Will Having MNy WW Look At This Site Help? I have read Suzet's thread about "Fog and Withdrawl" and she recommended it, but would like some other opinions. WW seems to be in the fog and deep withdrawl. Says she misses OP terribly and can't stand it some days, cries for hours. WW still won't talk other than to say she wants to be with OP and end marriage, but next time we talk she wants to work on marriage, not real enthusiastic, but says she wants to.

If she is willing to come here & read, I highly suggest it. I am sure there are some WS on here that would post to her. Maybe someone can direct you to some good threads. Also there is a link somewhere for a WS recovery tool kit. That would be very helpful for her to read.

Good Luck & hang in there!!!

Kimberly

Kimberly,

Thank you. I will show this site to her Friday. She is coming here to visit for the weekend.

She looked at the site, but doesn't want to join, thinks it won't help. She is still under the Military No Contact, but thinks that OM will be waiting when she retires. She states that she can find happiness only with OM, is very happy with kids, but can't seem to find any happiness with me. Refuses to do a NC letter, but will be returning here at Thanksgiving for 2 weeks, and we will go to OKC for Christmas until 3 Jan. Went to MC yesterday, he thinks we can make it work, but did not help with NC letter, stated that when I made her call the OM on D-Day should be sufficient. She still holds strong emotional ties and refuses to believe there is a GF in the OMs life. They have discussed a future together, and she will not entertain the idea of coming here to be locally available to the kids. Says she will give up anything for the kids, but when asked does that mean the OM as well the answer is NO. Very confused about all of this. Asked her to dig deep and look deep into her heart to try to find a small ember that we can fan to small flame, defenses go up, ask her to do same to find smallest bit of happiness, something we can build on, defenses go up and she refuses. Don't know what to do at this point, but still trying to hang in there. She says she doesn't want me to touch her, but is willing to hold hands, kiss, sleep in same bed and cuddle, even though she doesn't want to she is trying to. All very confusing. Thoughts, Comments?

EAgle, she is exhibiting all the very normal traits of a person who is withdrawing from an affair. Your job is to do your best to meet her needs and avoid lovebusters. Are you certain that she has ended contact with the OM?

Have you read the Harley books, Surviving an Affair and His Needs, Her Needs?

While these forums are a great support system, there is no substitute for contacting an experienced professional like Steve Harley or his sister Dr Jennifer Harley Chalmers. Have you considered contacting them?

TMCM

I just recieved the books in the mail, but haven't read them yet, I bought a copy for her also so we can both read them and hopefully institute a plan for recovery aasell as a stronger plan A.

I believe she has not had contact, her career and retirement is at stake.

I plan on trying for an appt over the phone next week and a follow up when she is here at Thanksgiving. I have also contacted her chaplain, he is her counselor, and asked if he can find out from the OM if it is indeed over or is he waiting for her retirement. I will let you know as soon as I hear anyhting.

Eagle, that is excellent that you got the books; please read them as fast as you can. Be careful about suggesting them to your W. She may be quite resistant to the idea of being educated.

Do you think the OM would be honest with the chaplain about contact? I wouldn't rely too much on his honesty.

When she is home for Thanksgiving, you can probably find out pretty quickly if contact has truly ended if you prepare yourself by installing some spy detectors on the expected mode of commmunication.

Does she have a cell phone?

A personal computer?

How does she communicate with OM NOW?

How will she communicate with him at home, if she does?

How did you find out about the affair?

She is willing to read and do the exercises with me, she has a cell, bill comes here, laptop but doesn't use it much, only way to com with OM I know of would be at work or off base somewhere in person, but that would jepordise her career and retirement, she says she will not do that.

This is how I found out.

Yes I have read everything on the website and ordered the books, they should be here today. The first thing I found was Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It pretty much covers everything, alot like Dr. Harley.

I haven't started a Plan A yet, she is living in OK City, stationed at Tinker AFB, I am in Huntsville, Al, we are waiting for her retirement 1 Feb 06. Makes it hard to work as she is in another state and the phone is the only contact.

I'm not sure she is set on divorce, but she says she loves this guy, he's her soul mate, and she wants to be with him. The AF has put out a No Contact Order to all three of us, if she or I contact him she will be charged with disobeying a direct order, same if he contacts either of us.
She did call after confessing (4hrs later and very reluctantly) and left a message in his answering machine while I was there stating I knew about the A and there would be no contact while she worked on her marriage. She is definitely going through withdrawl and gets very moody sometimes.

I will have her look at Judith Wallerstein's book it may help. She is in counseling with the base chaplain, one a week, she keeps me informed of her whereabouts, and has promised she will not have contact to keep from ruining her career. She wants to stay in OKC, but is going through the motions to move here. One of my greatest fears is she will retire and stay in OKC and won't tell me or the kids until the day she retires.

I am in counseling, she will be here this weekend and is willing to meet with my counselor, we have an appt Friday.

The A started Aug 26, I have the emails etc... She has slept with him twice and has determined she is madly in love. Very confusing as she has always despised people who do this kind of thing.

