You had an affair, exposed yourself, and now your husband to a possible disease...<BR>if the OM was married, you may have destroyed his life and marriage,and you are not sorry??<P>If your spouse treats you like crap, as you say, then try to get him to change, if that doesnt work, get out of the marriage.<BR>You get what you put up with. He would not have treated you like that if he didnt think he could get away with it, you allowed it to go on by staying with him back then.<P>I am sorry it took an affair to make things better for you.<P>If you were my wife and did that for this reason, you would be on the curb.......<BR>but I never treated her bad.<P>I hope that you and your husband can survive this.<P>Ian

Hey KWAS...<P>Just to let you know, while your H was 100% responsible for his decision to have an affair(as was I), YOU were 50% responsible for the state of your marriage up to that point. And no matter what you say, I know it could have been you given different circumstances. One thing I firmly believe; it could happen to anyone given the right(or more accurately, the wrong) circumstances. I know this, because it happened to me, and I was the last person on earth either my W or I thought could do something like this. I was not a “creep,” and you’re certainly no better than I am. I am(and was) a good person who made horrible(and creepy) choices for a time, and am doing everything I can to make it up to my W. Not just by being contrite on the affair, but by helping make our life together *incredible.* <P>So do the work, make your marriage all it can be. The possibility can never be eliminated, but you can make your marriage SO good that the possibility dwindles into near invisibility.<BR>

Lone Star,<P>PLEASE leave me alone. I don't need to be talked to like a child or lectured by you. I'M SORRY for generalizing, OKAY? I will stop if you will. Deal? But why do you have to belittle me and call me names? What's up with that? Does that make YOU feel better? Don't worry about me and my husband. He doesn't feel like you do, so we will be fine. If he felt like you, then we'd be doomed. I'm not trying to tell you how YOUR wife won't stick around. Why do you think you have the INSIGHT into my life to tell me? If you can't post civily to me and I piss you off that much, then don't post anymore. <P>TheStudent and Covenant, I will email both of you tonight.<P>New Woman, THANK YOU for your understanding words. I know I flew off the handle, and that was wrong, but a person can only take so much. I will stop lumping everyone into one category. I hope some of the betrayed stop doing that too.<P>IOH,<P>Yes, thank you, my husband IS treating me better now. I'm very sorry I was invisible until he found out. I wish he would have been able to see me before, but he sees me now and I have to at least be happy that we have a chance. Before, we didn't.<P><BR>********************EVERYONE, I APOLOGIZE FOR GENERALIZING!!!!!!!*************************<p>[This message has been edited by PodPerson (edited September 28, 1999).]

PodPerson:<P>Whatever. I'm beyond reasoning with you. You can't be a jerk to people over and over again and not expect to get whacked.<P>I apologize for the jerk comment. Didn't follow my own advice.<P>Sorry you think you'd be doomed if you and your H thought like me. My W and I are 6 months into recovery, and we've done VERY well with my "doomsday" attitude. <P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<p>[This message has been edited by Lone Star (edited September 28, 1999).]

Hey Lone Star, pssssssst chill. Are you having a bad day or something? I don't think I've ever seen you call anyone names before. Come on, you're better than that. Patience. Remember? <P>PodPerson,<P>Question for you. Do you at least want to forgive your H? If so, then that's a start. With forgiveness will come your inevitable remorse. When you start to love your H again, you will be said for his pain, that I can assure you. Years of tearing down will take years to put back together. <P>You got off to a rocky start here on the forum, but I also think you'll begin to see things more clearly as time goes on and as you and your H continue to work on things together. Hang in there. <P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

