All the more reason to expose to them. They would be a superb exposure target.

Daisy & Longhorn,
Thank you for the link I'll look into that. I've already given a lot of info to this guy, hope he doesn't do anything bad with that info (eg identity theft stuff) if I don't use his services now after reading your thread.

Well, I don't know if this guy is any good, I can't even meet him face to face because of distance. I'm just gonna send a check for the retainer of $750. His hourly rate is reasonable @$55/hr. Most in that area are >$65/hr. But what does the hourly rate really mean anyways...Not like I could confirm his timesheet anyways.

Longhorn....

Thanks for the info!...I'll check out the site you gave out....


Stu....
That is exactly what I think.....not like you can confirm even if you lived in SFO! But lets hope he is honest.

I looked in the yellow pages and found a bunch a female PIs specializing in catching a cheating man....

I am not too sure right now whether to go this way.
My friend tells me that since we are M H has to tell me if he is seeing anyone. But there is a part of me that feels that since we are living seperate lives he could just say I am doing what I want, we are not together anymore, etc.....I don't know what I would say to that....but than our law says if there is sex it is an A, period.

Anyway, I hope this guy can confirm it one way or another for you.....Will he start working on it next week?

I guess you'll know soon....

Daisy

My friend tells me that since we are M H has to tell me if he is seeing anyone. But there is a part of me that feels that since we are living seperate lives he could just say I am doing what I want, we are not together anymore, etc

My friend tells me the samething about getting the answer from her. But its obvious that she hides behind this "principle" that she created, about us being separated, that she has moved-on therefore her personal life is not in the realm of information I can ask her about. Therefore she doesn't have to dignify my questions with an answer one-way or another. To illustrate her point, she even quoted a movie called Contender in which political figure was met with a false accusation of group sex during her college years. This politician would not answer the question either way because her principle was that, this issue is not relavent to her career and she would not dignify their accusations with any response. It was quite a frustrating conversation.

Stu, the comparison to that movie might mean something IF you were living in some alternate reality where movies are real life, IF she was a political candidate AND IF you were a reporter asking the questions. Movies are fantasy, for Pete's sake. Since none of the above apply, you certainly DO have a right to ask your wife about her so-called private life. To me, that she doesn't want to tell you what has been happening is a red flag meaning something harmful to the marriage has been going on.

BTW, I think I remember that movie and my memory is that the candidate HAD been engaging in group sex. Hmmmmmmm, it wasn't a very good movie, I hate to go rent the darned thing to check my recollections. Anyone else recall that movie?

Stu,
Since you talked to the PI, can they obtain long distance phone records.....all this talk of PI today forced me to go look at my phone records when H was cat sitting for me in Sept for 3 days. Found a phone number, turns out it belongs to his ex-girlfriend (he has said - not to me - that he feels one day they will end up together)....so I guess I am curios if I did get a PI would they be able to get phone records.....


Yes, my H basically told me I had no right to show up at his place without calling first....At the time I said "I thought we were at a place where we could just drop by without a call"......yet he did have the nurve to show up at my place at 4 in the morning last month....I basically woke up to find him in my bedroom! I guess they have the right to privacy but we don't.....

Daisy

BTW, I think I remember that movie and my memory is that the candidate had been engaging in group sex
I think at the end one of her aids asked her privately about the accusation and she said they were false and yes it would have been easier to just say the truth but she stuck to her principles and did not answer the questions.

Daisy
I didn't ask about long distance phone records with my PI because I have no access to her records. And to me phone records wouldn't prove terribly much anyways because if she is in an A it would be local to where she is and she wouldn't need to spend much time on the phone.
Your H's actions with coming over unannounced but require prior notice for you to show at his place is quite a disturbing one.
When we are the pursuer, the power fully rests on the other spouse, they have all the control, and they tend to feel like they make up all the rules of the game. Thats why when I asked my W to move stuff out, she became enraged, because then she lost the control. I don't know how to not push her over the edge but staying at the same place for me is insanity.

staying at the same place for me is insanity.

This is how I feel....

I am so tired of this status quo we seem to be in. I cannot go on like this. The friends thing is just too much....

Daisy

Daisy, is your name still on the account for the phone whose records you're wanting to access? If so, you might be able to retrieve those records on line yourself. The services and extent of archived records DO vary from one provider to another though. Talk to a PI about phone records for a phone that isn't yours. It can't hurt to ask.

