Owl,

The plan I ahve is to try and follow MB to a T, but it takes 2. I also have to protect the kids. I am not giving up, I am not a quitter. I do have a tendency to speak my mind and PC rarely is a part of it. I speak from the heart, usually after giving issues considerable thought. Dealing with this type of problem is very different than dealing with flag officers and briefing MAJCOM CCs. I was very good at that and am good at briefing the customers for the company I work for. I ahve never had to hold my tongue as WW used to hold the same type of beliefs, and believe it or not could almost read my mind. She could finish my snetences for me at any time. Now, to quote from AF PME she "listens to refute, not understand." I will work on getting a plan in writting this afternoon, when it's done I would appreciate your set of eyes and knowledge looking it over, bleed all over it if you have to, I will make appropriate changes, alot liek staff review, I would liek a good solid plan that will work, I wnat this to work.

I do feel I am too close to this to have a completely objective POV so your review is and wouldbe very important to me.

Owl, thank you for chiming back in and helping and not giving up on us.

Chuck

Oh, no, not a plan in writing.........

At work, do you compare your customers to a pound of chopped liver?

Believer,

Are you being funny, sarcastic, trying to push my buttons or what???

And by the way it is not chopped liver, the way the joke goes in the military is it just liver, the same way you see it in the butchers display case.

I don't screw my customers, so no I don't refer to them as any type of liver.

So exactly why are you busting my stones???

Pretending I'm believer...

Well, somebody has to!

Now just being me...

Eagle...I want you to know that your posts and your wifes are a contribution to this board and to people's lives.

Thank you for being here, very much.

LA

Eagle - I don't know what to say to you. Chopped liver, liver, who cares? I still have lots of hope for you and your wife, believe it or not. I think the two of you are going to make it, despite yourselves.

Thank you,

We cleaned the garage yesterday so we could put her Surburban back in. She had ideas of where to put stuff, no not in my behind, and it worked well. Just waiting for the trash man to haul stuff away and burn some stuff tonight, like the waterbed I bought for us just before we were married, we concieved our children in, slept in our whole married life, and she tainted with her A. Yup there will be a big fire today. Other than that not much is going on.

She did mention we would all move to FL if I get the job. I was surprised as she refers to everything in this hous as mine, not hers, to the kids, "it's in your fathers room, etc... I narrowed the selection down to this house and 1 other she liked this house, I put in the hard wood floors in the color she wanted. 2600sq ft, brand new, 3 car garage, 3/4 acre to make her happy. I could ahve lived in 1500 - 2000 for a lot less money and been happy, but some of her GFs in Fl had mentioned in the past that she needed the house she deserved. I had the chance so I got it for us. Still nothing.

I am here, being still, no R or M talk, just doing my thing. I am not outdoorsey stud, used to be when I was in my 20s, but I had a career, wife and kids, finish degree, responsibilities, no time for a lot of play. The things I did want to do she always told me we couldn't afford. Now we can and I'm basically alone.

Yes it does really hurt that I and our kids are paying for all the mean things the kids of her childhood did to her. I aske her how she could do that to us after enduring that for so many years, answer: Deer in the headlights look and silence. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

<<<BUMP>>>

Hi Eagle,

It is slow here today. But thought I would drop a note and see how you are doing today.

Pretty good, has been a calm day, just DD giving WW a hard time.

Is she still a WW? If so, how could it be good. Tolerable maybe but not good.

You deserve much better than that.

JMHO,
L.

I don't think she's still a WW, I don't know for sure. She is in NC, says she's working on M as best she can, still won't wear rings though. I guess I should change it to FWW or what?

She is going to orientation for new job this morning, 7:30 - 5:00. Tomorrow she has in clinic orientation, don't know when. Closing on OKC house tomorrow sometime. Hopefully this will be the end of that ugly chapter in our lives.

How do you get over something like "I was finally able to attract teh type of man I always wanted."? Makes me feel like 20yrs I've known her was all a lie. Definitely a death blow to the crotch, hurt as bad as D-day maybe worse.

Oh good grief Eagle this isn't a military battle plan, it's an M for crying out loud! I'm not sure M recovery would dovetail that well into formal written military-style plans.

