Thank you for the confirmation, this is definitely against my instincts (notice I didn't say netter instincts). It has to be done if I'm ever to see progress.

Please stay with me, I really do appreciate your support, advice and help.

Thank you again

Appt with Jennifer next Wed 8PM, W says she would like to participate. I think weekend went well, just confusing. Bought some books, bubblegum for the brain. Went our to early dinner last night went well. Went shopping w W and kids went well. No hassles except MIL called, big hassle. We'll see how rest of week goes and appt.

Appt went well W talked to Jennifer for almost an hour. We got homework and will try to get it done soon. DD & DS are scheduled for IC/FC at end of month, earliest I could get them in. W was supposed to get them an appt and didn't. W has yet to find a local IC. Rest of week gone OK, we'll see how weekend goes, drag races Sat night.

DS is having issues, talked with W this morning, he said some things that sent red flag up to her. I talked to him and he is stressed about sitch at home, not knowing if W is staying or leaving, and issues at school, tons of homework, etc... He needs stability, and reassurance, I reassured him I am always and will always be here for him, restated the W is trying, but I have no control over her actions. IC & FC for kids can't come soon enough. I'm very worried about DS and will try for an appt for him asap.

You know Eagle, your tone has changed lately. Sounds like things are getting solved and moving slowly forward. Good for you and your M!

Just a bit of encouragement....

C-

Nothing is getting solved, nothing has changed, I'm just being still. Laid back watching and waiting. Working with Jennifer, reaccomplished EN questionaire, went over it with W, some improvement seen I guess. Completed my LB questionaire, don't know about W, but that was one of our assignments from Jennifer. Still don't feel safe or comfortable, just dealing with it. Have an IC at 6 and MC with Jennifer at 8 this evening.

Can you speak to Jennifer about the grocery money?

Money is not an issue for me, we have sold house in OKC, all of it is in joint checking, she has check book and ATM card. Money probs were when she retired, no money coming in on her side and I had to do some belt tightening. In addition to that she had withdrawn 750.00 and opened a bank account in OKC, never said a word and I didn't know until the mortgage came due. We usually grocery shop together with the kids at Sams and WalMart. What are you talking about???

Well apparently it is time to cave in to WWs demands. Monday I am going to my lawyer and filing for the big D. Nothing is working, she hasn't changed her outlook on anything, if anything it has only gotten worse!

And by the way this is not an April fools joke!

Eagle,


I am sorry to read this message. I hope all goes well with you and your children. If it is truely what she wants, then there is no denying her. You have done an admirable job in trying to save your marriage, and I am sure your children appreciate the efforts you have made and how you have taken care of them.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

What would you do in this situation? I really need you advice here.

D-Day was 14 Oct 05, W was living in OKC ADAF, retired 1 Feb 06, came home to family 27 Jan 06.

Just started talking to Jennifer 3 weeks ago, keeps house clean, holds hands occaisionally, kisses (pecks on lips or cheek) occaisionally, SF once a month (maybe depends on her feelings), and we do sleep in the same bed, must maintain our sides though cuddling and snuggling happens occaisionally.

Over 2 mos, and this is as good as it gets, NC in place since 14 Oct 05. Has no desire for SF, says I'm here trying, won't do anything to ease my fears, pain, etc...There is no vocal affirmation on making M work, "Just watch my actions." Conversation is her #1 EN, but she won't discuss anything with me, whenever I talk to her she says I'm all attitude, others around us hear this and question her motives, they don't hear or see an attitude. Says she is here and this constitutes working on M, does not meet any of my emotional needs, she is here for the kids, stopped reading MB material, gets upset whenever R or M discussions occur. Apparently playing waiting game to see who has the most patience and if she can force me to file for D. Told me that her paycheck would go into joint account, went behind my back and opened new account has paycheck direct deposited there, this has been in place for over 2 weeks, just found out Saturday, can't be an LB for me, I can't ever get upset about anything, I'm supposed to suck it up and be concerned about her feelings, my questioning this premeditated action by her is a BIG LB for her. Supposedly she is informing me of her whereabouts this is not working, if it was I would have known about the visit to the bank, she is intercepting the mail and hiding her actions if anything should show up (like new bank account stuff, who knows what else she is hidding, a real trust builder here), lying about financial aspects that will cause bills to go unpaid.

