We have been married 17.5 years, I am retired also 24.5years. I have contacted a lawyer and gained valuable insight.

Thank you for providing another way of looking at it. You have given me a new insight. I will try to keep perspective.

Thank you again.

Eagle - Sounds very promising, and you have some of the best here - JL and Mel. I hope you can realize that you are wasting your time to try to reason with her right now. She is in the fog still, and it will only make her angry.

When she pushes your buttons, come here for support. You can vent and yell here, and we will understand.

Thank you Believer, thank you.

I finished read LBs last night and am 1/3 through HNHN. Talked about LBs with WW she is going to start reading it tonight, I started telling her about what i read and she seemed interested, discussed 1-3 LBs, my problem area. Discussed suggested improvements, she seemed interested again, thought it would help. She is worried I'm only doing it for her, not myself, told her I'm doing it to improve self, to improve taking care of our children, and to show her I am serious about saving M. She accepted that and continued to talk about kids etc... All in all a pretty good discussion. I asked if she could set aside an hour or so each day to read, then call to discuss what we have read, she said OK and will read at 7PM call at 8PM to discuss. Starting with LB then to HNHN, then SAA.
More later as things progress.

Eagle, I'm an FWW, and this part of your post kind of struck me:


Hindsight is always 20/20, but instead of pounding her with statements about how terrible her actions are, a better Plan A answer might have been something like, "I want more than anything for us to rebuild our marriage and be the family we've always dreamed of, and need support from friends like (adopted Grandma)."

As an FWW, the last thing I needed to hear from my BH was how hurtful my actions were. I was completely aware of that. Rather, I needed some inkling that staying in my M would be the best course of action. As Melody Lane and others have said, you need to draw her back, not push her away.

Try to remember what made you fall in love to begin with and try to recapture times like that. Maybe get a sitter and do something special as a couple when she's home for T-giving (remember dating?). One of my turning points was being at home alone one night (I'd messed up on NC, H discovered it and took off), and picking up an old photo album. Lookign at the photos, it dawned on me that we'd had some pretty good times over the years, and there I was thinking about throwing it all out the window for (what turned out to be) a cheap thrill.

Hang in there, Eagle, but instead of LBing, Plan A like crazy. Make yourself look like the better choice.

Eagle15- I am a FWW, and coming to this site helped me so so much.
The advice of some BS and FWWs made me see the light and come out of the fog faster. You should really encourage your wife to come and post.
She will get lots of 2X4s, but they are need it to make her snap back to reality.

Myrta

GBH and Myrta,

Thank you I will Plan A like a mad man and GBH I appreciate the great words like these.
"I want more than anything for us to rebuild our marriage and be the family we've always dreamed of, and need support from friends like (adopted Grandma)."

I will move forward and try to be a better Plan A guy.

Thank you, I appreciate all the great advice everyone has provided, please continue.

Had pretty god conversation yesterday evening. She talked about work and friends. All was good. She agreed to set aside time to read LB and HNHN and discuss the areas at the end of each chapter. Thought all was going well, then she went off about having to keep me informed of her whereabouts and my anxiety when she is 15 mins or more late contacting me. She want a "longer leash" needs more slack. I told her that if she would call and let me know she was going to be late or something, a common courtesy, I would have less anxiety. She tried to goad me into a fight, LB'd me all over the place, I hung in there and said I thought she was not taking my feelings into account. I said when times were good and up to D-Day I always let her know if I was going to be late, it is a respect and caring concern thing, I never wanted her to worry. She acknowledged that, but said she didn't like accounting for her time and I needed to trust her, I said I would like to, but in light of all that has gone down recently it would be ahrd to trust her. Earning trust would take time and effort and the effrot is keeping me informed and showing care and respect by letting me know if she was going to be late. She grudgingly accepted that but wasn't happy about it. I asked her if she understood, she said yes, but didn't like it. I said I'm sorry you don't like it, but that's how you can earn my trust back. She then went on a tangent about not wanting to be with me and why couldn't I understand that, why do I want her after all that's happened, I said you are worthy of my love and you and our marriage and our family is worth fighting for, I will notive up or back down from this fight. She didn't have anything else to say about that.

This morning she groused alittle about keeping track of her time, but offered up her schedule for the day and agreed to call if anything changed. We ahd a pretty good conversation.

She is still coming at Thanksgiving, but wants to focus on our children, I said that's fine, but I thought we needed to try to normalize our relationship to pre D-Day, maybe back to where she thought things were good, she said she would try. I said we would also need to try to meet each others ENs, she said she didn't think going through the motions would help, I said it couldn't hurt, she might even like it, it might even relieve some of the stress and tension she was feeling last weekend. She said she would try, but didn't think going through the motions would help if she was feeling nothing for me and didn't want to be with me, I said please just give it a try. She said OK. I also asked her to help me with LBs, a big concern of hers, she said she would. I mentioned the LB log to her and that if I started to LB in her eyes she needed to document so we could discuss it later and also let me nkow she thought I was LBing and to stop. I said I would and she agreed to try that as well. Does this seem like progress at all? I thought it was a step in the right direction. I also said I am confident we can work this out, said she was worthy of the hard work and effort to work this out, but I think she still hopes and thinks the OM is patiently waiting for her. A very hard pill to swallow, but I keep trying.

Thank you all for your advice and support, I don;t know what I would do without your help. I am so glad I found this site.

Eagle... interesting that the phrase "going through the motions" came up a couple times there.

That is EXACTLY how I felt early in recovery and while still in WD... like I was "going through the motions." The term "fake it till you make it" also comes to mind. I know that sounds kinda negative, but work with me here.

Love is a choice... you choose to love someone. At first, while hard into WD and fresh into NC, I was still pretty foggy and the dopey brain chemicals from the A were still lingering. Loving my H felt kind of ... unnatural. I felt smothered. But as time wore on, and I got more NC time behind me, the fog started to clear more, the brain chemicals slowly went bye-bye, and it got easier to feel more loving toward my H.

Mind you, we haven't been without setbacks. There are still verbal barbs and LBs, but at a little over one year NC, I am feeling a heck of a lot better today than I felt last year at this time.

Keep in mind the turnaround won't happen overnight... for me, I think I hit rock bottom (in terms of guilt) at about the six-month NC mark. Not sure why it took that long, but that's when it hit. There were some other stresses going on at that time as well, so maybe my feeble little mind decided to combine them into one big THUMP!

So stay the course, avoid the LBs (good convo w/W, BTW!), don't smother her, but do all you can to make yourself look like the better choice. Good luck!

Do you think the normalization is a good thing? She still want to keep major distance, but will hold my hand accept kisses and hugs, would let me hold her at night, no SF, I respected that. I believe she still has high hopes that OM is patiently waiting. She does say she is trying though and sometimes it appears that she is others appears she is just going through the motions. I'll post more as things progress.

Thank you for you advice and support I certainly need it.

She also says I desperately need her and thinks I can't help myself in needing her. I just respond OK.

She has also stated that she thinks I've taken the bull by the horns and am working this too hard, but understands that is my nature and isn't upset by it just wanted me to know. I said our marriage, children, and she was worth the effort and I would not give up. She is still down on herself, but continues to state she wants a new life with OM. I'm hanging in there and when she talks like that I usually say I understand that, but I still won't give up on you, us, or our children. She doesn't understand that but accepts it, sometimes asks why? I always say she is worth the fight.

I have finished reading LB and HNHN will be starting SAA this evening. WW has gotten to pg 15 in LB and is going to read for an hour or so this evening, hopefully she will want to discuss the points at the end of CH1. I will keep posting and working Plan A. She still refuses the NC letter, but is keeping me informed of her movements, NC since 12 Oct (email I have a copy of), stioll committed to retiring her in Al (only for the kids for now), talking and having conversations, still tells me though that she doesn't want me. I have sent in the request for MC with the Harleys, waiting for a confirmation. Mentioned it to her today, she said we didn't talk about that I said sorry we did, you were non commital, so I requested it for me, if you want to be there fine, if not fine, your call, but I will follow through with the appt either way for me. So the story goes. I also sent an email about why I still tell her that I love her.

"When I say I love you what I mean is I remember with loving feelings who you were and who I was. I remember who we were. I remember the good times. I remember the way it used to be. I remember what it was like to love and be there for each other. I miss that. I love those memories and maybe, that's all they are, but they still warm my heart and make me feel good inside."

She thanked me for it and said she liked it. I just signed the email Chuck, no ILY got her attention, but still foggy. We shall see.

Should I have her read SAA first??? I'm about half through and it is a real eye opener. Comments???

Talked last night, she is reading SAA, she was upset about giving her daily schedule and checking in. I said the schedule should not be a problem, if you're going to be late please give a courtesy call, show a little respect and concern for my feelings. She said OK not a problem, no LBs rest of conversation went well, had to walk her throught putting antifreeze in her suburban, she was appreciative and grateful for that. Rest of evening was good conversation about kids, work, our house in Fl was rented yesterday (very good news), discussed the Thanksgiving trip. Decent evening.
This morning she called to talk to the kids, talked to me about her Physical training, gave me her schedule, very pleasant conversation. Seems like less fog this AM.

