We had good conv last night after she read ch 7 of SAA said she thought it would work, had good conv with kids, thought all was well. Talked this morning very upbeat then she said she couldn't put 100% into marriage still loves OM, and wants to be with OM. I said I understand, but keep trying to work on M. Said she would, but not 100%. She is still reading SAA and will start LB when finished.

Is this still Fog?

Still waiting for PI call. Contacted AllState Investigations.

More to follow.

Yes that is fog. Good job on contacting the PI!

Any recommendations for a PI?

I wish I could help in that regard, but unfortunately I have no experience there. Maybe some others will chime in here.

Big LB, sent this in an email as food for thought.

James 5:19-20
My dear brothers and sisters, if anyone among you wanders away from the truth and is brought back again, you can be sure that the one who brings that person back will save that sinner from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins.

got this back from chaplain.

I have looked into this verse, and you can also by going to
www.crosswalk.com. You can look at dated contextual analysis of the context
of this Scripture there as well.

My dear brothers and sisters, if anyone among you wanders away from the truth and is brought back again, you can be sure that the one who brings that person back will save that sinner from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins.

Because I was asked what I thought by WW on this Scripture, I am writing to give my opinions on what I think God is saying here.

1. The "truth" spoken of here is, that Jesus Christ is God's Son, sent to save people from sin through faith in Him. The "sinner" spoken of here is one who has denied Christ. This is not to be used to point a finger at
someone who has made mistakes. Which is my feeling, is the context it is presently being used.

2. Though, there is a general principle of applicability here. The idea of assisting someone by bringing them back, who has wandered away from
faith is a tremendous task. If done within the context of self, and not God, is the wrong reason. Generalizing to help someone out of love from falling into sin, is a basic foundation of love - ask any parent. Why do we punish children? - to keep them from later folly by teaching them certain decisions/behaviors have negative consequences.

3. The larger chapter is about: rich people have difficulty with faith, suffering for the faith, keeping your oaths, sickness, earnest prayers, and the "truth." In the larger context of this Scripture, it simply is not
addressing infidelity issues.

I think this is yet another attempt to demonize WW - which I don't think will help your cause. My advice is to continue working on what you discovered about your own contributions that lent the marital relationship to its present state.

Another Scripture comes to mind, "Why do
you point out the speck in your brother's eye, when you have a plank in your own?"

I am saddened that you both find yourself in your present marital state. But could'ves and should'ves don't really matter now. It really matters now of how you both look to God for forgiveness, and what you allow Him to do
within your situation(s). Finger-pointing and trying to fix each other isn't well received right now; self-responsibility and moving forward ought be the goal.

Again, I apologize for the "up-front" nature of this letter. I think that by claiming that "I have the power to bring someone from sin" is a self-righteous folly. I only have power over me. I can try to control
someone else, but they have to relinquish their own personal control for this to happen - otherwise I'm just control flappin in the wind. It is my intent by being "up-front" to help avoid some of the "flappin" by both of
you.

My prayers still go up for you both and your kids regularly.

and here is my response.

I didn't send this as a finger in the eye or as punishment, I saw it and thought it might help. I am not pointing fingers or trying to demonize WW. I just thought it might help. I will cease and desist with anything I think is of interest until I ahve asked her if she would like to see it. Again I in no way shape form or fashion was trying to demonize, punish or finger point.

I have prayed for God to take this situation under his control and guidance and provide his solution. I have put it in his hands.

WW,

I'm sorry you saw it that way, that was not my intention at all. I just thought you might like to see it.

Comments? Help?

Had good session with Jennifer last night, discussed with WW and all was pretty good. Good conv WW seemed pleasant and upbeat. Jennifer had a lot of insight and provided tools to assist in getting over LBs. If only WW would talk to Jennifer on 24th we could be moving forward.

EAgle, I am so glad you counseled with Jennifer! Did your WW talk to her too? How did she react to her?

WW is in OKC right now, didn't talk to her last night. I have another counseling session scheduled for 24 Nov, while she is here, and hopefully she will talk to Jennifer then. She is thinking about it and Jennifer would like to talk to her, but it's her decision, I can't make her talk.

Talking to Jennifer was a great help, I was having a bad day yesterday and it got worse around 4:30, my sister is in the hospital with a blood clot in one of her lungs, should be out Monday.

Pi was too expensive and said couldn't do much unless I was prepared to spend BIG BUCKS, so exposing OM GF will probably not occur. Oh well some days you win some days you lose, most days you break even.

Well had good conv last night, then half way through she started to put up defenses. Very strange. At the begining of conv she was upbeat seemed happy talking and telling me what was going on sharing her self, etc... then as the conv progressed, no LBs from me just encouragement and positive comments, she started getting defensive and shutting down. Not sure what this means, but seemed fog lifted for a while, then came in very heavy.

