from my very long "Harley is a smart man" thread .....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, I am hoping someone smarter than I ( BrambleRose ? ) comes along
.... because I am wondering if an otherwise addicted person can even reach the level of Buyer ....
I am thinking no .... I am thinking perhaps they are Renters on usually good behavior !!! *shrug*
anyone?
Was thinking about "Tiny" the new poster who is a WW (Was a Renter I think and became a Freeloader during her affair) and her H is an addict .... he has obviously NEVER been a Buyer ... was he a Renter and then a Freeloader as his addiction worsened?
any ideas?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and this too .....

~~~~~~~~

and Guideline 4
Choose the solution that meets the conditions of the Policy Of Joint Agreement --Mutual and enthusiastic agreement
~~~> regarding addiction <~~~
"But what can you do if you have agreed to follow the POJA, tried to negotiate for a mutually enthusiastic solution, and yet you or your partner keep behaving in a way that is objectionable to the other? This kind of thoughtless behavior may turn out to be an addiction "
"If one of you struggles with an addiction, you will find that the POJA simply cannot be followed until you have overcome the addiction."
"So if you have tried to follow my advice but can't seem to negotiate with each other regardless of how hard you try, addiction may be the culprit."

~~~~~~~~~~

I don't think an addicted person can be a buyer, because to be a Buyer, one must be able to make a spouse their primary relationship.

The primary relationship of an addict is booze, porn, sex, drugs...whatever.

I agree with the statement that addicts can be renters on good behavior.

Steve Harley told me that his definition of an addiction was any lovebusting behavior that the spouse was unwilling to POJA.

IE, a spouse unwilling to quit drinking for the sake of a marital relationship is an addict.

well this helps .... coz I was just "thinking out loud" on this one and needed some checks and balances ... and YOU are my prefered checks and balances woman !

and btw, I'm a renter <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know.

I am not.

But I would be if my H started drinking.

Yesterday H had a colonoscopy. It's been 10 years of sobriety for him. He acted so inebriated when he woke up. Said he had a "nice buzz" .... it made me more aware of my total inability ( unwillingness ? ) to accept a soused spouse ... I would hit Taker-mode at 100 MPH and never look back !

heehee. It just simply points out that there will always be that danger, that risk in him.

Sobriety is definitely a requirement for Buyership.

And unwillingness is the right word.

Well ... if my H had another A ... I would Plan B ... ASAP ... but if he began drinking .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ... I would Plan D.

I am unwilling to live with him drinking ...

I pray to GOD for his continued sobriety every day because my intolerance for drunks is just tremendous!

Do you think my attitude is unusual? Just wondering..... He is just such a fantastic SOBER person whom I love to bits and pieces ...

No, I think that you have a pretty healthy attitude.

I suspect, that your husband would probably begin drinking - and devolve to renter/freeloader before he was willing to have another affair.

I just went and read your thread (I didn't before, sorry!).

I find it interesting.

I think the number of self-identified Buyers is interesting.

I think that a Buyer/renter relationship is very very harmful.

LOL ... I noticed that as well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

.... and prolly NOT always accurate self-identification either ... but I decided to shaddup for once and just talk concepts ....


Harley says beware the Renter/Renter ... coz it builds incompatability

I find the entire subject fascinating ... and I am not yet done digging deeper into the ideas ... I like to chew on this stuff and regurgitate it in my own words ... better digestion that way (although regurgitate is not a pretty picture, is it)

doing that book study in front of the board has helped me personally in my private life ... some clarity based on concepts rather than instinct is always welcome !

Renter/renter builds incompatibility...yes.

Buyer/renter destroys the Buyer.

I guess I should really say...long term Buyer/renter destroys the buyer. (ie Plan A too long)

I think any long-term supression of our Taker is destructive.

Yep ~ hence the "renting" on my part.

Apologies for interrupting your dialogue, ladies, but just thought that maybe the sample got skewed cos the self-identified Buyers got in first, and the rest of us were too embarrassed to weigh in!

To be honest, I identified myself as a Renter, but when I thought about it carefully I concluded I had been a Buyer by inclination, but with only Renter tools at my disposal. My parents are Renter/Renter to a T - the big committment was to stay together no matter what, but the No Matter What has taken in decades of screaming fights, sulks and walk-outs. My mother tried to teach me to Give Until You Bleed, then have a well-deserved Taker tantrum. I declined to do this, but instead just got into overGiving to an overTaking <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Freeloader and draining myself dry.

For the past three years, I've been renting, with an option on buying. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> WH is still not a Buyer - he's got as far as Renting, and this has taken him a long way out of his comfort zone. 'Giving' is inimical to his family philosophy.

I think I need some more tools...

Thanks to you both, BTW. The board has been shrill lately - it is reassuring to have level heads around.

TA

There is nothing embarrasing about being a Renter ... in fact ... one of the things I was trying to emphasize was that Plan B is a RENTER'S agreement .... and that can be a very good thing indeed.

PS ..." interrupt" us at your will ... it is lively conversation that is so pleasurable <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yep. I am not embarressed about being a Renter.

I was going to say this before but then decided I not to...but now I have changed my mind...

I was struck by the tone that seemed to say Buyer = Good, Renter = Bad.

Well...I'm baaaaaad to the bone! But thats as far as it goes! <heehee>

And I thought to myself...well we can't all be homeowners, all the time! Sometimes, we just need to rent for one reason or another!

I would like to be a Buyer. I know that I could be a Buyer. But for the time being, I choose to continue renting! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />