I reworded my comments as I didn't mean to be insulting to your hopes here.

Goodluck with getting what you want......I do agree, that your wife's affair will eventually end....that is about 97% probable......Unfortunately, that doesn't always mean they (WS) want to come back, they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.....That is why this seems perplexing to me.....Can you really do Plan A untill this affair ends and still maintain your mental and emotional health? I have to question that.....but that is just me.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey Lem,

I'm basically in the same situation as DLK21 and also counseling with SH.

Do you have any better ideas? I'm not ready to give up on my marriage. I figure that I'll keep this up as long as I can handle it. Then what? I don't know... but I think that SH's plan offers people in this situation as much of a chance as possible (as much as any other idea that I've heard).

Well, with regards to Plan A or B...nope....... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Just asking some questions......I don't see any harm in just asking some questions.........I just find it a little "odd" that the PLAN B would be ruled out before the plan even started....I thought there was supposed to be a "limit" on Plan A and then a Plan B to "save" the BS love...hey, but that's just me....I'm a little odd...and a little slow.

During a Morbidity and Mortality Conference I have openly questioned a Harvard trained Cardiothoracic Surgeon with over 10,000 surgical cases and countless lives saved....and you know what hat "questioning" revealed...? Sometimes even the "experts" are wrong...just asking for some clarification is all. I didn't say that SH was wrong or that I had "better advice"......I was just asking some questions...I ofcourse hope that you get a chance to recover your marriage.


Goodluck,

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Okay, so I knew asking do you have any better ideas? would come off a little confrontational. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The truth is that I wish that there were something better that I could do. I dread the prospects of watching every last ounce of love I have for my wife (and possibly my sanity) drain out of me while she lives with another man.

I don't believe in any godlike powers of the "experts." I just have nothing better to go on right now. Questioning is good.

I respect the idea of a limited Plan A and then Plan B to save what love remains, but my only source of information at this point suggests that Plan B is usually a bad thing for a marriage when no kids are involved.



I know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

my only source of information at this point suggests that Plan B is usually a bad thing for a marriage when no kids are involved.

ncn....what is the reasoning behind this? Is it that the WS has no reason to contact you....or does not miss a family life that includes the kids....or what....????

Daisy

Well, the WSs find that it is possible to live without contact with the BSs. Of course they can; nobody needs anybody else to survive. But the WSs see this as further justification of their own thoughts and behavior. They feel like they can't live without OP, but now they find that they can live without BS. So, the A must have been the correct choice.

I'm rambling and not making a point. Anyway, SH (I believe) sees this as enabling the affair and letting them continue to compartmentalize their feelings by letting them put the BS out of their minds entirely. That doesn't mean that feelings aren't there, but if there isn't something to jog their minds into thinking of the BS (i.e. children, or some contact w/ BS), it can take an extremely long time for them to break out of the fog and take an honest look at their situation and their feelings.

Anyway, this is my basic understanding of what SH told me. I have no personal experience with this. It wouldn't be a bad thing to discuss if you talk to him.

I also see this sort of Plan A as an occasion to show her that I’ve changed by making Love Bank deposits thru meeting her EN that I’ve identified by reading HNHN and thinking of her and stopping all Love Busters. It is very difficult to deal with the Fog, the hormonal ecstasy of being infatuated with someone new that she is probably experiencing. A state resembling a drug addiction. This state of being in love to her lover makes my actions difficult to choose and imagine. That is why I found reading SHATTERED05’s thread so inspiring.

ncn....

I see, it makes sense....

Well, I guess I should not run off to plan B....yet at the same time keeping in touch with him is really painful to me and seems to keep me standing still....anyway, I am sure S.H will have some advice for me once I talk to him and I'll decide then how much longer to keep going....

Daisy

It’s very hard to say whether or not I’m making any ground. But yesterday I think there was a break thru. We talked 3 times about 20 minutes! In the first talk we exchanged on why I think our marriage is not terminal and why she thinks it is. We cleared up some misunderstandings and I had a chance to express how I care about her. She expressed that it is “killing her” that her leaving me and her “relationship” with OM is causing me pain. It seems she really thought I didn’t care about her anymore. I left it at that, she never changes her mind during a talk; it’s her way of saving face. I stated my peace, I did not argue or debate or try to convince her. I expressed my deep regrets for wrongs that she brought up.

In the other 2 calls, she was driving and did some small talk “EN Conversation” on her favourite subjects “ our nephews and our families, skiing and car safety, travel and just plain asked about what was going on in her life. I realised I can’t handle anything about her life with OM. I freak out but I try not to tell/show her, should I tell her?

Anyway I think my account in her Love Bank rose up considerably.

Please no one question my willingness to do a Plan A. I’m following the advice of SH. I have enough unsupportive opinions around me and SH asked me to not follow them because I have a chance.

Is saying I love you a love buster to a WW?

I have a strong need to have children and at 44, it was getting to be a big point of dissatisfaction in our M. How do people classify the need to have children in the EN? Is it like food, not an EM? I have not found a reference to this in the MB documents or in the 3 books I have from Willard Harley.

