Things are better. My H and I are talking a lot. I feel inclinded to make a big decision that does not involve seperation. I'm still thinking it through. Will share when I come to a conclusion. I feel like it is what I'm supposed to do, but don't know yet if I can actually do it. So before I even go there, I want to think it all through.

On another note. My job pulled the bait and switch on me. They hired me to work from home and now starting at the first of the year, they want me to come in 1 day a week. At first I was annoyed, but now, I'm actually looking forward to it. It will be a good 45 minute to 1 hour commute, but I find myself excited about the alone time in the car. I am also excited about the prospect of meeting some new folks and pouring myself into something other than being a BS for the last year. Maybe I'll even meet some hot dude...OK, bad joke!

Anyway, wanted to share something interesting I read in Stormie O'Martin's book called "Just Enough Light for the Step I'm On." She said whenever we face adversity of any kind we need to first look at what is RIGHT about the situation. Can you find anything RIGHT about our spouse's A? I will give you 1, they did not break up our family. Can you find any other things RIGHT about the situation.

The other VERY interesting point she made is that a lot of time adversity is an answer to prayer that did not manifest itself in the way we thought it should. After thinking that one over for A LONG TIME, I actually could see how that might be possible in my situation. Before my H's A, I wanted him to be more involved in the family, a better father, a better H. Now he is. MUCH BETTER at both. So maybe she is right. Can you guys see any of this in your marriage?

Anyway, I'm about to do a couple of hours of work before the kids go to bed and then I'm watching a movie with H while I do the Christmas cards and gift wrapping.

I need your addresses. E-mail me privately. You should all have it.

After a painful discussion with my H Wed. night I told him (AGAIN) how much I needed him to pray with me. That I am stuck and need a prayer break through. I was touched when I came home from a Christmas party last night at 11:30 and he told me he stayed up so he could pray with me before bed. I told him that made me feel very special...even more so than the production of our anniversary. I felt heard and I felt that my spiritual well being was important to him. We also started our devotional that I bought him for our anniversary. Very nice time together.

Thanks guys!
2

2, I sense some positive momentum building. Take your hands off the steering wheel and let God drive.

Can I find anything RIGHT about my W's A? If you are asking what "good" has come out of it...I would answer "YES." Pre-A marriage environment was no where near what it is today in the realm of considering the needs of the other. (i.e. workload vs. family time, Love Bucket, focus on P+E needs, spiritual growth 'together', open communication, etc.)

I am a believer that no matter how "innocent" we BS's say we are/were in our spouses making the decision to act on their A tempatations, we still had "some" part in it - in the fact that both partners help create their marriage environment. I know not all of you agree with me on this, but it is what I believe.

Cold here in Fla. Had to pull out my heavy coat as it dipped under 60 degrees yesterday. BRRR! (Not good for my kind of dancing profession). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

2,

Glad to hear things are a little better. I liked the ideas you shared with us from your book. I will have to look it up and read it.

The only thing I do not see as much is that I prayed everyday before the A for God to help bring my H back into his arms. I prayed that he would see God's grace and come back into the faith with me. So far, there has not been any movement towards that direction, and it does not look like it will ever be that way. I also prayed that God would show somebody that my H was worth giving a job...that did happen. BUT, since I knew my H was miserable everyday at work, I prayed that he would find a way to be happy. That happened, too...but I am not so sure God did that. I have wondered a couple of times since this, if God gave me an "out", so to speak, from my unequally yoked marriage, b/c he knew how much I wanted a marriage that had faith in it. If that is the case, then I guess I do not know how to listen. I hope that I am still doing God's will in staying here, and not my own selfish one.

Rocked,

Hee hee...you used the term "love bucket"! I agree that there is much more considering of the other's feelings, and needs in our marriage now. I think this experience has humbled us both, and hope we can work off of that.

60 degrees????? SHUT UP!!! Try 20!

Well, have a good Saturday.

True

Hmmm, could be why the books I have read lately call an A a "wake up" call...
Busy weekend.
Hope you all have a nice one.
"Buckets of love",
holiday

Surprised to see you all on here on a Sat. I've been working and getting some scrapbooking done. Thought I'd check in.

True, I too wondered if this was a "message" from God to get out of my marriage. But deep in my heart I know that it isn't...that is just the devil talking.