This morning when the kids called her before she left for work all seemed normal again, after 10 minutes, 5 talking to me she changed again, went on the defensive, not sure why, just normal conv about kids and upcoming Thanksgiving trip, planning menu, etc... It seems very apparent fog moves in and out randomly.

I'm hoping that she will complete the LBIJ for Jennifer and want to talk Thursday evening during my session, she said she is still thinking about it, and has until Tuesday to decide.

More as things progress or regress.

Who Knows? Only the Fog Knows for sure.

Talked last night and this morning, good conv, she's letting me know her schedule and calling if there are changes as well as when she comes and goes. conv is light and pleasant, no LBs on my part, sometimes a lot on hers. NC still in effect, just wish she would do an NC letter. What a gift that would be to me!

Both of us are looking forward to Thanksgiving and cooking together, something we always enjoyed.

Kids are doing well, some bad days for DD, but mostly good.

Going shopping today for lst of Thanksgiving stuff.

All seems to be going well, for now.

Hopefully she will want to talk to Jennifer Thurs evening.

Thats too bad about the PI, but the chances are very strong that your W will find out this guy is a player who is just using her. That will effectively kill this affair.

In the meantime, just keep doing what you are doing. As you can see, her moods go up and down, up and down, and that is a normal phase of withdrawal. Just stick with it and keep up the good work. She will come around!

Yea, that fog is a doozy.

U sound grounded and stable. That's good. Isn't it weird how they go in and out of those stages? It is even creepier when they morph right in front of your eyes. I watched my WS do that. His eyes even glazed over. Is that weird or what?!?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

L.

ML & Orchid,

Thanks for the kind words, it really helps keep my morale up.
This evening she was looking for something to simulate snow on a 4X8 Piece of plywood, a Christmas card, most bases ahve each squadron prepare a card and they put them up by the front gate so everyone can see them. A base wide competition for best card, Sq gets money from MWR for their Christmas Party. She couldn't find anything and called from Hobby Lobby, I told her to get cotton or batting, stretch it prettty thin, use spray glue to attach it and then spray with clear coat to seal and protect from weather. She didn't think it would work at first then looked at it in the store, decided it was a good idea. She was very happy and is going to call tomorrow so I can help her out over the phone. Apparently I am good for more than sticking daggers into. I will post more as events unfold.

She is flying in Tuesday evening, MC Wednesday morning, rest of day with kids. She is looking forward to cooking Thanksgiving with me, kids want to help and learn. Should be a good couple of weeks. She stated last weekend these next 2 weeks should be real intersting. She's checking to see if I'm serious about and have adopted MB principles (getting rid of LBs) and also progress on same. Sometimes I have to wonder though if she's planning on trying my patience and trying to get me to LB. We shall see! I may have to come here to rant and rave, if so, please understand and help any way you can. Please pray for us as well.

Thank you all again.

And how is she "progressing" in her Marriage Builders principles?

Not so good. She keeps telling me her heart belongs to someone else and she doesn't see a future with me. Big LB for me, but doesn't seem to phase her. According to her she's being honest about her feelings, so no LB. Weird huh?

When I bring anything up, like ripping the kids hearts out again, that's an LB.

Well, I wouldn't consider that a lovebuster to point out she is hurting the kids. A lovebuster is a defined set of behaviors and that doesn't meet the criteria. It just seems that she is holding you to MB principles, but is not interested in practicing them herself. When she "checks" to see if you are serious about it, I would ask how serious SHE is about them. It is a two-way street, after all.

Youu right I will try that. I'm hoping she will fill out the LIBJ for Jennifer this weekend and participate Thurday.

I'll keep posting.

Thank you for all your help.

ML, I am considering pulling out all the stops Tuesday evening, candles, wine, whirlpool tub full of bubble bath so she can unwind from the trip, after talking to the kids and putting them to bed. How would you see this as "over the top" or a nice gesture?
I sent a card last week, she liked it and was happy with it.
Any thoughts on things i can do will be appreciated.

Thank you again.

You know, I wonder if that might not be too much. And I will explain why. She is still detached from you and is in withdrawal. If you make this romantic gesture, there will be an expectation for her to respond. And there lies the rub, Eagle. She won't be able to respond and this will aggravate her because when she can't respond appropriately, she will feel like a class A jerk. When you overdo it, it only pushes her away for this very reason.

This is a good idea, but I would wait until she is further out of withdrawal. The timing is just not right.

I would back off somewhat. Be pleasant and nice, but don't focus all the attention on her. Don't make her the center of attention. Let her EASE into the role of wife and mother, while subtly meeting her needs the best you can. The idea is to attract, attract, attract...

ML,

Again great advice. I'll back off on that plan.

Thank you.