Hi Stu,

Is there a possibility that your WW could be reading these posts? I know you mentioned MB to her. Did you tell her you were coming to the forum here?

Lady

I mentioned the website, only asked her to go through the basic concepts. I don't know if she even looked at the website tho. Certainly hope she doesn't discover my posts here on the forums. Names have been avoided, so hope she doesn't pick up on this thread.

Okay.... that's what I was hoping too, that she doesn't see this thread.

I am surprised at the advice given you via a pastor. Most pastors have never experienced such a thing, so it difficult for them to understand the principles of MB. But we that have been here realize most of the principles here are biblical.

Hoping you get answers soon stu.

Lady

Stu,
I guess I have not been able to bring myself to hire a PI. I already feel enough quilt about checking his email. He trusted me with it and I do feel that I have gone too far by going there now and reading what he has to say. I did not find any evidence of an A. He has contacted his Ex-girlfriend recently (just 3 weeks ago) and unless the two of them are talking regularly over the phone there has only been one respond from her and it was just a general 'this is what I am up to now' kind of a letter...

I still check that account, but then I do have the guilt...and for some strange reason hiring a stranger to follow him around seems worse to me....it probably is the same as reading him emails though......

Anyway, I do hope that you don't find out anything that would cause you further pain.....

I have been thinking recently of talking to my H and telling him my feelings, but fear of what I will hear has kept me from doing that.....I have realized that that same fear has led to the mess in our M to begin with. I am ready to talk. I am glad I have read what you said to your W. It is such right timing, I am glad I found your threat...it gave me more courage to do what I need to do.

I am giving myself till the end of next week. He works a lot so is difficult to get a hold of and then it is his B-day on Wednesday so I want to wait till next weekend.....I do want to think about doing this and give myself a week to get strong.....I waited 3 months, what is a week....

Anyway, enough about me....sorry.....

Good luck with the PI.....

Daisy

Daisy, yours is very inappropriate, misplaced guilt. It is wrong to lie and cheat; it is not wrong to CATCH someone lying and cheating. Do you believe that spouses have the right to the privacy to destroy their spouse behind their backs?

Believe me, they do not. If your spouse is lying to you and withholding pertinent information about your marriage, then you have an obligation to investigate in order to protect yourself. The one who is really guilty is the one who is lying and cheating, not the one who CATCHES him doing it.

There is no virtue in sticking your head in the sand while someone harms you in secrecy. Doing that makes you an accessory to the crime and a contributor to your own demise. Not a wise path.

You need the proof not only to relate to her more productively, but also to convince the people you will expose to
He's not out to convnce anyone of anything. He simply needs the proof for himself.
He does not need to (and should not) show anybody any "proof" he may come up with.

Besides, half the people he tells will do absolutely nothing different and a few of his "friends" will tell him he's better off without that *&$#(.
Just state the facts, do not try to convince others and don't look for a response .

He simply needs to tell his wife "I know what is going on" and leave it at that. She WILL deny, even with picures/audio/video, so don't try to convince her.

Stu, I hope you won't tell BIL you are hiring a PI. Don't tell family or anyone. You don't need any chance of WW knowing what you are doing.

Lady

Melody....
I agree with you....

Yet what if I hire a PI and the truth is that there is no A and that he actually was telling me the truth all along that all he wanted was to have his space and that he was not involved with anyone else? What then? How do I live with myself....how do I justify hiring someone to spy on him? I am afraid I would feel more quilt....is there something I am not seeing.......I really would like to hear your thoughts on this......thank you.........

Daisy

white_daisy,

I know your question is asked to Melody, but I just want to give you a word of advice too.... Just because it's on my mind. :-)

You hire a PI based on your suspicions, it doesn't mean your suspicions are right or wrong, because you don't know for sure...That is why there are PI's to find out for sure for you. I think it will give you and answer to your suspicions whether they are right or wrong. At least it will clear this up for you.

Lady

Daisy, I appreciate your posts. Your sitch is very similar to mine, so I it's very appropriate to post here. I'm glad my sitch can give you some courage to rock the "status quo"

At this time I'm not sure what to do with the evidence if I find any...
Do expose her A to her family or not? Well, one step at a time I guess

Daisy, if you find out he is innocent, then you exonerate him and move on. There would be no need for guilt. The purpose of investigation is not to find an affair, but to find the truth. If you find out he is not having an affair, you have met your goal.

Stu, we will help you use this intel strategically. You would want to expose the affair to her family, your family, close friends and to any key family members of the OM, where it makes sense. The purpose is NOT revenge, but destruction of the affair. Exposure is ruinous to affairs. But when you find out what is really happening here, we can help you determine how best to use the information.

I disagree. If he goes and tell their mutual friends and WW’s family that there is an A going on they most likely will not believe him. Saying that’s what he believes or that he has a hunch that this is so will not be sufficient in their eyes. He needs to be credible in this regard if he is to be successful in enlisting their help to bust this affair. The only way he can be credible here—after he is inevitably asked how does he know that there is an A—is by telling them that he has proof of the A. Some won’t care, but some will.

No, the point is not to convince the WW, but to convince those who may be in a position to help to put pressure on the A.

I guess the only problem with exposing to W's Family is that I don't discuss our situation with them, and as far as they are concerned, we ARE divorced. Because she has led them to believe that, but she doesn't really communicate her personal life with them either. Since she was living at her parents house during that time, I'm sure her parents gave her a lot of pressure about what she's doing with her life. For the last ~10 months that we actually were seeing each other and spending time together, she did not want me to tell anyone. I think perhaps leaving her pride a backdoor to save face for herself if we don't work out. So she doesn't look like a "fool" for staying in the relatioship.

So when people tell you you something, you always ask them for proof?
No.

The only way he can be credible here—after he is inevitably asked how does he know that there is an A—is by telling them that he has proof of the A.
Yes, but he does not need to trot out evidence with dates/times, etc. No one is gonna want to see this, just as he should not get into details with all these people. He could talk with a CLOSE male friend about the nitty gritty but it should not be his main topic of discussion with everyone he knows.

In this case, his wife moved to another city.
That in itself is good enough for most people that something is likely going on.

Beside, you start throwing around all kinds of stuff and it goes from exposing the affair to revenge. As Melody pointed out, that is specifically what you do NOT want to do (or even be seen as doing).

You want to let people know she is having an affair and that you want to remain married and you are not doing it for revenge but to end the affair so you can save your marriage.

To be honest Chris, I do not see how we disagree...unless you are assuming things I did not intend. It may just be a question of semantics, since we seem to agree on the underlying steps to be taken once he confirms the existence of the A.

Well had a long chat with PI in SF and so here goes nothing... This is gonna get expensive since I don't have her apartment address.

Stu, I'm glad to see you've decided to hire an investigator. After 14 months, it's time to find out what is going on...past time. As for how to find a PI, here's a website with some do's and don'ts that I found with a quick Google search:

http://www.spiesonline.net/how-to-choose-a-private-investigator.shtml

There is a lot of information out there. I got over 20,000 hits on the search string {"private investigator" +"how to choose"} and you might find more.

PI's come in all sizes and flavors. Some, for instance, specialize in electronic surveillance and are quite expensive. Some are more experienced than others; some aren’t worth a plugged nickel. You’ll need to decide what you want the PI to do, then call a number of them in your area to find out if they can do that job for you and what their rates are.

Good luck, pardner.

Stu....
Just out of curiousity what $$$ are we talking about with a PI? I have no idea ....do they work on an hourly basis? I would be curious to know, but I understand if you don't want to get into the details.....

Good luck though!

Daisy

Daisy, PI prices vary widely, not only by what services they offer but by locality. For instance, here in San Antonio, TX, a fairly decent investigator will run you $35 an hour. In NYC, it might be $100 an hour or more. Also depends on the job they have to do. If you're talking a full-scale electronic surveillance with lots of fancy equipment and experts to man them, it can get expensive quick. But if all you need is a picture of your SO walking into a restaurant arm in arm with someone, that's just a matter of an investigator sitting around waiting for an opportunity. That's not rocket surgery and an agency won't have to assign their best and brightest to it. Low tech = lower cost. BTW, don't expect a PI busting into some motel room and snapping pictures as fast as his finger can move. That's pretty much illegal and only happens in the movies. To get back around to the question you didn't even ask ME, call around to investigative agencies in your vicinity and see what they have to say about their services and price list. Check out that site I showed Stu for some pointers and maybe work from there?