How interesting that as I pointed that out, we could actually see how there was some answer to prayer in the midst of all this. I guess it is all how you look at it. Stormie encourages us to look at things knowing God has our best interest at heart. So I am trying to do that. In case you have never heard of her, she is the author of the "Power of a Praying Wife" that was a big seller and then did Praying Husband, Praying Parent and some others. She is an easy read.

True, I am sorry that your H has not joined the faith with you, but do not be discouraged. God can do anything. You know that. Was he a believer before? I was under the impression that he never was. If he was a believer, why did he leave? Does he believe in God and not Christ? I'm just curious.

I am close to thinking things through, but honestly I am afraid to share because I am afraid I will backslide and you will all hold me accountable. I don't know if I'm ready yet to set up that BIG of a safeguard. Still working through this. It is pretty revolutionary. When I tell you what I'm thinking, you'll all wonder what happened to the 2 you knew. Pretty BIG thing for me to do.

Anyway, have a great weekend too.
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Hi, 2!

To answer your question, yes, my H was a believer when I met him. He was raised Catholic, and his mother is a very strong one at that. I think that might be what started his downward slide. I do not mean to take offense, but the Catholic religion in general is based on a lot on "traditions", so much so that in Italy, a lot of people feel there is not much God in the church...it is all about religion(I have heard this from some Christians who went over there to study). For some people, it is the traditions that make the faith so strong, but for others, it pushes them away. One of the things my H's dad said about me in the beginning is, "She won't last long, she isn't Catholic". The funny thing is that I AM Irish Catholic by ancestory. My father was the one who left the church after he married my mom, b/c she was not catholic and the church refused to baptize my brother b/c my parents were not married in the church. My father point blank asked the priest if he would rather my brother go to ******, and the priest said yes. Nice religion, there(and I do not mean Catholics, but that viewpoint).

My H actually does believe in God and I think he believes that Jesus was His Son..however, he does not necessarily believe the bible's version of the story. He thinks that Paul was a big fraud and took over the religion and made it what he felt it should be(I cannot say that I totally disagree with that). AND he does not believe in Satan or that God would end this world(revelations). You might know this about me, but I do not take the bible literally, and unlike most in the faith, I believe that there could be falisies in there. Afterall, it was written by human men, and not God. I know people say it was, but after much research on the topic, I tend to believe that God's word might have been misqouted, or twisted to fit what the society at the time wanted it to say...just as Christians believe that the Jews did this before Jesus' time, and that is why He came to save us. I do believe that the things told about Jesus are accurate, like a biography, but also know that the style of writing back then was not a literal style and that the Jewish culture had much symbolism in what they wrote.

And my H and I both agree that religion is a far cry nowadays from what Jesus might have wanted it to be. I see many churches and "religious people" using the faith to further their own greed and spew hate on others. There is very little of Jesus' sermons in a lot of Christianty nowadays...now, do not take me wrong...I do not believe that all people and churches are like this, but it just a growing trend that has bothered me. All religions are guilty of using their beliefs to do harm...and it is not right whether you are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or anything else out there...hate and intolerence are just that...but it is often "fancied up" to make it sound nicer. A prime example of what I am talking about is here in the midwest there is a church that has been having anti-gay protests outside of soldier's funerals. Can you believe that? I wrote about this on my blog...A man used his beliefs to justify what he was doing. I know that this kind of idiocy is a minority...but just look how our president does the same thing everyday, and how a lot of people look up to him for it b/c it is part of his belief system. That is where, sorry Rocked, I do not see how Christian people like this man...he is so against what I think Jesus preached about(and I will be humble enough to say that I could be wrong, but until someone can prove to me me otherwise, I will take my stand).

One of the things that has upset me most about my H's A, is that when we first started dating, my H would have never thought sex outside of marriage was right. We did have pre-marital sex, but when we decided to do that, we made a vow to each other and to God that now we were married and that our lives were linked to one another. It was that important. He believed once we had sex, we were married in God's eyes, and that is all that mattered. I do not know how this man got to the point of believing now that sex outside the marriage is ok, and that sex does not bond people together. It amazes me that he changed so much, and it hurts too...I almost feel like it was a bait and switch after marriage.

Well, now you all know more about my views and I am sure I will get some responses...that is ok. I did not write this to use it as a rant on the church or whatever, it might show you how I live with a man who is not "Christian". We share a lot of the same beliefs about religion today, just mine tend to gravitate more to the traditional side than his.

2, never be afraid to share...that is why we are here. We will support you in anything you decide.

Have a great Sunday.

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi True,

I grew up Catholic. In my personal opinion it is a bad religion. That is why I left (yes, for several years church free) but then God called me to just plain Christianity and I love how much sense it makes and how wonderful of a belief system it is.

I did a study last year on the life of Paul by Beth Moore. I found him to be an amazing man and truly a lover of our Lord and Savior. Where did you get the impression that he was a fraud?! Also, I personally as a Christian don't believe the early writings by the Jews (the Old Testament) is anything other than the word of God too. Not twisted, not misquoted, just the truth. The difference is Christians believe Christ fulfills the Old Testament writings, Jews do not. But we all agree that the Old Testament is the word of God.

Jesus' message was Love. First and foremost. I agree with you True that many religions distort Jesus for their own purposes. That is why it is SOOO important, that we as educated Americans with freedom to practice our faith, read the Bible ourselves and understand its meaning and how WE interpute it. Not what others say. After reading the Bible myself, I came to the "belief" that homosexuality is a sin (because it says so right there in the same scriptures where it says adultry is a sin). But just like I don't want my H stoned for what he did, I'd never expect a homosexual to be treated any way but lovingly by Christians. That is my belief. And maybe your H's distorted view of sex came by justifying pre-martial sex with you. Come on! You weren't married plain and simple!

Yes True, people change and unfortunately it is not always for the good. We have found that out. I also learned like the story of the Lost Sheep, God will come for you. He came for my H and did not stop until he had him. My H has often recounted the number of times God came for him and he ignored it. Then God said "You can't ignore this...your wife is going to find out!" Maybe the A was 1 wake up call for your H. If it didn't work, he may send something else. Imagine how you responding in a Christ like way could led your H back to the Lord. Seeing you model Christ forgiveness and knowing that you would not, could not forgive him without your personal relationship with the Lord. That would be a HUGE testimony to your H that Jesus does in fact LIVE!

I'm not ready yet to share. I don't feel led to at this time. Do want to let Holiday know I may be back in Vegas with some girlfriends the 16th-17th of Jan. Keep you posted.

True, I will say a special prayer for you guys tonight. Try the Power of a Praying Wife by Stormie O'Martin. It was a really popular book a few years back. The best thing about it is you can do a quick 5 minute chapter a day and then re-do the book over and over because it will never go out of style.

We are doing fine.
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Hi 2,

Thanks for your response.

The only thing that I really disagree with is the fact that you say we were not married when we had sex. Does marriage only come when you stand up in front of your friends and get a piece of paper from the judge? No. My H and I made a vow to God on the night that we slept together. We did not do it in a moment of passion or teenage hormonal whatever...we meant it. I believe that vow to God and to each other is stronger than standing up and promising it in front of a bunch of people. You may think that we were not married, but from that day forward, I assure you that I believe we were and so does he...the big wedding was for nothing more than allowing our families to participate.

I think you also misunderstood what I was saying about the Jews....I got the impression from Jesus' teachings that the Jews had been misusing the laws that God set forth. They were turning more to the rituals than to what the rituals meant. That is why Jesus got upset at the religious leaders of that time, was it not? I may be wrong, so correct me. I am not saying that the Jews wrote the Old Testament meaning anything bad(although I guess I do believe that it is more poetic than literal)...just that along the way things got distorted, which is why Jesus was sent to make a new covenant with the followers of God. Again, maybe I am misinterperting what the bible says, or just plain read it wrong...I am not bold enough to claim that I know it all, or even a fraction of it all, for that matter.

Like I said, I know my own personal beliefs about the bible are not the Christian norm, and I would never try to convince you of my way, just as I hope you do not try to convince me that every word in the bible was spoken by God. I have a strong belief in God and in His Son Jesus, it is the humans of the world that I have issues with, and yes, Paul is one of them. I do not think he was a fraud, and believe that he was a true believer in Christ. I am not saying that he was not(my H believes those things), I am just saying that I question any man who "adds" to what Jesus taught. Unless he was standing next to him and said, "So what your saying is...?", then his interpretation of the teachings could be subject to his own upbringing, beliefs or whatever. Just ask two people to recount what happened at any given event...you will get two different stories...just as the gospels are told differently....people see things differently. It does not mean that any of them are false, it is just the perspective that each person brings to it. Does that make any sense?

