Everyone and I mean everyone has weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Some people's weaknesses are "harsher" than others. So, in a way, I guess people are who they are because they may be vulnerable to a unique thing or things.

Unfortunately, as a FWH, my vulnerability was that if I wasn't getting EN's met at home, I was going to get them met somewhere. I compare that to someone who is susceptible to addiction to hard drugs. Or addicted to overeating. EVERYONE has a vulnerability.

Looking back, I took the easy way out. I allowed my vulnerability to be exploited. Some people may look at my situation and not comprehend how I could do such a thing. Just like I can look at someone who is addicted to heroin and think "Can't they see how harmful that is to them physically, mentally, and otherwise?" They can look at me and see some demon for doing that because they cannot ever recognize the whys or the hows. In addition, someone who is susceptible to drug addiction may never be found out because they may never put the needle in their arm. But if they ever did, WHAM-O, they turn into a drug addict and will be labeled as such.

So the statement, "You are what you are" is true. I will never be able to remove the vulnerabilities I have. However, I can remove the possibility that someone else will expose these vulnerabilities again. The cousin (and truer statement) to that statement would be something like "You are what you do." When I was in the midst of the A, I WAS a WH defined by my ACTIONS. I was a cheater. I was a liar. Does that mean I will always be a cheater and a liar. The answer to that is a resounding NO. I will always be vulnerable to being a cheater and a liar. If I use the right tools like having people I am accountable to, prayer, and reading my Bible, then I can never BE or at least increase my chances of never being a cheater and a liar again - again defined by my ACTIONS.

I wish I had never done what I did. I did it twice and after talking to Harley I am coming to grips with the whys.

I will battle it for the rest of my life as I am what I am - susceptible to having A's when my EN's are not being met.

I wrote this and re-wrote this. I hope it makes some sense.

SNT

In the same way, as a BS I am what I am. A lot of us, me included, have beat themselves up after Dday wondering why, what did I do wrong, how can I change?

Well, I'm not as young as I used to be, not as pretty, am a bit overweight blah, blah blah. I'm not the all-singing, all-dancing wife that he obviously wanted me to be. But, actually, I quite like who I am. I'm a good mum, I'm sociable, I'm honest, I'm dependable. I'm doing the best I can with the terrible hand I've been dealt and my family are proud of me for the way I've handled things.

I am what I am; he is what he chose to be. TT

SNT:

Are you my FWH?..Just kidding...

I think if he were posting, he would share your viewpoint...

I understand exactly what you are saying...

I hear it said often from my FWH...

Thanks for your post..

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Orchid's right.

"wayward cheater" is a double negative, and thus is just a confusing label for a *good* thing. We should all hope that cheaters would stray from their cheating ways, shouldn't we?

Labels in general... we should all think about what placing labels does 2 OUR thinking about the recipient of the label - good or bad.

-ol' 2long

Oh...now that hurts coming from a pseudo-Southerner (west of the Miss)!

We have a similar saying in the REAL South...it simply means that you shouldn't try to make something into something it ain't...chicken poop is still chicken poop, even if you put it on a biscuit (Southern style, with buttermilk).

I don't understand why this is so controversial at all.
WHEN I was a WS .............I WAS A WS!!!
Can't deny that nor change the past.

BUT if you said 'once a cheater ALWAYS a cheater' - no I disagree totally.

We can all change, we do it all the time..but we need to CHOOSE to change to something better.

Its choice in the end LM for both parties.

I think it's healthy in the context that LM and you have placed it...

But in a locker room with beat down players...or at home with a defeated child...or towards a defeated FWS...it communicates that you have no hope for them.

I think that people can change, but I will also point out that many of the cheaters we see around here have not historically been liars and cheaters. That behavior is an aberration of character for them. So, its not like they have to change their characters, they simply have to correct their behavior to match their character.

Then, on the other hand, we have cheaters for whom lying and cheating is a way of life. Its not an aberration of character, it *IS* their character. Certainly they can change if they want to bad enough. But Marriage Builders is not set up to help them.

