Pep:

YOU WILD WOMAN, YOU...

I saw this....

Thanks for this idea....

I forgot about HICKEYS...FUN!!!!

Vampire MIMI...signing off....

Sorry for the threadjack..

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep,

My parents are the same way - my bro who is 24 and lives at home...he has caught them a few times...I have in my teenage years...

They just ensure they are always playful with eachother and always keep up the flirt. My mom will tell ya she works hard at it - but her work pays off as she effortlessly gets all the "reaction" from Dad she needs *YUCK* lol.

I do hope I am that way in years to come. I remember H talking to his mom who is very proper and religious - and she once said to him - sex isn't about the woman enjoying it - it's about the man...H likes to talk about contraversial things with his mom (cause she gets all mad - mean boy) His mom made some comment on how oral sex was dirty and how people could do it - and H said mom - it's natural and no where in the bible does it say NO ORAL SEX - and if it's something your partner wants, the bible does say to please your wife or husband...so. She was mortified.

I don't want to grow up to be H's parents...I want the playful fun of my parents!! And from what my moms says - it's work - that playful fun - but work with a HUGE payoff!

Yikes Pep

I wasn't inferring you are old btw - my parents are my mom and stepdad and have been married 22 years...I was more inferring the length of marriage and the amount of fun they have.

My Dad's affair was 10 years ago...

My mom says, the first 10 years are VERY hard, the next 10 you don't know if you will make it...and once you hit 20 years - that's when the fun starts lol.

but Dorry .... I ~am~ old .... and proud to be this age which is why I posted my age... to give all you youngsters ~hope~ that there can be lust in the dust after AARP adds you to their mailing list ..... since you are not American ... you might not know what AARP is LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Pep,

Old <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> hardly, my "child" bride is about your age. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I agree with you though, marriage can actually become more fun as you get older. We are empty nesters now, and gradually making the transistion to not having to focus as much time and effort on the kids.

So you "kids" out there, take care of your health, and you can have fun after 50 or even 60 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> and yes do it married. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

JL

...H likes to talk about contraversial things with his mom (cause she gets all mad - mean boy)His mom made some comment on how oral sex was dirty and how people could do it - and H said mom - it's natural and no where in the bible does it say NO ORAL SEX - and if it's something your partner wants, the bible does say to please your wife or husband...so. She was mortified.
That is so funny dorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
A pastor told H and I that we could do anything we want in "our" marriage bed...it's all holy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

AND... if he EVER defiles our marriage bed again.....he's doomed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Hi SC,

i could be totally off base here with this post, because what i am going to say is what i am struggling with, maybe you will find something in it for you, maybe not.

just trying to type anything here today has got me in tears already. i should probably start my own thread too.

anyway, all i conclude lately is that I"M TERRIFIED OF INTIMACY and i'm trying to break thru that wall and it's just not very easy. are you subconciously sabatoging yourself? conciously you see what you are doing will potentially derail you as a couple, and that is good to be able to see. is it possible that you are scared of success though too?

{{{{{FL}}}}}}}

FL,

I'm not sure, you may be right. It will certainly be something to keep in mind as we continue trying to recover. But I don't think that's it. I've been trying to get clear about this whole 'desire for excitement and passion' thing for awhile. Unfortunately, in my case, it often gets intertwined with my 'desire for male attention/affirmation'. A dangerous combination.

What I have concluded is that it's perfectly fine to have the excitement/passion desire. But the male attention thing is not healthy, and probably has a lot to do with my self-esteem. So I need to keep the two separate. Find ways to get my excitement rush from my husband, work, skydiving, whatever. And find ways to build my self esteem so I don't need that male attention to make me feel good.

So far, I'm doing okay finding positive channels for excitement and passion. Not so good on figuring out how to fix the self esteem thing. That's a tough one in my opinion. Anyone with ideas, hand 'em over!!!

So it's now pretty clear in my mind. And here's the reason why I don't think I'm avoiding intimacy or sabotaging my success. For awhile I thought I might keep all this to myself. Sort of as my little trap door in case I need an escape in the future. If that makes any sense at all. But, as pep says, secrecy kills intimacy. And last night, I talked to my H about this stuff. Just the act of telling him was an intimate thing to do. And now that I have, I no longer have my escape hatch. He can hold my feet to the fire on this issue because he now knows about it.