You also have to remember that I lived in Utah for 6 years and saw how easily people conformed to that religion. When you see people flocking to a religion that you do not believe in yourself, and cannot understand it, you start to wonder about your own(no offense to any mormons out there). It made me question Christianity in a whole new way. I could see some of the arguements that non-believers bring to the table in a whole new light. I also have a scientist for a H who will use a lot of scientific facts and methods to disqaulify any "proofs" brought forth by religious people. When I read "The Case for Christ" I was so excited about what he wrote and shared some new found things with my H...he, in return, discounted every single one of Lee Stroble's "proof". Every single one. Same thing for all of Lee Stroble's books, and now even at the mention of L.S. my H scoffs and tells me what a moron he is. My H really thinks that people who have all these religious beliefs are idiots. And do not get me started on the intelligent design debates that are coming up...although I tend to agree with him on that one.

Anyway, I know we will all argue about religion, and I know that I am in the minority when it comes to the beliefs that I have, but I do like a good-hearted debate, and do enjoy your answers as well. Well, the marriage one got me a little fired up, but I still appreciate the time you took to write it down!

Share when you want...or never if you want. Like I said, we will support you in whatever you decide.

Have a nice night.

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for clarifying about the Old testament. You said it right. The people were too caught up in rules and rituals and completely missed the point. As do Catholics and the Mormans are just plain a cult as far as I'm concerned. You can't follow Christ and the teachings of another man.

I won't debate you on what a marriage is. If you feel your were married, good for you. Your case would never stand up in Judge Judy's court! Whether it will in God's, I don't know...but the good thing is he'll forgive you if you were wrong. I flat out did it before I was married. So I know I was wrong!

Anyway, we'll pray for your H.
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Thanks again 2 for your response.

It has been one year today. Offically at around 9 am. Do you guys remember that moment with clarity? My H and I were talking about it last night...and I can remember that moment so clear. It is not just a flashback of what happened...it is like I am there again, and I can feel the exact emotions that I felt when he told me. I even remember the smell in the room.

Anyway, I think it is has the makings to be a pretty rotten day. My back got hurt, I couldn't sleep last night b/c of it, so now I am tired, I have not been able to exercise like I was, I have gained 5 of the 20 pounds back, my in-laws are coming in 2 days and the house is a disaster, and today is the anniversary that my marriage took a major hit. I hope it gets better, and please forgive my wallowing.

I will try to check in later.

Thanks for your prayers, 2.

True

Sorry you are having a yucky day. This too shall pass.

I think I remember telling you guys the exact opposite of my d-day. It is all a blur. I remember calling her, I remember my heart sinking as she told me the truth, I remember calling my H numb to tell him I knew and then hear him tell me in more detail everything OW had. I knew at that moment my life would never be the same, and I really believed that my marriage was over. Then the rest of the day is a blur. I know he called me about an hour later to tell me he quit his job and I remember thinking "great. What am I going to do without his child support?" and the rest of the day is black. I don't remember what I was wearing, what the kids were doing as my life fell apart or even what the weather was like outside. I have a few scenes in my head, but honestly, I don't remember if they were on actual d-day or in the weeks that followed. It was all a blur.

I will say an extra prayer for you. I got through my d-day pretty darn easily. I only felt like falling to pieces that morning, but then the rest of the day was fine. So I hope you feel better.

2

I don't either want to get into any debates about religion or politics right now (the 2 things that tend to divide our group the most)...but True, I am curious as to the counter-evidence your H could give to disprove "every single one" of Strobel's evidences (not proofs). And Christians just being plain idiots doesn't count as one.

I was also a strong Catholic until the age of 24, right before we got married and after 3 months of Catholic pre marriage classes to be married in our church. I too believe them to be a sad/bad religion. Very money and not people oriented.

I have to disagree with homosexuality being in scriptures as a sin.
The Bible does not concern itself with sexual orientation. I go round and round with my Christian brother on this note.

As for d-day, I was clouded. I almost forgot the day. Talking with my H he did say he noticed I wasn't feeling right.

Have a question? How does one pray for an Atheist?

