Z,

Read this thread.
It may help your "picker-outer" skills.

In the words of "Rusty"(Oh, that Rusty) from "Mother Rules the Roost", "alri-ti-titey".
Pretty good SCTV skit, with Martin Short as Rusty.

Hi again Pep....

bump ^^

I love it when great older threads are bumped. I really enjoyed this one. Thank you!

Bump

Great thread�thank you. The Buyer-Renter-Freeloader concept is a great way to analyze and consider relationships, partners, and potential-partners (for those who are unmarried). Not to rain on anyone�s parade here but�

I read many references to astrological signs (and their supposed significance) made by multiple posters in this thread. Perhaps they were just harmless, tongue-in-cheek banter, but for anyone who might be tempted to believe that someone�s sign (their own or their partner�s or an OP�s) is in any way explanatory or meaningful�

Astrology is a form of divination based on superstition (the spurious belief that the natural movements and positions of celestial bodies in relation to the earth affects or �fates� human activities and behaviors). Its claims and predictions CANNOT be replicated in controlled, blinded studies or experiments & its practitioners are not reproducibly accurate beyond that of random chance alone. It is no more credible or valuable to human psychology than alchemy is to chemistry.

Astrology is a pseudo-science, ladies & gentlemen.

Pseudoscience is a methodology, belief, or practice that is claimed to be scientific, or that is made to appear to be scientific, but which does not adhere to an appropriate scientific methodology, lacks supporting evidence or plausibility, or otherwise lacks scientific status. Oxford English dictionary

Astrology has no relevance to understanding ourselves or our place in the cosmos. Modern advocates of astrology cannot account for the underlying basis of astrological associations with terrestrial affairs, have no plausible explanation for its claims, and have not contributed anything of cognitive value to any field of the social sciences�

Many of the claims made about signs and personalities are vague and would fit many people under many different signs. Even professional astrologers, most of whom have nothing but disdain for sun sign astrology, can�t pick out a correct horoscope reading at better than a chance rate. Yet, astrology continues to maintain its popularity, despite the fact that there is scarcely a shred of scientific evidence in its favor�

(excerpts) http://www.skepdic.com/astrolgy.html


Beyond a silly diversion, its best to put away the horoscope and stick with actual facts.

Nice lecture!
Interesting that you chose to comment on the small talk nonsense banter FROM 2005 .... and not the actual meat of this thread.

I agree.
Astrology is just for fun.
Now what?

If you re-read my post, I did comment (very favorably) at the outset on the "meat" of this thread. I would argue that the zodiac stuff was what was superfluous and off-point.

I also was careful to exclude "small talk nonsense banter" from what followed.

Finally, bumping this excellent thread (obviously for the benefit of those who hadn't read it before & those who might want a "refresher"), clearly brings old posts--including Dr. Harley's writings--back into the present for anyone who chooses to read it. Whether they were originally made 5 years ago or 5 days ago, is irrelevant...and there were multiple references made by multiple posters to nonsensical astrological associations that have no bearing or predictive value on the real life issues discussed on this site.

I apologize if I offended you.

BTW, I am "fiercly loyal" as well...and I am a scorpio.

I was annoyed, not offended.
But, I'm over it now.

WOW, thanx Pep. The hardest part for me is to realize that to be in a great Plan B, I have to become a RENTER. I know that I have and my WH have had BUYER personalities in the past, it hurts to realize that I HAVE to change what MY values and beliefs are. I have to be OKAY with DIVORCE. My stomach sinks just typing those words and I am still wearing my wedding ring. I get a small panic attack when I think about taking it off. I get MAD at people when they refer to my WH as my "ex." I KNOW that at some point, if WH doesn't come back to the marriage, I WILL have to divorce. I know this is a POSSIBLE outcome. This is a PROBABLE outcome based on a LTA and separation due to Plan B. My HEAD gets this, my heart WON'T let go. Not YET.

Ok, I'm wondering where I fall in all this????

I was comitted to this marriage even though I was very unhappy. I wanted things to be better, but nothing change....I would never have cheated; I promised to love him for life even though I was not doing the best job. What was I? A buyer or a renter. I can see WH as renter because of his contant starting and stopping of everything in his life..IE

First Marriage
Second Marriage
Army (other than honorable discharge)
Starting a church
STarting a business
Law School
Marriage number three...me
golf
hunting
fishing

Everything started and when it lost it's fizzle, he was off to the next venture.

I guess he was a renter from the beginning. I'm confused about myself because I thought sacrifice was part of marriage.

I would take care of kids every weekend so he could play fishing and hunting....sacrifice
I worked while he tried everything to fill his holes....sacrifice
He was the heavy on discipline...and I buried head in sand. sacrifice?

I feel I sacrificed constantly in this marriage which definitely led to resentment...so maybe he will never come back since he was probably a renter from the beginning instead of a buyer.

I agree with poja but I don't see how a marriage never has sacrifice. I've really confused myself too.

No one said a marriage "never" has sacrifice.

But, sacrifice must be recognized as a hindrance to POJA.
The POINT is to minimize sacrifice and to learn to POJA instead of sacrifice.

Very few people are BUYERS right off the bat.
Most of us think/assume that sacrifice is a good thing in a marriage.
Most of us are renters initially.

I don't understand why you are beating yourself up about this.
The whole point is to learn and grow and change, not to drive ourselves crazy with the past mistakes we made before we knew better.

I'm not trying to beat myself up....just understand. The whole post is quite analytical, so I was trying to look at my own situation in the same way. I guess I was trying to decide which place I was in. I'll just keep reading...thanks

Great Thread - Should be added to notable threads

Glad you posted on here, PI, as I would have never seen this thread. It's exactly what I needed in regards to some thoughts/questions I've had recently!

GREAT thread!

Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders is by far an amazing book. I recommend everyone to read it especially if you still have a wayward in your life.

Harley is a very smart man!