I'm sure there's a part of me that is afraid of intimacy, or at least that doesn't quite know how to -do- intimacy yet. But I think I'm learning.

FL -- start that thread, and you know I'll chime in eventually!

--SC

ok, right after i posted that, i decided to call H, to see where he was and to tell him i wanted to go home and spend some time with him before the kids got home so we could talk. and talk we did, i got to raise some of my fears/concerns and hear his current thoughts and his hopes for the future. it was good great talk, it helped a lot. i'm feeling much better again.

regarding your struggles, guess i cannot help you there. i'm not sure i can really relate. through everything, my H is always been the one i've really longed and desired. i think that is why his indifference hurt me so bad.

hope you have a great weekend. i plan to.

FL

do you really skydive??

FL,
Skydive? Not yet, but some day I will. I used to be terrified of heights, until one day, on a whim, I went bungie jumping. One of the best things I've ever done. Seriously. Talk about a RUSH. And I'm not afraid of heights anymore! I had the chance to do the skydiving sortly after my first daughter was born, but couldn't justify putting my life in danger just for the thrill with a baby at home. Since my kids are now just 2 and 5, it will be awhile before I do it. I'll probably be one of those women who does it on her 80th birthday or something. But I will do it.

Glad you had a good talk with your hubby and are looking forward to a good weekend.

SC

I wanna go skydiving but H wont go with me - and I wanna go with him...I have done the bungie jumping...hehehe

H used to jump outta planes for a living (airborne) so he says why would I pay to jump out of an airplane now. He has done over 60 jumps...I just want to do one...lol

i've gone para-sailing. all the fun of the parachute, without the jumping out of a plane issue!!!

Dorry,

I'm still reeling from your post to me yesterday on the other thread....



Not reeling in a bad way. More like -- from the effect of taking a direct hit to the target on my chest.

I actually have been working on my personal issues in counseling -- just not airing them here. Lots of issues... the sexual abuse, fear of intimacy, my spiritual beliefs. My usual M.O. is to walk in my counselor's office and start crying immediately. Sometimes I don't stop the entire hour. I guess I've gotten used to that emotional release every week.... but I'm right in the middle of a 3-week break from counseling (a vacation and scheduling issues)... and maybe I'm more of a powder keg than I realized right now.

You're right, though, that this most recent business with the porn knocked me off track. It also made me keenly aware of the major destruction that "shame" has done/is doing in both my and my H's lives. For me, all the shame I've been carrying around about the sex abuse, plus the bonus dose from my affair. For my husband, the DEBILITATING shame that's preventing him from getting help with the porn.

Maybe that's why, when I kept reading about friends and family telling WS's how ashamed they are of them... it touched a great big, raw nerve for me. I realize I'm seeing this through my own -- still rather fresh and painful -- experience. But even so, I still think there are constructive and destructive ways to lead someone back to the path when they stray. You can drive them back to the path with whips and cattle prods (demands, judgement, shame)... which may very well work.. but will leave scars. Or you can reach out... put your arms around them... and firmly but lovingly guide them back to the path.

So Pep, yes, in some ways, my focus on exposure probably was a "straw man" as you said -- a way to block out or hide from my own struggles. At the same time, though, it was a sincere attempt to spare others from the destructive residue that shame, in my experience, almost always leaves on a person -- it's like napalm as far as I'm concerned.
I realize that FWW's are going to have their own shame to work through if they're going to heal and make ammends. I just don't think they need any more heaped on them from the outside world.

Anyway, Dorry, I don't know how to tell you how greatful I am that you came along... put your arms around me... and firmly but lovingly gave me a push back toward the rigth path. But as I said yesterday -- Bless you.

And pep, I'll have to work on that "hostility" thing. I don't see it, but then again, all too often, I'm the last one to see things about myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

--SC

(((smartcookie)))

I wish you well...personal inventory is something I've been doing a lot too...it sho ain't easy, is it?

Dorry and Pep are so great...such a blessing to this board...they have both helped me too, so much...A prayer of thanks goes up for them...

It takes a lot to come here and say the things that you have in this post...you have my admiration for that...and should you ever want or need it, my support too...

