EA2-

I referred to him looking at my response to his post here...I wanted to ensure that he saw what I had to say. Nothing more, nor did I think that it would confuse the issue.

As a BS, perhaps I can shed a little light on what your H is looking for in a "plan".

I felt horribly insecure in our marriage after my wife's EA...rightfully so. It was clear that our marriage was in deadly danger, and that she was willing to go outside of the marriage to satisfy her own needs regardless of the impacts to myself and our kids...in much the same fashion that happened in your case.

And I too wanted a 'plan'. Not just knowing that she didn't have the 'opportunity'...but that she had learned from what happened and was applying what she'd learned to keep it from happening again. In our case, her EA began via internet and went to phone...and when I 'caught' the IM's between them indicating their love and future plans, she was all set and willing to go live with him...even though they hadn't met.

So..back to the 'plan'. When we first started to deal with this, she was in almost the exact same state that you are now. She was also in withdrawl over the end of the A, which I'm not sure how much of that you've dealt with. But, she was angry at our entire family for 'ruining her chance to be with the love of her life'. Lashing out at me at every chance...it was horrible.

I managed to keep my temper, keep from DJ'ing and LB'ing pretty well, even though I'd never even heard of this site. Instead, I made myself see past what I was feeling to what SHE was feeling. She was devestated by the loss of 'what might have been'. She was scared, ashamed, angry, embarassed. She had no desire to truly look at what she'd done to our family...instead, she wanted to blame US for everything. She was still living in that 're-written marital history' that you'll see some of us talking about...she'd convinced herself that she'd NEVER been happy in our 17+ year marriage. (Pure hogwash...we knew she'd not been happy for about that last year...and had fought tooth and nail to help, but to no avail). Instead of taking all of this personally, I worked to help her deal with her own emotions first...let her deal with her withdrawl, helped her to see that there was nothing to be embarassed about. Showed her that while she may feel ashamed, she was still loved and cared for. Not just by me, but by our families, friends, etc...

But...she still kept talking divorce and seperation. Finally, she realized that if she did that, she would lose me in any capacity, forever.

We began to reconcile. But I still needed a plan...how would we keep from having this happen again? Unless you've been through it, it's impossible to describe the sheer emotional devestation that being a BS is. To put it into perspective, I'll simply say that I've been diagnosed for PTSD twice in my life...the first time was post-combat. The second was this...and it was FAR harder to deal with than the first.

So...that plan. How would she show me that this wouldn't happen again? Sure, she could quit playing the online games that would have let her resume contact with OM. But, she was still occasionally IM'ing him. She DID agree to counseling...but refused to apply or use any of it since she didn't like the counselor (our first MC was actually completely correct in what she was saying...but had no tact and quite honestly didn't know how to 'sell the plan' to my wife). But, we started seeing my IC for our MC...and started that plan.

She HATED that I wanted to check her email...as a matter of fact, it was that fact that finally led to the real NC between them...because she knew I was 'looking'. But a few days later, she told our MC that she now understood why I wanted to check her email...it wasn't that I truly had expected to find anything...but it was the only way I could SEE that she was doing her part with NC.

She started the EA because she didn't understand what was wrong in discussing our problems with opposite sex friends...she didn't realize that listening to THEIR problems would lead to her eventual interest in them. She didn't understand emotional boundaries. But once she did, she began implementing them. If someone started talking on a subject that became too personal, she now would put a halt to it rather than let it go on.

She began to take steps to keep herself from being attracted to others...in other words, she began taking steps to keep it from happening again. She sat down with me and our MC, and learned what it was that led up to her having her affair...and how to avoid those things. A PLAN.

My feeling that it's THIS kind of thing that Eagle is looking for from you.

I'd also guess that he's looking for you to quit threatening or considering divorce...at least for now. Instead, simply find ways to make your life together more enjoyable for BOTH of you.

