Thanks Owl. She has a surgical procedure coming up in Jan, and she gives that as reason for not being able to think about our M right now. That and stress. It's not a small thing - a shunt to relieve hydrocephalus. I have a lot of empathy for her; she must feel a tremendous amount of stress with surgery coming up.

Her inability to communicate her commitments at a time when her secret cell and A#2 have just come to light has put me under tremendous stress as well. We had a pretty intense talk last night. Near-yelling or yelling, maybe even an AO or two. My mistake, I let my emotions get the best of me. I haven't had one of those in months, and she hasn't gotten angry with me for some time either.

I think she understands this may be a make-or-break thing for me. If she isn't willing to make any commitments, or if it's not important enough to her that she will respond, then we both need to know that, in order to be able to make our decisions.

I picked up a random book (Judith Meyer I think?) that said 'the battle belongs to God'. I take it to mean I am to stand fast, but give it up to God as to what to do if WW doesn't respond as I hope. Not my will, but His. Not easy to know His will though..

She's reiterated her commitments. Not really eagerly, but at least it's something. Completely committed to our M and to me, no secrets, no male friends I don't know, no flirting. That makes a world of difference. And, even though I'd asked for the commitments, still I think she would say they were of her own free will. She could have said 'no I don't have any'.

New topic: at our church's Group MC last night we were coached to ignore the details and focus on the heart. What is she feeling, what am I feeling, ... the idea seems to be that words, facts, details, events, history etc will always fail us, but that in focusing on each others feelings we will be able to make that deep connection and reform a heart-to-heart bond.

It seems kind of unnatural but we'll try it. So e.g. suppose WW says something off the mark, or factually wrong, or inconsiderate, or whatever. Rather than debating the point with her I am to look past her comment and ask her what she is feeling. This won't be easy, but I can see that it might help.

Actually, this can be quite powerful if you can truly get her to start doing it. I've got a friend on another board who used this tactic to save her marriage...by simply ensuring that she was taking care of herself and at the same time meeting her H's ENs, she found she was able to do quite a bit. And at the same time, once her H found his needs being met, he began to meet HERS for the first time in a long time....lo and behold...renewed love.

But the trick is that she's also going to have to work on reciprocating this, and it's VERY hard for a WS/FWS to successfully do this at first. As you said...it feels unnatural and fake to them. But, once you get 'back into the habit'...it can work.

Hang in there friend...we're still here for you!

Thanks Owl it's great to have you in our corner. On my part, 'hanging in there' is a good description. I suppose WW feels the same way; that she is somehow by the grace of God hanging in there with me.

Her stated desire is to put the As behind us and focus on HER needs in our relationship (Mel if you're still there you can hold the pointed comments, I'm tracking with what you are probably thinking). Although I don't have a complete picture, here's part of it; She wants to feel important to our M, and needed as a wife and mom. And she wants me to consider her heart and feelings when negotiating joint decisions.

Also she wants to get back to financial security. My being unemployed is, as others have said, a big LB for her. Both of us want me to get a job, and I'm doing a job search now.

I think there's a lot more, but it will take some time to draw it out of her.


I'll try the heart/feelings approach. And I'll hope WW will embrace it as well. More generally, I'll try again to concentrate on emotional needs. We've been through the HNHN book and The Five Love Languages book, but that was while her A#1 was still going on, and our attempts were futile.

Since we've sort of used up those two books, I doubt we could get much out of them. But I wonder if it could help to try a third book along those lines? Any recommendations for a third book?

hey wnh, how's the rollercoaster ride so far?

You sound like you've made tremendous progress in yourself from just a few months ago, even though your situation has revealed painful truths. I can sense it thorugh your posts. Keep looking forward and no matter what happens you will be much stronger going throught this.

I remember someone saying to throw out the calender when it comes to recovery...that is so true.

Stay strong my friend!

you too HTW. God bless.

I've got a suggestion for a GREAT little book that I personally credit with saving our marriage when we first started recovery.

"20 (Suprisingly Simple) Rules and Tools for a Great Marriage!" by Dr Steve Stephens

Our MC recommended it a few weeks into our real recovery...we started by reading a chapter a nite. The chapters are short...4-5 pages max...they include an example story, clear outlines on what the 'rule or tool' is...practical applications and suggestions for how to use them...and scripture and prayer to go along with it.