Many Blessings,


Mrs. Wondering

SC, you have made such amazing progress! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> As to the above.. sweetie shame can be replaced with pride. Pride for making changes in your life. Pride for overcoming horrible obstacles in life and in marriage. Both you and your H are dealing with shame, a double whammy that has existed in my M too. Both of us are FWS's. I am thankful every day for my A finally being exposed. Exposure was the only thing that stopped my H's first A. The 2nd A was not going to stop because no one that I exposed to could help.. it had to go the entire ugly two year cycle that many go. However, I do not regret for one second the people I exposed to because they gave me support! Yes my H is a bit uncomfortable around some people that know..but you know what? That is the fallout from choosing to have an A. After time most people will admire the effort you both put into recovery and at some point will come to you for advice. Hugs sweetie, you are really doing great.

((((HUGS))))

The hardest thing for me to accept was that the same way many of these BS's feel about their WS's - my husband felt the same way about me - and the feeling he let me down - he failed as a husband - amplified it.

The BS's here ARE trying to be ligthhouses to their own WS's...and most of the time, they are trying to tell the FWS's here - that if THEIR FWS acted that way....how it would make them feel and how they would react in their pain.

I would look at it as a way to learn....Some of my early early posts I got so many 2x4's most people telling me - sheesh if i was your BS I would rip that letter up, or walk away from you - it sounds so much full of ME ME ME ME....and I remember getting SO mad at them and SO frustrated as they are STILL my feelings and I am a WS but also a PERSON, so my feelings count.

Then a slowly began to learn that the way I tell people my feelings, the way i want them to understand how I am feeling and acknowledge my feelings, actually would come across to them as they dont count and all that counts is me....WOW - my fault again - but something I can control....


sfjdt or however you spell it said that this board only likes FWS's who run with their tail between their legs. I took that as a direct insult to all us RECOVERED FWS's. Why? I am sorry - but most of the FWW's I know here are far from timid. Can you call Myrta, or FL timid? LOL NOPE! We are all extremely opinionated and set in our ways and STUBBORN - it's a common thing for us all - and why it has been such a HARD struggle for us to get where we are. But what we have all had to learn that the fiestiness in us actually made recovery harder...and as we learned we dont have to give up who we are as people, but change the way we interact, let our givers come out some times........all of a sudden our husbands became more responsive.

And everyone is still in recovery at different points. Some aren't completely back to normal yet - for me it's a 80/20 split - and in that 20 we still have MAJOR issues - but I also know we will get through those....and i can't wait to just have NORMAL marriage issues again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> one day!!!

It's hard to see how sacrificing and making that change and being the one to have to carry that burden is fair...it doesn't sound fair - but the goal is a happy marriage, one you deserve....sometimes you have to do back breaking work before your can reap your rewards....but the reward is oh so sweet.

So remember that the BS's here are alot like your H....and their reactions to YOU could be how your H is reacting...and just not telling you....and help that teach you to understand your husband...be the leader...and he will follow...

Our son, nearly 20, is adopted. We have his birth sister as well. We got our son at age 3 while his sister was an infant when we got her. They have different bio-dads ... but their bio Mom was (?is) a heroin addict ... and a not-so-admirable-mother in other ways I choose not to say.

Guess which one carries the shame on his shoulder like a cement block? ( the "his" was a major clue ... LOL )

We have been to hades and back several times with that kid. And we have had "family therapy" up the wazzoo. I know a straw man when I see it, thanks to our dear son who would say stuff like this :

"My b-mother was a crack-ho but THAT does not bother me. You and Dad are against me! >>>>insert snarl here<<<<"

Cookie ... why waste your life on re-living the same old crapola over and over? Doncha know there is a feast waiting for you ... and it is not serving left-overs!

You had awful stuff happen to you .... and you can throw off the cement block of shame ~at any time of your choosing~ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Cookie ... you cannot spare others from the shame of their own choices. But you can drop your shame today, because your choices are no longer shameful.

Let it go.

~~~~~~~~~~ edited to correct my son's age!!! What does THAT tell you !!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I made HIM younger, of course!

Dorry, I am not a "whatever my name is", but it's okay, won't take it personally. I would agree that all of is are in a stage of recovery; that is why I hope once my recovery is further along, I won't be condescending to those who are in the same situation I was in. HOW advice is delivered matters also