Okay., Podperson,<P>YOu have stepped, no trampled on some people with a lot of caring advice. I really was sort of willing to let that go. And not post because I think that you are so very off base, but you said that you have not forgiven your husband but that God has forgiven you. WRONG!!!!<P>Please read Matthew 6:14-15. For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. (Now listen carefully ) But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive you your sins.<P>No maybes here, no room for if i do it later. Just very clear and simple scripture.<P>Now as for some of the othere stuff you have had to say. My H is an alcoholic and in the past 10 years I have been verbally and physically abused, subjected to the old silent treatment and then HE had an affair. But I forgave him. He was and is sorry. He didn't do it to punish me or get my attention. <P>God found a "hammer" to get his attention and bring out just what he was risking(ME) and my H is in an alcohol rehab. Learning to kick this and grateful that I still love him.<P>IMHO, you should have gone to counselling years ago, whetther he would or not. And breaking one of God's commandments is never a good way to go. No I am not perfect and yes I make mistakes, but I try to do my best everyday and I don't knowingly hurt any one.<P>And TNT is not tendervittles. She is a very wise and caring lady. So woman wake up. You have a long way to go and you will need some good advice along the way. She may just be the one to give it to you. Or talk to you all night when you need a shoulder to cry on, or maybe it will be Maya.<P>You are new. And I understand your anger at your H. But none of us have done anything bad to you. Please stay and experience the help that is unique to this board.<P>God bless you.

Correction, Dreamer:<P>I did something bad. I called her a jerk. I apologize for that remark. I still think she was misreading my posts and my intentions, and I hope that if she goes back and re-reads them, she'll see that my only intent was to help.<P>Regardless, letting my frustration get the best of me was wrong. PodPerson, I apologize for the name-calling incident.<P>Please come back and read my posts again tomorrow or the next day and see if they still read the same way to you. If they do, I'll try to do better about choosing my words.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Soooo..... would you guys all hate me if I confessed I was actually chuckling while reading your posts? <P>Okay now, hold on for juuuuust a sec so I can explain... <P>I've been here a long time now. Not the longest, but long enough to have seen alot. And, I did my time in cyberia before that. Trust me, I've seen alot. So I ask: Please gang, just sit back and look at yourselves. You might get a chuckle too.<P>I'm laughing at myself as well, yanoo. Yep, it's true. Surely I'd never stoop so low as to calling anyone names or getting riled over something someone posted. Okay, mea culpa. Mea culpa.<P>Thru the clarity of not being involved in this firefight, there are a couple of points of perspective I want to share.<P>First, I see a lotta good people here getting all torqued up. I like and respect many of you. And, some of you I don't know but chances are you're good people. All in all here, I see lots of caring, bright people with claws bared. Guess that's what I look like when D99 and I snarl at each other?<P>PP, I don't think you're a jerk. Heck I don't know enough about you yet to cook that up and I hate hasty pudding. But, you sure have been snarly on this thread. I doubt you're that ornery. Are you?<P>And Maya, LS, DAC, and Chris... we know each other quite well. Ya gotta laugh, right?<P>Hey you know me too. Not exactly a wallflower all the time when it comes to the text form of thrust-and-parry. Yep, I've been known to go for blood. And, sometimes I feel stupid when I do it. NOT that I'm calling aaaaaanybody stupid. Now, don't start that all ya'll! LOL<P>Here...I'll share a recent experience I had in my work. I run a small subsidiary biz of a larger North American company. I work for the CEO. He's a gem of a guy and a wonderful diplomat. Wowwa, what I learn from him!<P>Since I work at a satellite office, we frequently use email. Now I'm the type of guy whose tendency is to call 'em as I see 'em. I analyze well, draw conclusions and sell my points strongly. Well, I guess my "direct and forceful" style sometimes intimidates people and they get all reactionary.<P>Geez, not what I intended at all! I didn't mean to insult anyone. I didn't imply that someone wasn't doing their job. Heck, I just assumed we were all on the same team and that people cared as strongly as I did. I just wanna help us all do better! Geez, I never expected I had the ONLY idea, just that mine was a good one.<P>See what I mean? Sound familiar? My mentor suggested I be more careful about how I present my arguments. Not only what words I choose but the timing of how I deliver them.<P>Do I always take that advice? Naaaaaaaah. LOL<P>Food for thought.