I found out about it when the kids and I drove out for her birthday to surprise her. We waited outside the base hospital for her to get off work, when she came out and saw me the look I got chilled me to the bone and scared the H out of me. She was furious. Her greeting to the kids was very cool, not cold. She was very distant, when we went to bed that night she pulled away, never did that before, worried me. the next morning after a sleepless night, as she was leaving for work she told me I Love You, but I am not in Love with you. Then went to work, I was stunned. I started looking around and in a basket on the counter were emails of an inappropriate nature between her and the OM. I called her at work and told her she needed to come right home as there is now a family emergency. She stonewalled, I insisted and told her not to BS me, after 24.5 yrs in the AF I knew she could leave for this at anytime. She came home around 10:15AM denied breaking her wedding vows all day, finally around 11:00PM she asked what if she had an affair, I told her we would work through it, she then fessed up, but didn't go into many details. The next morning I called her first sgt and the chaplain. the chaplain came over and we talked for about 3 hrs. Things improved a little, but I think the withdrawl is really getting to her, I sked her to call me if it got too bad and I would talk to her or fly out there whichever would make her happy and help her get over the hump.

She did volunteer to keep me informed of her whereabouts, she says she wants to work on the marriage, but then says she really wants to be with OM, this keeps me in a knot.

We have discussed my faults in the marriage, and I have tried to show her I have grown and am more in control of my emotions. She was very surprised I did not explode about the A and wanted to work it out. She was also surprised I didn't want to ruin her career.

We both know this is going to be a very long road, but I'm not really getting a warm fuzzy about her being comitted to working it out. That scares me. I don't want my kids shuttling back and forth, but she may push the issue. I just don't know, when I ask her about things the defenses go up and all I get is "FINE I won't do that anymore or I won't bring that up again" I haven't been giving LBs, I have tried very hard to be calm and reasuring, btu am not getting much reassurance back. This is all very confusing, but I'm trying to disarm her with kindness. I hope it works. I guess we have partially started a Plan A, but haven't completed it yet.

Because she has refused to do a NC I believe she is hoping he will be there when she retires. I don't think he will unless it is to cheat on whoever his GF is. She was pretty mad when I was talking to him D-Day +1. I am also bound by the NC the Air force has put in place, so I can't contact either. That is why I've made the request to the chaplain. I hope he can do something, and I hope the truth comes out.

Thank you,

EAgle, the bad thing about your situation is that you are living apart. That probably contributed to the conditions that led to the affair and will make recovery doubly hard. You will have to settle for a doing a Plan A long distance until she retires. If she is truly not in contact with the OM, then you have a chance to fill that void as she withdraws, but only to a small degree since you can't physically be together.

When you are together over Thanksgiving, you will have a good opportunity to meet her needs and hopefully, begin attracting her back. That means it is imperative that you understand the emotional needs concept and have a strategy to capitalize on this in the short window that she is home. You need to find out what her top emotional needs are and think of creative ways to fulfill them. Right now she is mostly hostile towards you for busting up her affair, but sanity should start coming back as she withdraws.

All of the things she is saying are textbook WS babble that we hear on here every day. It is a result of losing your mind to an addiction. So don't let it alarm you. Just remind yourself that you are dealing with an addict, similar to a crack head, who is angry because she just lost her fix.

But, you are most definitely on the right track. There is much hope if you can quickly educate yourself and learn to attract her back. So get reading, my friend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I will get reading right away. Right now she is completeing the EN questionaire and has already completed the LB questionaire. I have done same and am awaiting her responses.

Thank you for the encouraging words. I will definitely try to capitalize on the ENs during Thanksgiving.

She has stated that as the weeks go by she wants to contact and misses OM more and more, is that normal as well?

Thank you again

That is all part and parcel of withdrawal. However, the more time passes, the less and less she will think of him until she rarely thinks of him. When his influence is gone, she will start to see the affair in a different light. She will begin to see it in a more realistic light and will see how sleazy she looks through the eyes of others.

That is very promising that she is willing to take the EN questionaire! When you get it back, come here and ask for help in getting ideas on how to meet her needs. [I am terrible in this area, but others here are very creative]

Do you realize that you saved your marriage by doing this?

MelodyLane,

Thank you for the kind words. I was trying to avoid LBs and trying to save my marriage. Hopfulle it will work. On the ENs Primary #1 was conversation, others were met, the biggie was LBs top 3 killed me. I will work those and let you know. Went to see DOOM, she said she had a good time, but I still can't make her happy like OM. Still trying.

Do you have any ideas, I thought I would have been slayn on the ENs and LBs, but the LBs were the major problem, 1 Selfish Demands, 2 Disrespctful judgements, 3 angry outbursts, all others were rated not bad. I just don't know. I asked if the En conversation was all she thought I needed to work on she said yeah, but let me get back to ya on that, so she wants to review her answers. I believe through our conversation about the Ens and LBs she seemed sincere and very thoughtful with her answers. She still has doubts even though she admits I have improved. I don't know, but I will still keep trying.