Back to a little piece of advice that worked for my BH and me but you have never acknowledged, despite my posting it many times. I even think other people have recommended this, too. Do fun stuff together. Your kids are old enough so you can do things as a family if you choose, or do stuff as a couple. Have you even considered just going out and doing something fun? It could be something you did when you were first dating and falling in love, or maybe going through the recreational companionship inventory and agreeing enthusiastically on something new to try. Just take a break from the A talk and R talk and written plans and what not and just go out have do something fun together. Please? Pretty please? At least consider it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Ya know, Eagle, I'm wondering if that's a bit of fog talk or rewriting of history. Keep in mind there is so much more to a man than that rugged and outdoorsey image. I sure can understand why that hurts, though. Wish I knew what to say, but I can't think of anything at the moment except to say it all sounds kind of superficial, the same as her being more attractive to him because of the lost weight.

We have and we are, we haven't A or R talked in about 3 days. It's hard though when she will not provide any input,all I get is "whatever you want, I just do as I'm told!" So I don't tell her what to do, just ask and if she doesn't respond I get on with something I want to do, I ask if she would like to help or participate, sometimes she answers, sometimes not. Either way I have things I have to do, she did ask if I wanted help with garage this weekend I said yes and she helped alot. It was nice to work together toward a common goal. I also cooked this weekend, she helped and it was nice. Are things getting better? Seems like it. I sure hope so.

This morning she had to go to orientation for her new job, I asked if she wanted to wear her rings, she said no I'm not working today. What's that mean? I said OK continue to advertise you aren't married, not a problem. She then made a big deal that I'm not wearing mine either, jsut took mine off recently, I said well I guess you're right I'm not, just waiting for you to tell me when you feel ready for us to wear them again. She says go get mine, ALRIGHT I'll wear them. Probably an LB, but who knows? Only the shadow and FWW that's who. I'm just truckin' ladadodaday

Hmmm... possibly a response to your list of what she must do? Not sure if that ever got to her, but if it did...


Baby steps are good. Better than no steps at all.


From an FWW perspective, that comes across as R talk and pressure. But I never took my rings off, so I can't say for sure, but it just sounds like pressure.


You got me! No idea!


Ya THINK?? I would say that yes, a bitter sarcastic remark in response to her pushing back after pressure from you would probably qualify as an LB.

Things didn't start to get better between my H and me until he stopped approaching the sitch with a heavy hand and instead started using a softer touch. In Harleyesque terms (and this was before I ever visited this site) he stopped the LBs and SDs and started to Plan A. It worked.

Do you consider your list of demands, written military-style plan, and sarcasm all parts of Plan A? I'm thinking they might not come across that way, but that's just my VHO, which I'm sure will again put me in the doghouse here.

The list of demands was not enforced, she still doesn't know all of it, she briefly read them and said OK, but alot of water has gone under the bridge since.

No dog house for you.

Eagle,

Her actions indicate she is stll a WS. Living on the edge of being a WS but definitely carries the traits.

This is not good and she is subtly trying to make you cross your boundaries.

BTW, do you know what your boundaries are?

That ring indicent was you attempt at manipulating her. Did it make you feel better? I think not. So don't use that tactic. Instead give her back her guilt. She doesn't wear her ring.....you make sure she knows the M isn't in recovery. You tell her YOUR boundaries for YOU, not for her convience but what you setup and implement for you and your family.

The more you present issues to her as coming from you and your family, the stronger you stance.

Remember you want the WS OUT of your life. Right now the WS is allowed to hang around and come out when convienent. Make the WS' life miserable so your W can come back.

Whem she makes those stupid comments about finally meeting the kind of man she wants.......I would babble back something like:

WS: Well I finally met the kind of man I want t/d with.

BS: Oh, does he know? We'll have to go warn him.

WS: What do you mean?

BS: Most men don't like to hear a WS is on the prowl. A few stupid ones might but only for a while. Real men like their women to walk and talk with them, not crawl after them.

See how u r difusing the WS attitude?

JMHO,
L.

Yup got it

Thank you Orchid.

Just another thought.....even if the Xws were to see this info....that's ok..... alright?

RE: Ws & Xws' don't digest this stuff well anyway. Their attempts at sabatogue (sp???) against a good plan.....is futile. LOL!!!

BS' have more endurance. WS' have short attention spans....they tend to create a lot of havoc but their energy for it doesn't last long.

In fact, the more they try to trip up a BS with a good plan, the harder they fall.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

OK Eagle...so, are you now divorcing instead of attempting to save your marriage???

I say this based on a post of yours on another thread.

Look...reconciliation and divorce are mutually exclusive...one works at complete odds to the other.

So, which is it? No point in offering you further advice or assistance if you're now going to divorce. Let us know.