Whodat<P>Thanks for your reply and honesty. I am just a month from discovery so I have a lot of sorting out to do. I will soak in as much as I can from this forum. I still am unwilling to take 50% of any blame as even my husband says he does not know what happened at that it is all his fault. I know we had some unresolved issues but not big. He does not allow me to think of blaming myself because he knows how many countless times I tried to reach him and how hard I tried and how much I loved him and my family. So in this situation..I am and will continue to be unwilling to take blame. However I do see issues and am working hard on them I am in counseling with H which is very hard I might add. But we have not separated and I am just now getting over feeling like a complete fool for not knowing and for trusting. I was there for him and his whole family and my daughter...I know it and he knows it. The sad thing is that I lose, some of the people I love the most in this world if it doesn't work out. Why do I lose?? Who knows...my H still cannot provide a clear answer as to why this happened he cannot believe he even did it at all (FOR TWO YEARS I say??) God help me I do so want to forgive him and have a light willing heart. Thanks again for it shows that there is guys out there that mess up but in the end really do love their wives. Gives me hope

Reading through this thread, I just thought of something. Maybe pod person doesn't want to forgive because she is afraid of feeling remorse? I don't know, but it sounds to me like she has some mighty high walls built up.<P>Pod,<BR>None of us have walked in your shoes. I think there's so much pain behind your anger. I lived a similar life to you, except it was my H who cheated on me. He ignored me for many years with his own selfish behavior and self-gratification, and then to top it off he cheated on me. Now I'm left with having to put the pieces back together. I have a lot of the same anger toward my H that I feel you expressing, but what am I to do with it? I read this forum and it seems most of the betrayed are really angry at the OP. I'm not. I'm furious with my H, almost to the point of where at times I want to do things to him. I have broken so many of his belongings. He had some fishing trophies he earned over the years, and I destroyed every one. Sometimes when he is at work, I go through his things and I throw away mementos that I know mean a lot to him. I feel so stuck in both loving him AND hating him at the same time. So anger, yeah, I understand that.<P>Don't be mad at the forum. Maybe someone here can help you. I'm with those who suggest you ignore the hateful and spiteful posts and stick to the ones who offer good, non-judgemental advice. There were plenty on this thread. Just ignore the others. Good luck.

Dunc:<P>Chomp, chomp. Thanks for putting it in perspective. Guess I do feel a little foolish for getting all torqued up. I needed a graceful exit, and you've given it to me. So . . . . the next sound you hear will be the door slamming behind me on this thread. <P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Speak the Truth in Love.<P>Maybe we should all put a post it note up on our moniters to remind us.<P>It's OK to have different opinions. It can even be OK tell someone either their actions or ideas are wrong. Or that their actions and ideas will not help them achieve their goal. That is helping and supporting each other with a wide variety of ideas and experience.<P>You cross over the line when you are either hurtful or you label them as opposed to labeling their actions. Hate the sin, love the sinner....or disagree with the action, be supportive of the person. And aren't we all just plain old wrong sometimes? I sure know I am.<P>And just in case someone forgets? Softly point out how we do things around here or just ignore it. Let's not get our panties, briefs and/or boxers in a bunch over someone's tantrum. They may need the help the most

FHL-<P>How right you are.<P>Sorry from jumping on you PP. The bible verse was good, I just should have said it better.<P>Mac and others you are right too. Let's leave the thread and start anew.<P>God bless

Pod,<P>I'm sitting in almost the exact opposite position as you are. My H is the one who treated me badly, and he is the one who cheated, but I am the one who booted him out on his sorry butt and he is the one who has made a complete 180 to make himself more acceptable to ME. So, it can swing both ways! How's this.... my H cheated and I'm NOT SORRY he did. Now I have a H who treats me with the utmost respect and dignity because he understands how close he came to losing me and his children. If he hadn't had the affair, he probably still wouldn't get it.<P>I guess it's just a good thing that he didn't feel like you do or we would have been at a standoff.