Thnak you again

Well last night it all came to a head. She kept telling me how she would sacrifice everything for the kids, I called her on it and asked even the OM, stopped her cold. I told her that I thought that was contradictory, I am concerned about our childrens welfare and would not stand for them to be hurt again if she decides to retire in OKC. The children wholeheartedly believe that she is coming home on 1 Feb, I am not so sure and didn't have the heart to tell them that. Soooo we discussed it last night, she kept getting up and leaving the room, on the 3rd time I had had enough and told her she needed to stay and talk through this. She came back and we talked, I busted the top 3 LBs, I demanded an answer on the retirement, while I didn't shout I was using a very stern voice, not loud, but not taking any more crap, and I went over some very basic truths about what she has done and how it affected the family. She didn't like what I said, but admitted it was the truth, said she was sorry. She comitted to coming here on 1 Feb to try and work on the marriage and be here for the kids, mainly for the kids. She promised them this morning she would come home 1 Feb, live in our house, and be here to support them. She then told me that she now hates me, something she didn't want to happen, and I drove her to it, that I haven't changed, and she was right to be wary. She feels like she has caved in to my demands yet again. I told her she should look at it as an opportunity to right a wrong and turn something very bad and negative into a positive learning experience for all of us, especially the kids. She has the opportunity to set a shinning example, please don't throw that away. Use this as a chance to help the children heal from the hurt you have caused. I just couldn't understand why, after 3.5 years away, she can say the children would be better off if we stayed seperated, if you could have seen the kids while she was home you would immediately recognize how starved they are for her presence and attention. She couldn't see it, all she can see is her fantasy. I'm still trying, still working, will not give up yet. She is still coming for Thanksgiving, for 2 weeks, and we are going to go there for Christmas. Oh, I also exposed the affair to one of our dear friends, an older lady, we adopted as our grandma, she used to live next door to us in Fl. That really pissed her off and she wanted to know why I did it, I told her that I thought she needed to hear from someone else how destructive and just plain wrong her actions have been. She sees it as I'm trying to get more people on my team. I just don't know, the FOG is very thick.

Thank you for listening.

Eagle, I am telling you, the key to all this is attracting her back. This is your only shot to attract her back. Don't fight with her, don't make any demands, don't guit her, concentrate on being more attractive than the OM. In every interaction, ask yourself if you look better or worse than the OM.

Withhold all judgements. If she talks about how miserable you have made her all these years, don't disagree! Go along with her and tell her you are sorry and are willing to do what it takes to repair the damage.

Eagle, although this may all seem galling and unjust, let me point out a very important factor that you are missing: you are dealing with an ADDICT who isstill under the influence of her drug. You MUST understand this point. You cannot reason with an insane person. Any attempt to guilt her or make demands will only push her away. Do you understand? You MUST understand this point.

Now, if you can handle this carefully while she is withdrawing from the OM, you will have a chance because once she withdraws she will be restored to sanity.

So these are the 2 points that you MUST understand completely:

1. She is an addict under the influence of her "drug" [affair] - You CANNOT REASON with her!

2. As she withdraws, she will return to sanity and she will draw to you if you don't push her away.

MelodyLane,

Thank you for your insight. I will try to get a grip on this. Last night she mashed my buttons and then would walk away, it was more than I could handle. I will redouble my efforts to keep a cool head. I am trying very hard not to argue, but make my point in a non-threatening way. I'm still trying and now that I know what her Ens are as well as the LBs that really light her fuse I will try to make the ENs work for me and avoid LBs at all cost.

Thank you again for providing me with the insight and experience to get through this.

Eagle, believe me, I know it is hard not to react. But keep this in mind: she will attempt to bait you into a fight because she can use your anger to justify her affair. Do you see that? She will use your own reaction as ammunition against you.

When you don't react in anger to her crazy talk, it confuses her because then she cannot make YOU the bad guy. And as long as you are the bad guy, she doesn't have to look at herself.

Yes I see that now, I sent an email to our chaplain and stated that I felt like I was the bad guy, seeing it on your post really drives it home. I will continue to keep a cool head.

Thank you so much.

Eagle,

Permit me to rephrase what you are being told. Have you ever taken martial arts? What you need to do is consider this situation in this light. You cannot attack, you cannot demand, you cannot force decisions out of her. What you do is state your boundaries, you let her use her anger, and eventually guilt to illustrate to her HER actions. You won't have to do anything by protect your children, take good care of them, and reverse babble with her.

YOu did an excellent job of that by pointing out she would NOT do ANYTHING for her kids. Leave it at that and let it fester within her and her relationship. You be the ideal father, and you be a good and sensitive husband.

You must come to understand you cannot change her mind, you cannot convince her, you cannot reason with her, because she is addicted to a fantasy. All you can control is your actions, your words, your perspective.

I don't know how long you two have been married, but I would also remind you that you are entitled to a fraction of her retirement, up to a half in case of divorce. Don't threaten this, but be aware of it. Protect yourself and see a lawyer so that you know what you need to do to maintain custody of the children. They don't need to be around the OM.

Use her energy to defeat this, don't you provide fuel for the fire with LB's.

God Bless,

JL