DLK21

I've seen several people suggest not saying ILY to your WS. I tend to agree with the logic that it's kind of a loaded and pressure-filled thing to say. It could cause your spouse to get defensive and feel like you're trying to corner her.

I think that it's better to say that you care about her. (But you know my situation, so don't listen to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

ncn
She asked me so often during our marriage to tell her ILY that it is hard for me not to try to make up for that now. EN affection.
What I find difficult is to end an Email:
Affectionately, take care, have a nice day, thinking of you, sincerely, Love,

I understand what you say. I feel that ILY sound a little needy. Anyway, if she is in love with OM, it could just be annoying to her. I don’t know. The fog…Women…

DLK21

I can not find this post from Tryingagain. The search does not help or am I doing something stupid? Any ideas?

NCN/DLK21,

I'm in a very similar situation, WH in deep fog, in love with OW and giving limited contact to me, definitely hands off as well PA- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . I am Plan A'ing, struggling with the thoughts of his behavior, but trying to keep myself clear and strong. I will think of you both as we all struggle with this, but knowing that there are others going through the same feelings gives me some comfort and hope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for posting.

I agree, the hardest is knowing how to control my thoughts, and just wanting to be there for his EN, something I was horrible at before. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Learning so much about myself and that I can find strength, and my WH find clarity...pray for it everyday. This is soooo hard but I'm fighting for this.

Van - I too am looking for the 'Tryingagain' post and can't find it. If anyone could forward or repost it that would be wonderful! : )

Hi sadinthecity I think this could be it!

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

Van

vanasvegen,

Yes that is it.

DLK21

DLK21,
I am trying to follow white_daisy and stu on their progress. It seems all our circumstances seems to be almost identical. That thread form TryingAgain has helped me a lot. I think we can learn from stu in the way he writes his e-mails to his WW.

Take care
Van

Just to recap where I am at.
We are December 2nd 2005. It has been nearly three months since my WW told me she was leaving me. It has been two and the half months since I found out there was OM.

There has been progress on a few fronts but overall the distance is making things extremely hard. We e-mail every day and we talk on the phone usually every week and one hour last Sunday . I find it very hard to get to the heart of the subject, that is her reasons for being with another man and leaving. I have done a lot of reading, I've identified what I believe to be her most important Emotional Needs. It is especially hard to meet her EN now that I am so far and that she accepts so little contact with me.

She has left with the book His Needs Her Needs and told me that she'll read it eventually. I can't pressure her to read it. That would be a Love Buster. Steve has asked me to ask her to consider "if it wouldn't be ideal if she was in love with her husband?".

Christmas is fast approaching, I feel so empty. I was often complaining to my wife that she was spending too much time with her relatives. After work, her studies there was very little energy left for our relationship. And now it's even worse. It's almost total silence. I wonder if she feels lonely to. I have to take care of myself and our relationship at the same time.

I miss her so much.

DKL21
Yep I know what you are saying about christmas approaching fast. Thanks for your post on my thread it gave me some hope.
Is your WW still in contact with your common friends. I think it would be good if WW could be informed that you are doing great, and takeing care of yourself as to say your life goes on kinda thing. I think this savety thing WW have by knowing that BS will always be there might keep them deeper or longer in the fog.
Now would be the best time to improve your self with out WW thinking you are playing games. So when WW comes out of the fog and WW is looking for that save rock in the ocean you will be there to sweep her off her feet.

But it is not good takeing advice from an idiot, see what the vets say like MelodyLane. I like her strait approach.

And if you did not miss WW then you would not have been here. So in your future she might read your thread and understand what is true love. Not this hollywood stuff.

Van
I'm a little bit confused about whether or not I should appear to be anything other than what I am feeling like. And I would like some advice on this.

On the one hand I've been feeling terrible, devastated by her affair, and her leaving me. I know this is upsetting her. I know she feels guilty, very guilty about this. And I believe she should. I don't want to play the martyr, and I do have to take care of myself, but it has been a very very hard few months. Somehow I feel it is to our advantage for her to be conscious of the consequences of her betrayal of our marriage.

On the other hand, I need to show her that I've changed. That I've learned from my mistakes. And also I need to show her that I am desirable and maybe as you say a rock: someone strong, stronger than this tragedy.

So you see, I'm doing a bit of both. To my friends and family, and even to her, I'm expressing those two realities of what is going on in my life. I am not chewing my words. I've told her explicitly that I do not believe our marriage is over or terminally ill. I e-mail her every day, she replies to everyone, or every second one. I try to phone her every time I think it is acceptable to her. I'm doing my best to let her know that I understand her point of you, I do this by listening closely to what she says and by reflecting it back to her. I offer for my deepest regrets for any hardship that we have been through, and especially for any sadness I might have caused her willingly because of my ignorance or unwittingly.

I feel a little isolated from our mutual friends. Some have clearly taken the side of "her wanting to be happy", most do not want to take sides, a few have taken the side of our marriage. Overall I must say, I'm not very good company at the moment and I'm not seeing friends very much. I'm more than a little bit concentrated on what's going on with my wife and me.

DLK21