immature things i did when drunk, and the fact that she never shared her feelings with me about ANYTHING negative to include the acloholism. Everything else on the EN questionaire we got high marks. It was my alcoholsim combined with her severe depression and my year long deployment that caused the affair. So I dont see how asking a freind for help with my complete lack of tact is a problem.

I am confused and lost right now. I ask for guidance, and seem to get ridicule and finger pointing.

Ray,

I'm sorry you're feeling ridiculed. This flat medium doesn't support humor very well and again, you seem offended....sorry. I was serious about "offense" being taken though. I'm not sure folks are leveling acusations about you and your friend, but do expect some skepticism about friendships here since the majority of affairs begin that way. You're hurting, and I'm sorry....but recognize that most of the folks here have also been through horrible experiences. In most of those situations, the wayward spouse swore that he/she and the affair partner were "just friends" and that it was completely innocent. Some were even told that they were crazy, jealous sick people because they questioned those friendships....but it turns out they weren't. So that is the perspective that many folks are operating from. It's not meant to put you on the defensive or doubt your sincerity but it's the kind of justification that was used to make many of them doubt their own sanity.

Since both of you were involved in infidelity...then somewhere along the way the safeguards for your marriage broke down. Alcohol and separation can certainly play into those things....create more vulnerability...but they aren't the core of why these things happened. Those are things you're trying to explore now with your counselor....and prevent.

I don't think your HS friend has much to do with this at all....except in the sense that she represents an area (opposite sex friendships) where you may want to tread very carefully and be openminded about some of the dangers that CAN be associated with these things. Surely you and your friend have more common ground than just your marital problems which should probably remain between you and your wife. But what I think really isn't important....it's what your wife thinks....and what your counselor thinks.


It could be a problem if your wife viewed it as a violation of trust. Since she isn't here, I can't possibly know if she feels comfortable with you talking to your friend about the intimacies of her marriage or helping you "word" the way you speak. I know I probably would not...but again...that's just me, and it's your wife's feelings that are important. There are probably less intrusive ways to learn tactfulness....maybe you could consider some of those instead. All friendships...with either sex....have the potential to take energy and time from a marriage and to create conflict. That's why Shirley Glass says all friends should be "friends of the marriage". I know marriages where the wife's girlfriends, or the husband's guy friends create big problems for them. That doesn't mean married people can't have friends of either sex...it does mean that they should protect their marriages by surrounding themselves with supportive environments.

She has told me she is fine with the relationship "Kristin" and I have. She also knows that I am not good at verbal communication, and that if it helps me get my thoughts straight, and get the right wording, she prefers it, because the "raw data" put into the wrong format can come out hurtfull, even though its not intended that way.

Kristin and I have alot of common ground, and our conversations cover lots of topics, but right now, she is the shoulder i cry on more than anything else.

I would also like to add that my infidelity was not with a friend, or even a woman who's name i knew. It was random, and even then I was unable to complete the deed due to the overwhelming guilt. Not leesening my role in this, just pointing it out in reference to the "just a friend" comments.

Thanks for you help and input.

***Kristin and I have alot of common ground, and our conversations cover lots of topics, but right now, she is the shoulder i cry on more than anything else.***

Ray, I submit that it's your relationship with "Kristin" that is causing more damage to your marriage than your one-night stand ever did.

No married man should be crying on another woman's shoulder. Period. No excuses. If you value your marriage, you will stop doing this NOW.

Here's what I see in your posts: You will fight for your right to spend time with "Kristin," but then turn around and argue about how much time you HAVE to spend with your wife.

My WH does exactly the same thing. He is going to end up divorced.

You are on very dangerous ground. If you do want to save your marriage and make it better, you are going about it exactly backward.

Please don't say we didn't warn you.
Mulan

Mulan,

You are either misreading my posts, or I am not doing a good job of putting things in the right context. I challenge you to show me where i complain about "having" to spend time with my wife. I complain about my wife not spending enough time with me (mabye thats why I find other women to talk to, but in my case it will not lead to an affair, why, because i share the content of those conversations with my wife, so to balance my lack of adherance to one extraordinary precaution that i feel is unwarranted in my situation, i counter that with additional effort in other areas of precaution). I love spending time with my wife. My wife and I top 5 EN were almost the same, affection, SF, rec comp, conversation, and honesty were our top fives. slightly different orders, but in the top 5 for us both. I am saying this to express in some way that I am not the typical guy. I catch all kinds of flak from my male friends for being "sensitive", and "caring", and what not. Im not stoic, im not withdrawn, i exhibit alot of feminine traits, and convesely, my wife exhibits alot of masculine traits (high sex drive, sporty outdoorsy type...etc) (personally i think thats why we fit so well together in the first place). I am very open and honest. Infact I have been told on many occasions (not only by my wife but by friends as well) that I am "honest to a flaw."

As I said before, and as star*fish agreed, alot of you are putting your bad experiences into the context fo my relationship, which is good,thats the WHOLE POINT of this forum, thats how we learn from others so we dont make the same mistakes, but, in the context of this friendship, its getting annoying. This woman and I have been PLUTONIC friends since HS. I have slept in her bed, I LIVED IN HER HOUSE WITH HER FAMILY for 6 months before i joined the army. She is family. Her family is my family. We exchange wedding gifts, birthday gifts, christmas gifts, I helped raise her two little sisters for a few months, I am their big brother. I go to family reunions with them. I call her grandparents "Omi and Papa" (german for grandma and grandpa), I call her mom "Ma". and when i call her on the phone, i say "hey sis how ya doin'", and she starts her letters with "hows my big brother doing? mom and the girls are worried about you..." I dont know how much more I can beat this dead horse.

I will concede that when ANY relationship starts taking away from the marriage it is bad, but this one is beneficial to the marriage. this very site says "privacy is good, but SECRECY is bad", there are no secrets that i share with kristin and not with my wife. I have no more secrets. My ONS secret lasted two weeks. Aside from that, i have told my wife everything I have done, good or bad. And now it seems that alot of that should have been left in the closet, because she would never have found out, but because I told her, now i find out two years later that they were a big problem for her, and part of the reason she strayed. (honest to a flaw).

I will take your comments, and keep them on file, but just have some faith in me. Just like i didn't use any of the xtraordinary precatuions to prevent further contact with wifes OM after d-day, i took her at her word, and she stuck to it, realize that people are different. Your way (the MB way) is foolproof, but other ways can also work.

Ray,

I just want to chime in that I have problems with some of the guidelines set forth in MB and views that are prevailing on this forum.

Like you I am the “sensitive” guy. I do have female friends – nearly all of them good friends of my wife. Since I was betrayed in a former relationship and my wife has seen the effects on me she knows I am the most unlikely candidate to have an affair. At least she does not say that it bothers her and we are quite honest to each other.

Emotionally and mentally I guess I am very stable. I have a lot of life-experience and have been able to channel that into something positive. I am a good “peoples-person” and many of these lady friends regard me as a “brother” and look to me to help them regarding various issues in their relationships. I do not meddle – I try to keep out but if asked my answers are always very honest and not always what they want to hear. Normally it is the simple rule “think-analyze-decide-implement”.

Although we have common activities there are separate activities that are very important to us. I told you about my fly-fishing (anybody need hardly used female size waders?). She has her “girls only” sewing club. That club goes to a cabin for a weekend every year – and husbands are not welcome. A definite no-no according to MB.

Do we have a good marriage? I don’t know. We don’t quarrel. We are both involved in the finances and are on a good path there. We are setting family goals and reaching them. We are very kind to each other. We make love every now and then. I guess it is as good a 20 year old marriage as can be IF YOU TAKE THE MARRIAGE FOR GRANTED.

That is our problem and that is where I find a lot of good points in MB.

When I first posted here with my problems in my marriage the instant reply was that she was having an affair. Something I doubted but due to my background was easy to sow seeds of suspicion in my brain. So I did my research (recorder, GPS, e-mail, mobile) and found no evidence. The answers – she’s hiding it – dig deeper.

Since then I have discovered the root of our problem. No affair. It is the fact we take the marriage and each other for granted. Since then we have started work based on MB. As part of that I have sacrificed some of my former past-times. Like I limit the amount of sports I watch on TV and my computer usage. We do some things differently – go to the gym together instead of separately, do housework as a team to get more time together. Make sure we have time together and separately with the kids.

I am working hard on rekindling the flame. I compliment here more often, give her small gifts, and take her out to dinner without the kids. Small stuff but hopefully chipping away. She is trying her best to do the same. At the same time we have dealt with some irritating small activities that supposedly are so important. We do not need to know where each other is 24/7 – although we tend to know. We do not phone each other during the workday to chat. We do not text each other with “I love you” or send endearing e-mails. Too much sugar just gives you a tooth-ache.

Our marriage has definitely improved. A lot of that is thanks to ideas and methodology I learned here. I am sure that if I had discovered her having an affair I would have exposed, planed A and then B and sought a lot of advice and solace on this board.

Now – I know some people would be tempted to say that IF I had followed MB from the beginning I would never have reached this place in my marriage. True. Others will say that if I strictly adhere to MB principles I will get to where I want to be faster. Do they know where I want to be?

I will say this: If my wife were ever to say that any activity I do bothers her and gives me a reason (and I accept sentiments as reason) I would change that activity. It might be a compromise like not talking to a lady friend without her knowledge or presence. It might be a clean cut like never again talking to that friend. Whatever both me and my wife agree and commit to. I guess that is the essence of MB – total honesty and total commitment.

The MB principles are based on a lot of experience. They are hard-line just as AA is hard-line against alcohol. In some cases you really need to make a hard decision and follow hard-line tactics. In some I believe you can take the essence out of the teachings and apply them to your situation. This is not The Bible.

I hope you and your wife can find the middle ground I hope I have found. On some areas there is no middle ground. Sleeping around is definitely one of those. Lying, cheating and dishonesty some more. Others are not so clear but have to be discussed and found in accordance to both of you. The main thing is total honesty and commitment and adherence to the vows we took.

Post deleted by ray3

Ray - First let me say that no one can be "honest to a flaw" in a marriage. Honesty is one key ingredient in a marriage. So you being honest is a good thing.

I think what some are saying here is that a relationship with a woman friend is ok, but it can't be more important than your relationship with your wife. I'm not saying yours is, I am just saying that your wife needs to feel like she is the most imortant person in your life. Your friend focus should change when you are married and also the longer you are married. You should not have lots of single friends or girl friends. You and your wife should have couples as friends. Is Kristin married? Steady boyfriend? If so then maybe you should all do things as a couple.

Sinces your marriage has suffered a serious blow by these affairs, you and your wife need to focus on each other. Only your wife truly knows if this relationship with Kristin bothers her. If not, great. But what if your wife came to you and said she feels jealous and threatened by this friendship. Could you give up Kristin for the good of your marriage? Just something to think about.

Repairing your marriage long distance is going to be very tough. It is going to take patience and time. You seem to have a lot of anger at times which is understandable, but does not help the situation. Maybe your wife is scared of you? Maybe that is why she is not always honest with you? Again, just some things to think about.

The role of the BS is not an easy one. In my opinion, your wife needs to know that you can forgive her and work towards a better marriage than before. You complicated the process a bit by going out and having a ONS. This is considered cheating and even though you told your wife, you were still wrong. You betrayed a trust just as she did. You need to show remorse for this cheating and admit you were wrong and not justified because you were hurt by her infidelity.

Maybe you have done all those things and if so...good for you! You are on the right track!! All anyone knows on this site is what we are told, so that is what we go on. You are the one living all this so only you know what you are doing to reconcile your marriage.

Everyone here that responds to you wants to help. To possibly make a difference. You don't have to agree with them and they don't have to agree with you, but it does get you thinking...right? I know it does me!!

I hope your wife is reading here. That would be a step in the right direction!

Hey Ray,

Your post started out wanting to know what others thought about "extraordinary precautions" and to get some clarification...

You've recieved several well written replies that should have given you some insight on how other couples have applied this principal in their own M...

Your latest statement above in quotes tends to make me wonder if you really want to hear how others are applying this principal in their M, or if you just want to find people that agree with you...

If you are looking for people that only agree with you, you will miss out on some pretty good advice from some great people who have "been there/done that/& gotten several T-shirts"...

In an open forum such as this, you'll never have 100% of the people agree or disagree with you 100% of the time... Take what you like and leave what you don't like, but don't limit yourself to only those posters that "agree" with you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Semper Fi,
RIF

Ray - the problem with Kristen is that she is a distraction. Instead of realizing that you have problems communicating your needs to your wife, you used Kristen as a sounding board. It might have made you feel better, but the marriage problems were still there.

I am kind of like you. I had a habit of not confronting my WH with things, long before he cheated. I just tried to suck it up, and used the easy way out, by talking to my female friend about problems.

What I should have done was insist that WH and I discuss the lack of him meeting my needs.