My wife and I didn't do a lot of R talking outside of the MC office for the first several months. We'd do our homework...but we wouldn't let ourselves DWELL on what happened. We wouldn't dwell on the problems...we'd dwell on the good stuff...and save our problems for when we had a nuetral third party to help us deal with them...our weekly MC.

So...as a suggestion for you in this case, I'd suggest that you simply stop with worrying about a D. Sit down, and honestly think about what WOULD make you happier in your current marriage. Think about the good things you shared in your marriage...what made you happy before? There WERE things, or you wouldn't have made it this far. Start renewing those things...and start small at first. Walks, talking...NOT about the A or R. Find a hobby to share with your H...and when you share it, don't let the A or R intrude on it. Become FRIENDS again first...then later on you can work on the marriage in more depth. And realize that neither of you have to make any final choices today or tomorrow...you've got your whole life to make a choice.

Hope this helps you get some perspective.

You know I would have really loved to eventually put "in recovery" in our sig, and eventually "RECOVERED" in our sig. But I can't do it alone.

This is ANOTHER reason why I place so much value on good marriage counseling. Our MC didn't spend a lot of time giving us 'sage advice' nearly as much as he spent time helping us to learn to communicate with each other. Most of the time, he was the referree who helped us to express to each other what we were REALLY feeling and dealing with...AND THEN he helped the other spouse to clearly HEAR and UNDERSTAND what was just said.

It seems to me that the two of you need to have the 'neutral 3rd party' more than almost anything else in order to help you deal with all of the issues in your marriage...the ones pre-existing to the affair as well as those created by or subsequent to it.

Both of you are hurt and angry with the other. And whenever you talk, you both vent that hurt and anger back to the other person...so that all their really hearing from you is THAT...not the message contained within.

You both need to learn how to express that message WITHOUT the hurt and anger, so that the other person can clearly hear what they NEED to hear. And...you both need to learn how to IGNORE those emotional triggers when you're listening to your spouse, so that instead you're listening for the REAL message you need to get out of what's being said.

Find a competent counselor, who is PRO-marriage, and when you go for the first time, tell them that the FIRST thing you need to do is what I've suggested above.

One other good thing our MC had us do. He told us to schedule our talks on the R, and on the A. Have a set place/time that we would deal with those things. A set time limit that is strictly enforced. When time is up, the person who is speaking finishes what they say, and everything is tabled until the next discussion. AND THEN ALLOW NO MORE DISCUSSION ON THE SUBJECT UNTIL THE NEXT SCHEDULED TIME. Spend the rest of your time simply being a family again. Spend it as I've suggested, doing something trivial together.

This ties into SH's plan for 15 hours a week too...in fact, that's what I'm trying to get ya'll to do with this concept of finding something to do together simply as friends.

Last thing. We went through this with four teenaged kids in the house. We never lied to them about what was going on, nor did we let them feel like any of this was their fault. At the same time, we learned that we needed to keep a 'united front' appearance for the kids. So...they knew mom and I were working out what our future was going to be like, but neither of us would go to the kids and 'announce' anything without having discussed it and agreed on it first. It prevents confusion and hurt for them...this is something that the two of you might consider as well.

Just trying to help here my friends.

This is ANOTHER reason why I place so much value on good marriage counseling. Our MC didn't spend a lot of time giving us 'sage advice' nearly as much as he spent time helping us to learn to communicate with each other. Most of the time, he was the referree who helped us to express to each other what we were REALLY feeling and dealing with...AND THEN he helped the other spouse to clearly HEAR and UNDERSTAND what was just said.

It seems to me that the two of you need to have the 'neutral 3rd party' more than almost anything else in order to help you deal with all of the issues in your marriage...the ones pre-existing to the affair as well as those created by or subsequent to it.

In order for your marriage to successfully survive these are some things that your spouse must do:

1. He must be totally honest with you about everything
2. He must answer every question that you ask truthfully and fully.
3. He must do everything in his power to prove to you that you are the one that he wants to be with.
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