The scriptures are pretty plain, Holiday...not sure where your disagreement on homosexuality lies?

How does one pray for an Athiest? Same as for anyone who is not a believer. That God would open their eyes to how much He loves them and wants them to experience a relationship with Him. Praying also that God would give them a desire to seek. Granted, it may be a long journey of seeking, but 'true' seekers will discover Truth and ultimately God. Scripture promises us that.

Rocked,

I would have to get out the book and look through it to tell you what he said. He did not chalk it up to people being idiots, he is much too good of a debater to slip like that. Let's just say that after listening to what he said, I was so saddened that he did not find the "evidence" as awesome as I did while I was reading it.

He always tells me that you cannot argue with a devout Christian, as they will always throw something back in your face about the bible or whatever...but it is just as hard to argue with someone that will not believe in evidence in the other way. Just as many Christians will deny evidence right in front of them that goes against the bible(evolution, for example), so do agnostic/atheist people. It is very frustrating, b/c on one hand I have my father, who is very Bible oriented and has really turned his life to Christ in a more fundamentalist way(and he is a Republican at that!) then you have my H on the opposite side who believes that fundamentalists are a bunch of kooks. My mother and I tend to gravitate towards the middle. Although, she is a little more conservative than me...but believe it or not, I am conservative on a couple issues...in fact, I really liked John McCain, and could have voted for him until he sold out to the moron who is now in charge. There will always be some things that I will disagree with the Rebulicans/Fundamentalist(and yes, you can put those two in the same category b/c I guarantee that all F's are R's...although I know not all R's are F's), but I TRY to remain respectful of others, and the president doesn't count <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> (it is not his religion that I disagree with anyway).

Anyway, Holiday, were talking more of the teachings of Jesus? I do not think he specifically addresses homosexuality. In fact when I referenced it in my Bible computer program(given to me lovingly by my father), I found only one reference to it...in Leviticus 18:22. This is the only reference in where it is claimed that God said it himself(spoken through Moses). The other references I found were not being spoken as if God spoke of them but as "reminders" of how to stay "good". For me, that is enough for me to question it's validity, or to at least study it more.

Well, yesterday was not a bad day, but I was drugged up on pain meds for my back, so who knows if it would have been. I did not get the day I wanted with my H...but then again when is life ever liked you planned it. There is a song by OutKast...one line says..."You can plan a pretty picnic but you can't predict the weather"...to me, that is what I have had to learn this last year, but I would like to add, that the picinic could just be changed to indoor and might not be the same, but still fun, in fact maybe more enjoyable in many ways.

I can't believe that I am the only one who can remember d-day so clearly, but that is how I remember most traumatic events. The night my grandfather died is engrained into my head as well...not, the whole night, but just as I was told he was gone. That was the worst night of my life until I found out about the A.

Hope all is well in your lives today.

Talk with you soon.

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

p.s. Oh, btw, I talked with Dogmom the other day. She is doing ok in her new life. She is offically divorced, and seems happy. ALthough, I suppose appearances can be misleading, as we all know. Just thought you might be interested. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Stopping in to say Hi! Got to get to work now.
2

If we are created in God's image and we do not know for sure if he is man or woman, how would we know which image to be? Perhaps, if we were created in God's image "spiritually", why would being gay be any different?


The Biblical condemnation of homosexuality is based on human ignorance, suspicion of those who are different, and an overwhelming concern for ensuring the survival of the people (sounds like a $$ loss for the Catholic church).

Homosexuality is not a matter of free choice, nor a deliberate rebellion against God.

If homosexuality is a sin, why would God create someone he could not love and knew would be a sinner? Why would God create someone not in his own image?

Leviticus 18:22 has the writings : do not lie with male as you would with a woman. However, it does not state for woman not to lie with another woman, so would that mean lesbianism would be permissable.

John 10:16
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

I don't believe God finds sin in a person truly loving another person no matter their sexual orientation.

On another note...:)
Making cookies. Hope you all have a great day...

holiday

Hey just remembered I wanted to give you a movie warning. Spanglish and My Country both have cheating spouses. Both movies SUCKED in my opinion on how it was addressed...especially Spanglish. The only good movie about infidelity that I saw before my d-day was Unfaithful. WHAT a great movie! And the reactions are so good. I thought so then and watching it after d-day I thought so again. If you haven't seen it, you may not want to cause there are lots of raunchy sex scenes with the lover. But it really is a good movie. The BS gets some good revenge too, depending on how you look at it!