Podperson,<P>I wanted to write because I can feel your anger and I want you to know that I understand why you have felt compelled to look elsewhere for some affection. My H is the one who cheated, but considering the way he treated me, I should have been the one who did it. Maybe six months ago I would have hollered at you and called you every name in the book, but I know now how different things can be if all sides are considered. I am sure now, with almost certainty, that if I had been in the right position and found someone who gave me the love and affection I was craving I would have jumped and had the affair. I did not use to think that, but after much investigating into myself and our relationship, I now know that to be true. I don't like myself for it, but it does give me some perspective on how and why many others cheat.<P>Believe me, I can totally understand your reasons and I have even considered doing it myself if the pain does not get better. Thank God we are on the road to recovery and I hope you will be too. Just continue to be honest with your H about how you are feeling and encourage him to do the same. I wish you the best of luck!

To Pod:Please,please e-mail me ok,i also had an affair which lasted for 1 year,although we only saw each other once in person.We talked daily on phone for several months,i ended it sunday which was 2 days ago and have posted a few times on here also.I have a post on here i wrote yesterday i think i titled it said goodbye to other man and very very sad.....check it out.Can you please e-mail me as i don't want to get into this on here it is not a right place for me i have discovered by some replies i got.Anyways i also have icq but don't want to give my number over this public forum,but if you want to e-amil me my e-mail is chatwithu35@hotmail.com I have a very similiar situation which hubby found out about 3 months ago and has been a new man.......looking forward to hearing from you soon........JANICE

Why are you even on this forum? It <BR>doesn't sound like you are 100% <BR>committed to working on your <BR>marriage? You admitted that you <BR>would cheat again...go figure...

This is a fascinating thread. The bickering aside, and I know there's a bunch of them, but I urge everyone to read each post carefully before jumping in and adding to it. As a matter of fact, don't just read each post, but take time to pause and absorb it all before adding toit. This person started off extremely angry and defensive, but even within the context of this thread has already started retracting some of the more harsh things she said at first. <P>Most of us have lived with spouses and SO's for years, trying to get them to think, feel, speak and believe just as we do. Did it work? Of course not, or else we wouldn't all be here. But for some reason, I think we come to this forum we still attempt to use that same method, pushing and pulling at each other in an all-out game of tug o war, franticly trying to get someone else to share our truth, to believe as we do, and doggone it, if they don't, we proceed to read their lives to them. Well it didn't work with our spouses and SO's, so what makes us think it's going to work with anyone else? We can't make people be who we want them to be. We can't trick, persuade, or manipulate someone into believing exactly as we do. Isn't it pretty arrogant to even try? Or if not arrogant, it's awful presumptious how we tend to cast our doom on people and their lives based on their lack of sharing our truth. <P>Anger clouds a person's true feelings and sometimes we use anger to mask pain. I've seen it with myself, so I know this method of self preservation can only last but so long. I have seen miraculous things happen when people stop being angry, put down their defenses and start opening up. But this usually happens from within, and in our own time. We can't be manipulated to it by external forces.

Circular logic.

Imago,<P>I think you hit it pretty dead on with this one. (Why don't you post more often?) I've been in a tug-o-war with my H since the day we met, trying to get him to see things my way. It has never worked. I realize that he and I are never going to get along successfully until we both start allowing each other to be who we are. <P>I'm sure this forum attracts people from all different walks of life, all different races, religions, socio-economic backgrounds, lifestyles, occupations and educational backgrounds. If we see someone post something that we don't disagree with, then we start with the force-feeding of our truth onto them. And then we have the audacity to become angry when they don't immediately see things our way!! (I saw "we" because I know I've been guilty of this too.) I mean, how dare they not believe exactly as we do? How stupid are they? Well, good, fine, don't listen to me then. Hmmmph! And we storm off in a tiff. Wow. I don't know about some of you guys, but I've played this exact scenario over and over at least a million times during my marriage. Got us nowhere except caught in an endless ride going 'round and 'round.<P>PP,<P>If you're still around and can stand the heat, please stay. I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong for not feeling this or that or that you're wrong for being angry at your H. That's not my place. I do ask that you be patient with people on this forum. It does take great restraint. I practice it myself each time I come here. People are hurting and things are said. Just like the things you said in your pain. I loved what you said about "God not being finished with us yet." You are so right. God isn't finished with any of us, and as long as we keep hope alive, there is always room for change of heart. I sure hope you give the forum another try. Take care.<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.