Stu and Daisy, phone numbers can be very important. If you have one for where your spouses are staying, a "reverse directory" can reveal the address where that phone is listed, the occupants of that residence, etc. Reverse directories are available (for a price) online for both residential and cell phones. Once you have names and addresses, there are all kinds of public records sitting out there just waiting to be retrieved. Sometimes it takes someone with the knowledge of where to look, sometimes the state maintains a website where things can be looked up.

It would be a good idea to determine in advance (and let an investigative agency know item by item) exactly what information you want. That way, they don't go crazy finding all kinds of info you can't use or need...and charge you for all of it, of course.

How do you know what you want and need? Well,that's where some of the betrayed spouses out here can help you...OR have a talk with an attorney. Even if you're not contemplating a divorce at the moment, what they have to say on the subject might spark something in your mind.

I have found a phone number that she called w/ my calling card, paid for a reverse search it was the fax # for an apt complex/agency. they have several different properties. She is likely in one of those properties. I'll have to somehow get the apt managers to offer up her apt info, that's not gonna be easy or ethical, but ethics just left out the window.

I don't believe she has a home phone in her apt. Her cellphone is under her own name/acct so I can't access any of her call records w/o hacking into her online acct. Darn I wish I could talk to that kid that hacked into Paris Hiltons acct.

Well, just knowing the management company owning those properties narrows the search considerably for your PI. Pretty important for a city the size of SF. People fax things (such as pay statements) to apartment complexes/management companies while in the process of finding an apartment. Very well could be that she's living on one of their properties. Alternately, some complexes provide fax services to their residents. Could be she was faxing something to the OM? Let your PI know the information you've discovered so he doesn't charge you for doing what you've already done. If I were you, I'd go back through my phone records to a period well before your separation looking for numbers I didn't recognize. Good luck, pardner.

Hey stu,
I found this free website that does a reverse search....it worked for some numbers not for others....might be worth a try.
http://www.whitepages.com/10001/reverse_phone

Daisy


edited to add: they also do a people search (free) to get the phone number....see what happens....

Thanks Daisy, I've tried every free resource on the web, I honestly don't know how else to get her address unless I use the list of 4-5 properties that the agency sent me and go to everyone of them and see if her car is there or her name on the mailbox. My W has always been paranoid, for years now we have not been listed on any public directories. This makes my job that much tougher.
Oh Daisy, you probably know this already, but I want to share my trick with you regarding communicating with the spouse. I never get it right the first time of what I want to say. I generally start with a sketch of my general idea that I want to express on my email and save as draft. Then whereever/whenever I get some inspiration (and I frequently do) of something that I want to say then I logon to my email and alter that message or add to it. It usually takes me a couple of days and several alterations before I feel like the words actually reflect what I want to express. Even if I get an inspiration for some thought I want to express but doesn't fit into my current email's general idea, I still write it down and save it as draft, because I know in the near future I'll probably want to use that in some other email. But if I don't write it down at that point, I'll never be able to recreate that sentance the way I thought of it initially when I got the inspiration. I've had a lot of drafts in my inbox lately. Then as I use them in a email that I sent, then I transfer it to a word doc and save it in my computer and erase it from draft. Sometimes the act of writing them down and seeing the words on paper reinforces them in my mind and helps me even when I talk to her to be able to recall that idea in the proper way, and say it the way I want to express them. It makes my conversations sound a lot more thought out, organized, and articulate. Hope that makes sense.

BTW, if I haven't said this yet. This forum has been awsome, you're all so wonderfully supportive and helpful. You're like a beacon in the fog of confusion, without this forum, people like myself in these sitch can easily head in the wrong direction. Thanks again. Keep up the posts...

Stu,

That is such a good plan....

I have been thinking about what to say for a while and just running it through my head. Now, I wrote it all out on Friday....My friend told me to sit on it for a week....so I'll change things as I go.....I don't know if it is too nice (I do say ILY and Orchid recommended I don't)....so I guess I'll be revising as you do......I do like the process you are doing through.....