Anyway, My Country is about the Truth and Reconcilation Hearings that took place in South Africa after Aparthied. What a great concept! What a great way for the country to have handled such devestation to its people! I found it inspiring and encouraging in my own marriage. Not a GREAT movie, but a GREAT story since it is based on the true stories of what happened to people there. I was already starting to look at my recovery differently after my last MC session and that movie just reaffirmed my belief that I'm heading in the right direction. The only thing NOT good about the movie was the Affair between Samuel L. Jackson and the white woman reporter. Can you believe I sat the whole movie long wrapping presents with my H and never even commented on it...in either movie!

Anyway, I forgot that I wanted to share that. A few weeks ago both of those movies would have sent me raving!

On another note, OW got passed up for a promotion. She was next in line because she has been there the next longest, but the new director (the manager under my H when he was there) promoted another girl instead. HA! Karma is nice. Actually my H said the rumor is she is leaving to go back to school. I don't believe it. I know her birthday was some time this month and then Christmas and New Year. I think she is waiting for a ring from her live in boyfriend. If that happens, she is not going anywhere. So good thing hubby left. He enjoys the fact that he took off work today (cause he's the boss) to go Christmas shopping. Isn't that nice?!
2

Holiday, those are good questions. I don't have any more time for today or I'd share my beliefs too. I respect your opinion. I'm glad we all feel open enough to share...even if we don't agree. Hope to be able to have some time tomorrow. Take care, everyone.

BTW, I'm feeling better and better with my W. The revolting memories are still there but it seems we are much more centered on the "now" and moving forward.

Holiday I guess we were writing at the same time. I didn't see your post until now. Boring day at work from home. I feel like I'm going round and round. I need something new to do.

I am going to address this homosexuality issue ONE time only and answer your questions Holiday with my personal belief. Asking why God would create someone he knew would be a sinner is asking why would God create ANYONE! We are all sinners! That is also like asking why would God allow people to be born Jewish or Muslim if he could not love them. God loves us all. But he also gives us free choice to accept his son or not. Many people born into Christian families do not accept his son either. So it can be an even playing field.

You quote Leviticus and that says it all. So then are you saying gay men are sinners but gay women aren't? The Bible (as do medical textbooks today) refer to he/him or man to refer to all of mankind. It didn't get specific about women laying with other woman because it didn't need to. The point was made.

You say homosexuality isn't a choice or a deliberate sin against God. You make that a blanket statement but it isn't. I think it is and I think the Bible supports my position. We have free choice to accept Christ, have affairs or not, have sex with children, have sex with the same sex. We can even have sex with animals if we want! But that is NOT what God wants. He makes it clear what he wants in the Bible. Homosexuality isn't one of them.

You say you don't think God can find sin with one person truly loving another person. Then is it OK for our WS to have loved the OP? Is bigamy OK? One man can love multiple wives they say. What about Mary Kay Leuturnou (sp?) loving her 12 year old student?

Holiday you are a BIG believer that our WS did not love OP. It was lust and I believe that is what homosexuality is, pedophilia is and infidelity is. I think it is a choice and just like our WS gave into the sin of infidelity because the temptation was too great (maybe), I think homosexuality is the same thing. Some people have sexual desires toward the same sex, children or swinging, but we are not supposed to give into it. Just like all of us have had the opportunity to cheat on our spouses, we didn't. A choice.

But God loves us all. And I believe that a homosexual can be a Christian, just one choosing to sin. My H was and still is a Christian, so is Rocked's wife even though they were living a "sinful" life. I was too I'm sure, just not in such a destructive way. But as a Christian I believe it is our responsiblity to live as Christ like as possible, so our WS failed and a believing homosexual would fail, in that regard too. We all sin, but we are supposed to try not to. That is why I haven't had any A's or done any swinging. Heck I like sex as much as the next person!

Anyway, I know nothing will change your mind unless you are open to it. So that is why this is my last point on the issue. The point about living as Christ like as possible and the earlier point about the Truth and reconcilation hearings in S. Africa have a lot to do with my recent perspective on my life, marriage and recovery. I've just given you an earful, so I'll finish that point another time.

Gee, guess I'm really board with work today!
2