Chapter #15 was the hard one for us..."Make Mutual Friends". We laughed so hard on our way back from MC we nearly wrecked...she looked at me while she was driving when I named this one as I was reading the table of contents, and sheepishly said "Well, I tried!". (OM was someone she met online via online gaming...she was insistent for a long time that all 3 of us game together, wanted desperately for OM and I to be friends...so you can see the 'humor' in this comment now...it WAS funny at the time too).

Then when we read the chapter, it actually MIRRORED our own story with one spouse wanting to leave to be with someone else...

I HEARTILY recommend this book to anyone...it's small, easy to read, biblically based, and it JUST MAKES SENSE.

We got serious about recovery and spent at least 15 minutes every nite reading this book before we went to bed...it was soooo worth it.

You know that there is no way that you're going to 'put the affair behind you' for quite a while friend. I would tell her that you're willing to try, and to definitely seek an MC that understands infidelity...I was blessed with an MC who DID understand it...and while he didn't completely use MB methods, they were VERY close and he did support using a LOT of what I learned here too...and he helped my wife to understand MY reactions to all of this too. I think that your wife will need the same kind of information.

I hope all my rambling advice does help you friend...you can make it through this...it's just very very hard. But many of us KNOW how hard it is, and that's why we come here to try to help you make it through it. I feel like my 'advice' is one of the good things that came out of what we went through...maybe I can at least help someone else now. Ya know?

Yup I know what you mean. Thanks Owl. Once I understand things a bit better I'd like to do that myself. But I'm still a Freshman here, and everytime I pick up the keyboard to try to help someone else, I realize I'm not qualified to do much helping yet. Down the road a bit though..

I've really taken a beating at Church Group MC; four times out of four. The group gives 2 minutes attention to my WW's A history, then dwells for an hour on what I need to change. Three times they've told me I act like a lawyer not a lover. (and I'm not even a lawyer!) I guess I need to take it to heart, and change my behaviors that make WW feel devalued or invalidated.

Your church seems messed up. They should take YOUR CHEATING WIFE aside and talk to HER! As well as you. YOU did not have anything to do with HER choice to cheat, cheat, cheat again, wi8th more than one man that you know of, then lie to you, masturbate in cars with work buddies, drink, and act like a complete unloving HO! And she did all this within the last few weeks! GEEZE,

I am sorry you dont work, maybe you dont have the money for a good divorce. She has all the power in the relationship working and all do you think she respects you less from you not working so she does not care if she hurts you or the marriage?

Is this part of why you are still with her after she did you so bad? Because you need to live with her until you find a job? That church needs to get a group and confront her. is that not what a church is for? To bring back sinners from sinning some more?

I think your wife deserves the "Biggest Creep Award".

And what exactly are you doing that is worse than having multiple affairs? Are you beating her up? Using dope? Gambling money? Molesting the children? Kicking the dog? Those are the only things I can think of that are more destructive than serial cheating.

Are they not aware how destructive affairs are to a marriage? That her affairs are destroying your marriage? If not, perhaps it is time to get some effective counseling. If the affairs are not addressed, you are wasting your damn time. And pretending like you CAUSED them is not going to solve anything. Is this the same counseler who encouraged an entitlement mentality in your wife?

Why am I staying with her? It's not related to my absence of a job, and not related to money for D or anything else. We have savings and will be okay. The reason is that I want to do all I can to make our M work; for both of us and for our kids. And I think that's what God wants for us as well.

Party tonight at a neighbor's house. I couldn't help thinking that I was the only H there whose W had screwed other men. It's causing me a really hard time in ordinary social interactions. Man I hate this. I was having the same thing after A#1 in Aug/Sept/Oct. Starting all over again with A#2. Crud!

Of course you should feel badly. Probably half the neighbors know about your wife's escapades.

I cannot understand why this poor man is not in Plan B by now...

Stella I'm sure others at MB find your views helpful. As for me, I find them destructive and I'll just ignore them so please save your breath.

Stellakat,
This is not the first post I seen you make to WNH that is outrageously venomous! Why don't you give this guy a break and back off. He is trying to do the Godly thing and salvage a marriage that is in very deep trouble.
I'm sure WNH doesn't need your angry diatribe to HELP him(if that's what you think you are really doing)!
Get some help for your own anger issues, and let this man struggle without someone pouring salt in the wound.
I wish you all blessing,
J

Worth remembering that it's possible to block the posts of a specific poster, so that you don't see what they write. Just click on their username, and scroll down to 'Block this user's posts'.

TA

Thanks. Will do.

Big victory, I think. WW has said she will be moving back to the master bedroom. Seems like her heart grows a bit softer each week.