It seems like you are going though something similar as me...your W just moving on and you still have not.....Does she still call you.....I am a bit panicky here the last 2 weeks as H has not called me or initiated any contact between us. I have called him and we saw each other last week. He seemed happy to see me, but has not called me. (used to call before). I worry he is not interested in even talking to me now and that my plan to "talk about us" in the next week or 2 is a little too late and he will not give a dam. Does your W initiate contact between you....I don't know how to deal with this....seems like I am crushing all over again....

Best....
Daisy

Daisy,

I know your panicky feeling, I'm there too... But since I called and left that message on Thursday night, I feel surprisingly more calm.

I don't know if it is because I had to accept the consequences of telling her that I'm moving on by coming to this state of mind or that I now sense some possible regret or perhaps anxiety on her part.

Anyways, since she left in Sept, it has always been me emailing her ~2x/week x 3-4 wks about what I'm learning. She responded via email maybe 2-3 times total. She hasn't initiated contact except for the past week.
1. Monday night/Tues morning 1:30am, calls me at home asking to let her into my office to use something, we then went out to eat. But says we're still to have no contact.
2. I emailed her on Wednesday night saying she needs to be honest with me. no response.
3. Thursday night: I left her a VM saying she needs to move her things out of my place.
4. Thursday night: 30min later called me back angry about my accusation and saying I'm not reasonable with throwing out her things. thought we had agreed to keep them here until she comes back to move them in mid December. Had a long talk about my research and studies into our relationship and how to improve it. She even had some questions asking for my advice on couple of things; chitchat that she would have not gotten into if she really didn't want contact with me.
5. Friday morning: she called again yelling into the phone about the anxiety I caused her with my phone call the night before.

I don't expect to hear from her anytime soon after that blow-up from her. She had said she wasn't coming back in town for Thanksgiving. But now after that show of anxiety perhaps she might change her mind. I'm sure she won't tell me tho.

To the guru's should I change my lock and garagedoor code since she has my keys and opener? or does that make things worse? If I don't change them she will likely just come and take her things when I'm not here.

When my WS called my work phone leaving 4 messages of him screaming utter babble, I put them on take and kept them as proof. LOL!!! I suggest u do the same.

When the WS moved out, I changed the deadbolt lock on the front door, changed the pad lock on the garage door and changed the lock on the house back door. When the WS decided to come back as an Xws, the locks were changeable (except the back door). When he reverted to the WS (NC broken and plan B reimplemented), the locks on the deadbolt and garage door went back on.

I suggest you do something similar. The WS have a habit of being fickle and if you as a BS fall for it, expect a roller coaster ride that'll make you sick. But you don't have t/b letting her have free reign on coming and going out of your home. After all, she may want t/d more than just take 'her things'. Mine wanted to take more also but them he was 'reminded' that things purchased as a family, stays with a family. As a result, he had very little to take with him.

JMHO,
L.

Longhorn,
I emailed my PI asking him to email me a retainer agreement, an estimate of the total cost and to agree on a cap cost. He hasn't responded, I'm worried about sending him a check without any type of documentation. Asked him about paying with CC, he wouldn't accept either. He sounded like a nice guy on the phone but who knows...

Becareful about that Stu. If he cannot give you any documentation. I have real "question marks" about that.

Would it be a better idea to look in the yellow pages of SF.
It may be safer way to obtain a good PI.

Could you find the yellow pages to SF online?

Lady

Well, the PI started work on my case. Sent me the retainer agreement. So things look okay after all with this guy.
Found her place, no sign of contact with any guy so far. I found out through chatting with her BIL that she is spending thanksgiving with a girlfriend of hers that is going up there to be with her family (a girl I also know and have been to her family's house up there as well, this gal drives there @ least once a month to visit family). That makes me feel a lot better. No guy in sight for holiday plans, not going to the guy friend's house apparently.

While I'm waiting, anxiety is building back up to the threshold of panic again. I still feel like if I leave the subject alone for now and don't contact her that it may seem to her that there's no conviction on my part. The last time we had contact was Friday morning when she called angry about me causing her anxiety the night before and throwing her stuff out and hanging up on me. I left her a calm message saying, "let's please talk about this calmly. Getting you angry was the LAST thing I wanted to do. I'll work this out with you just give me a call, I won't disrespect you by throwing your stuff out." my instinct is to contact her again and try to discuss things at least calm her anxiety and perhaps talk about moving her things at a more convenient time. But I don't know what to do.
My gut feeling is that the investigator is not going to find any definitive evidence.