If she would work on M, open her eyes and try to be a little more positive about us, she would see I am still in love with her, although falling out of love very quickly, willing to listen, try to understand her POV, and talk to her, be affectionate any time, any place, would give her the world, but she refuses, sooo. What can I do??? I ahve run out of patience.

First Eagle,

Read this story by SKM SKM's Chronicles

Next I would suggest that you back off and have patience. Talk with your children about their feelings and what they see. Don't pump them for information ask them what they see and feel.

You might be surprised at their insights. Don't validate or invalidate their feelings or insights, but think about the data you have received. Frankly, your W has a lot of resentment, rightly or wrongly, and she needs to deal with it.

Further, since you have lived alone for 4 years and are used to running everything yourself, sharing the family and home are very difficult transistions. Further, she is used to being alone and not having to account for her time, her thoughts, her efforts to anyone not you, not the kids, NO ONE.

I am thinking part of this is this transistion from you two leading entirely different lives for the last four years. Next, she is now retired and THAT takes some getting used to. I believe you have also retired as well. One tends to define onesself via their jobs and when one retires some identity is lost. Oh! and finally there is that "little" detail of her affair. That is why I posted SKM's chronicles for you. Do you see the challenges?

I would strongly urge you to address the issues you both feel about living apart for so long and then being together again first. Then talk about the issues of her having to be responsible for and TO the kids. Talk about strategies that will help ease this transition for the both of you and then do them. Take your time. You are in no hurry are you. She can file if she likes, and you can file if you like, but neither of you gain much either way.

I believe if you start to see things from her side, and can talk about them and decide together how to treat them, she may well come around and start to do the same for you.

This is a very complicated situation, and the A just adds even more complication.

Must go, but think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Post deleted by Eagle15

And now you know why nothing has worked. However, my advice still stands IF she will end the A. Until she does, there is no need to expect much of anything from her, so don't waist the energy it takes to be mad.

I am sorry to hear about this, but perhaps now things will become more open.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you JL

Eagle...

You aren't safe to talk to. Neither is she.

Make yourself safe. Make yourself safe for everyone...reward yourself.

LA

LA,

I'm working on making myself safe. I did not blow up, We did talk. I am trying to be as safe for her as I can, but the deceit and lying has to stop sometime right? I guess I just don't get it.

Eagle,

Making your conversation safe for one time only begins the change. Over and over again is when you become safe.

You are not safe from yourself, either, Eagle. Please know that. You judge yourself, measure, estimate and value yourself within strict guidelines. I see your marriage as craving acceptance and ownership like rain in the desert. Be open to it.

Not blowing up is a good start...not DJing, which is what I see as the most harmful to you and to her, would be worth focusing on. This isn't as easy as seeing it in front of you...like raising your voice or calling names. It is a perspective of allowance, a deep belief of permission, rightness, that is life long and can be difficult to detect.

You're not alone.

Would you care to explore DJs more? I know my posts are long and you may not choose to...but if you will read McCrackens' thread "Fog Talk or Truth" it might give you an insight into making yourself safe for you and for her.

LA

Well I now have the cell in my possession, she is very mad about it and wants to POJA about it. What now?

I'm curious, Eagle, why do you feel your W is not entitled to keep her own bank account? She is earning money, why shouldn't she be able to hold her own account?

If you looked at the thread ML started yesterday about finances, you would find it is not at all unusual for Hs and Ws to hold their own bank accounts.

EagleTooo had actually started a thread about this a few weeks ago, about the time she started the job. It gave me the impression that she was not allowed to make any sort of purchase without clearing it with you first. Sounded a bit unreasonable to me that she had to seek your permission to make small purchases like a cup of coffee or a tube of toothpaste.

Your wish for total control of her and her wish for a little independence and breathing room seem to be feeding a viscious cycle. Whoever it was that pointed out that you two needing to adjust to being together after living separately for a long time has a good point.

And JL (I think): EagleTooo's A has been over for months. She is no longer in that A - NC since last fall.

She wants to POJA her secret cell phone??