The bottom line is that I agree 200% with LemonMan, we should call a spade a spade regardless.

Mimi -

It doesn't matter if it is their choices, or their weaknesses, or whatever you call it. They are what they are.

Notice that LM didn't say you are what you were. There are many FWS's here that have made huge changes and worked very hard. There is where the hope is for everyone here.

There are others who continue down the road they chose. I haven't even seen a glimpse of the man I married in the last 3 and a half years. He has been MIA since before D-day.

LM's quote gives me some closure.

Believer:

I understand where you are coming from...

------------------------------------------------------------

However, my middle-aged brain is not understanding this thread now...

Is it being said that some BSes do not see their WSes as being liars and cheaters, etc.?

BUT...

It is the opinion that these same folks CAN CHANGE if and when they choose to do so?

"YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE" sounds sealed in stone...but I guess you guys are speaking in the present tense...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You cant change people: they can only change themselves.

We are what we are....YEP! And boy am I glad....cause I shrill and the thought of being who I was!!!

I think it's WE ARE WHAT WE CHOOSE TO BE and not WE ARE WHAT WE ARE...

B,

Don't our actions define us? Do we all know what we are all the time? I guess this thread is confusing.

What if a person declares,yes,I am an honest and caring person but then goes out and cheats on his W.Then what? Choices do make us what we are.Not that we cannot change since most of us will agree that once a cheater doesn't always make you always a cheater.But if that were true then why go on?

It begs the questions,"Who am I?", "What are my values and beliefs?" Don't I identify with those choices and feelings I have?

I can say yes,my WH was a liar and always was one.But that doesn't mean he will always be like that and it's my own personal opinion based on experience.He can change.I think it's a label and a generalization to consider that each and every person is only this or that which is what this "you are what you are " statement means to me.Again it's confusing and I think we will all have our differing interpretations.

In the original post,if the coaches viewpoint is that his team is,"You are what you are" then that is negative and hopeless.If the team is just that then they will never become anything better.

O

Well, O girl, how about you are what you do? Kind of a fruits of the Spirit kind of thing.

B,

I think it's an ever changing ideal,if you will.Our choices do define us but they are hopefully,always improving and for the greater good.

"You are what you do" I think can be temporary like I eldued to before.If you are what you do,say,cheat,yes you are at that moment naturally but it doesn't have to define you for all eternity.We can all change and live better lives and make approrpate choices.That's why what we are should be evolving.Not devolving.Improving.

We are what we are...yes,human with a capacity for good>fruition.

Anyway,hope you are doing well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

O

The statement "You are what you are" has nothing to do with choices (although I agree people are what they choose to be).

When you apply that statement to "other people" than yourself:

It has everything to do with acceptance (doesn't mean you have to like it) of reality. Once we accept the reality of who someone is (not who they used to be, not who you hope they will be, not who you think they have the potential to be) then you can make decisions based on REALITY, instead of imagination.

Apply it to yourself:

It also means that if TODAY I am a liar, a cheater, a controller, a codependent, a nagger, an enabler....that once I acknowledge the reality who I am, I can make choices to be someone I want to be.

Yep. This is what I hoped was being communicated here...

I agree. You are what you are..but you can chose who you want to be.

Lemonman, I've said it before...I think you bring balance to the board. When I'm face with tough decisions like to avoid conflict or not...its your voice I hear giving me strength, (I've given you the voice of Jack Lemon guess its the lemon reference...tough but likable with humor)

Mimi ~

I completely disagree.

The statement "You are what you are" is about acceptance. Not about choices.

yes, you do chose who you are, but thats not the point.

The point is if you cannot or will not accept the reality of yourself OR others...you run the risk of decision making based on fantasy instead of reality.

See earlier posts where I agree with YOU....

You and I really agree TOTALLY...

At first, I had a hard time understanding what was being communicated here...

As I said earlier, I have a middle-aged brain these days...