Eagle, her resistance to the idea of earning trust is a little disturbing to me. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide. Keep your ears peeled on that one and stand your ground.

Your response to her complaints about trusting were AWESOME! You conveyed the appropriate message without lovebusting. Just keep up the good work, Eagle, you are doing great.

Thank you ML I appreciate it. I am scheduled with Jennifer on 24 Nov @ 7PM. I aske WW if she wanted to participate, she said we'll see. Initially when I told her I was going to schedule she said you didn't ask me, I said we discussed and you were non-commital on it so I am doing this for me, if you want to participate OK, if not OK, your call. She is reading SAA, albeit very slowly, last night we discussed my committment to making M work and how important it is to me for her to read, an I was getting a dragging your feet felling from her, so she committed to 7PM read minimum 1hr, discuss if she wanted after. I said if you don't want to read it no problem, just let me know when you do, she said I will read. Earlier when she was complaining about phone calls I said I would try to get a handle on my anxiety and try to not call, she immediately went into orbit accusing me of swinging the pendulum to the extreme, I had to stop her and remind her that she was shouting me down and talking over me please let me finish before you go into orbit. I sai I would only call if I couldn't handle it, she immediately calmed down and appologized for jumping all over me. All went well after that.
She still refuses to come to this site. She is at the DR getting checked for STDs and said depending on how she feels maybe ask about ADs, I told her that might be a good idea, my ADs do help to take the edge off of things.
I asked her to please let her guard down a little and bring down the defenses so we can start working the ENs, she filled out the LB and EN Qs last weekend. Conv was #1, others were OK by her LBs 1,2,3 were biggies and I am working those trying to make her feel safe and comfortable. She has stated that she doesn't feel like our new house is home, I asked her to help me decorate ar Thanksgiving so she can put her mark on it. She agreed to help and has started thinking about ideas for decorating. On En Q stated SF was great before A, had all she needed, but now wants 0 from me, when we discussed she said until she felt comfortable with my self improvements and in our house she didn't know. All other areas we good, no major complaints. Keeping up with Plan A, but still no NC letter.

Talked last night, asked her about a statement she made about the roles have been reversed. She says she is now the one in charge the strong one and I'm always saying I'm sorry, asked me how it felt, I said not good and reminded her that I almost always appologized for my transgressions, she snapped back "Not Always", and I said yes that's what I said almost always, not always. she accepted that. I asked her if I had ever hurt her as bad as she is hurting me and if I had ever done anything as bad as this to her, she said no, I asked if she would ever be able to forgive the hurt iA caused her with LBs and she said I don't know, maybe. We had a good conversation about her day and mine after that. I talked about the kids, then she talked to them, we talked again and she said to back off with the flowers and cards. I've sent a card about every other day, but she only checks mail once a week so she saw it as too much. So I'm backing off on the cards. Any suggestions? Is this good or bad?

I sent her some links to MB yesterday she said she would look at them and she is reading SAA, up to page 34. I will ask her again if she would like to post here. So far she has seemed slightly interested, but doesn't want an account yet. I'll keep you updated as things progress.

Eagle, I think it is a good idea to back off on the cards, flowers and calls. Too much of that can push away a detached person. Let her come to you. If you are chasing her, she will run.


Ouch. What can you do to change this perception? Are you apologizing too much? It may seem out of whack for you to apologize when she is the one who had the affair. Are you coming across as needy or clingy? I would think about that, Eagle, and if you are, do your best to change that pronto.

We talked this morning, all went pretty well. She gave me her schedule and said she would call sometime today. I asked about still hating me she said I don't like the word hate, but I'm still very mad at you. I said OK I understand is there anything I can do to make up for it? She said not right now, we talked about her plans for the day and I asked her to read a couple of emails I sent yesterday, came from here, one about love and the other about forgiving. I said I thought these might help ease her mind and help her forgive herself, she is still down on herself about all this. We discussed plans for Thanksgiving dinner, she said she really loved banana pudding, you know with the vanilla wafers and banana slices, I said well we can make some for Thanksgiving dinner, she said I don't now we'll see. We thentalked about different foods our parents cooked when we were growing up, a lot of similarities there, I got her to laugh a couple of times which was good, I said I love to hear you laugh it's music to my ears, she just said Oh.
That's about it for now I'll post more as the story progresses.