Good stuff Faith,

I can relate to things in each chapter.
Chp. 4 for me was xbf.
5 for me would be fear of the unknown/stalling by not moving out of comfort zone.
6 I think I'm starting to get this one.
7 Absolutely!
8 rescuing/caretaking sounds like the rebound stuff. When we are lacking in an area, someone makes us feel safe, then one day we grow and don't need them in the same way.

I'm not very far along in Drita's book, which speaking of, where is she??
Some highlights I felt were:
*"you will experience intimacy only to the extent that you are prepared to reveal yourself"
*"We are most lovable not when we are pretending to have it all together, but in our raw and imperfect humanity"
*Intimacy is multidemensional: combining the physical, emotional, intellectual, and the spiritual.
*In our quest for intimacy we have to move beyond the physical. P.I. is limited, but emotional, intellectual and spiritual I's are limitless.
*If you truly wish to experience the upper levels of P.I., you must first explore the depths of E, I, and S intimacy.
(which all goes back to, not rushing physical to soon)

I'm very early in the book. Much of it makes sense but it's a good read.

K!

"We are most lovable not when we are pretending to have it all together, but in our raw and imperfect humanity"

hmmmm... this strikes me. I have to let this roll around in my brain a little bit. Maybe the thoughts will come out later.

I believe it was to the effect of, when we are not perfect, it lets the other person feel more accepted for their own flaws. Removal of a guards possibly. Be able to be oneself.

K!

Good summaries.

yes. And not only hiding our "flaws", but hiding our problems. "Admit that my life isn't perfect???" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I have to ponder it some more though - for myself - and wonder *why* - *how* - it is jumping off the monitor at me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> It's one of those things that we say "of course - that makes sense", and perhaps we know it should be true, and perhaps we've heard it 100 times, but sometimes when a *truth* strikes us again, it really *is* something that can we can/should perceive from a different angle and learn from (again).

Here I am!!! You missed me?!

First, my friend turned me on to this Nelson Mandella speech: (you see it in all my posts)

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It is not just in some of us; it is in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others..."

She gave this to me because I WAS always feeling that there was "something" about me that made others feel insecure, my strength, whatever. But these words hit me, and I started to live my life in a better way. I try to let my light shine. I won't get all deep on you all here....but...it's like he says, when we allow ourselves to be ourselves in all our glory and not so glorious, people automatically feel that they can be themselves... we ALL have fears, problems, faults, along with everything positive...
Hope it makes sense what I'm trying to say.

One thing I have on my on-line profile is to just be yourself with me, eventually, it comes out anyway (usually three months down the road you start to see them for who they REALLY are!). Then you've been fooled, because all the time before they were showing you who they WANTED to be. So I say if you show me up front, I can deal with it.

I think a lot of people hide who they really are because they simply don't know who they are... and then when they start to feel comfortable around you they really come out-good or bad.

I'm saying all of this because it is all about intimacy and it's concerning what we are talking about. I've found the problem is, once you've learned about yourself it's hard to find another person who has taken the time and effort to do the same thing. Like I said, most are only guessing...so sad!

What amazes me...is, WHAT in the world am I doing here at 39 years old?! WHY didn't I know this stuff before?! I find it amazing! That I'm still learning so much about myself. I've ALWAYS struggled with intimacy. I've always known the reasons why, but, as Dr Phil says (I'm sorry, I love him!) first, you can't change what you don't acknowledge, and second, you won't give more of yourself than you are willing to lose. So far, I don't think I've been willing to lose to much...

WAH!!!!

Oh, so back to the book report...well, I've read the prologue!!! The point: Love is a CHOICE.

Hey girls!
I read a little more of my book while waiting at the dr office last night...
here were a couple of paragraphs that SCREAMED at me!!

I'm sorry for a repeat of it, but the first chapter is called: "Sex is not intimacy". Now, I USED to equate sex to intimacy, but have sinced learned I can find all the intimacy I need with my friends. What the book is saying is that the more you open up to someone, and find yourself still being accepted and loved, then that's intimacy. Our fears are that once people REALLY know us, then they aren't going to love us-they won't love the REAL us with all our faults and flaws, which is crap, we all know, cuz none of us are perfect, but when you like someone it makes you more vulnerable, therefore, more to lose.
the book says we are afraid of intimacy, because of the above: if someone REALLY knows us, we won't be loved, and that's the ultimate rejection, isn't it? We desperately want to be who we really are, "warts and all", but if we are, will people like us?
Yet, the book says, on the other hand, we can't be really loved for who we are if we won't reveal ourselves. "you will experience intimacy on to the extent that you are prepared to reveal yourself. We want to be loved, but we hold back thinking that our faults will be judged and used to oust us."
Now, what jumped out at me, was under the "Loneliness and Addicion" heading (very sad, but I suspect very true):
"The sensation that nobody really knows us can be one of the most debilitating forms of loneliness, and is fostered by our unwillingness to reveal ourselves, the paradox that we want to be known and loved for who we are, but refuse to reveal ourselves becase we are afraid of rejection, creates a remendous loneliness in our lives....
So, why do we gravitate toward the objects of our addictions? (shopping, alcohol, etc.) The reason is profoundly simple: because they change the way we think about ourselves. Our addictions pull us further and further into our self-centered imaginary worlds, while intimacy draws us out of our self-absorbtion and into a real experience of others, the world, and ourselves. Our addictions keep our illusions alive, and the one illusion our addictions are most faithful to is the belieef that we are the center of the universe....but when we run from intimacy we often find ourselves enslaved by addition."

Now I'm moving into the "intimacy and the four aspects of a person", which has already been covered by another reader...

One other good point the book made is something I've experience myself.... he was talking about a guy who finally decided, you know what? No matter how hard I try to please people or be someone they want me to be, there's always going to be someone who doesn't like me. That's just the way it is, so why not be ourselves, love OURSELVES and we be dependent on what others think of us...but that means KNOWING ourselves, and accepting ourselves... GOOD STUFF!!!

I also found a book at Sam's from my FAVORITE- a new Dr Phil book!! I love Dr Phil. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I know many don't, but he's right up my alley. I love common sense stuff that gets people to thinking...!

THanks so much Drita, for your "shine your light" post, and your book insights.

hmmmm... the fear of revealing our "true" selves... is that we'll be rejected. This goes to that "unconditional love" topic. Which is a whole 'nother bag of worms. We ARE afraid of being rejected because of our faults, because people ARE human, and DO reject one another because of flaws, hurts, and imperfections. We don't know how to love unconditionally -> we should strive to do so, so that the people around us can feel safe to reveal themselves, and so that we can feel safe to reveal our true selves. It's a circle, but someone has to be brave enough to go first!

I know, that some of my issues are fear of abandonment, since my mother died when I was three. And being raised by a father that was somewhat difficult to please - I was always seeking his approval. Identifying these is 1/2 the battle <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />. Learning to trust someone enough to "show myself" and be vulnerable is difficult, because I am afraid they will either leave me anyway, or disapprove. LOL But, like I said, knowing this, I know I can learn and work through it.

Going back to Karona's point that struck me... I tend to be attracted to men that "have it all together"... perhaps because I am terrified of NOT having it all together. Perfectionism? But sometimes, as the point from the book states, it is a front. For them, and for me. Sometimes it's a front. Sometimes, it's a state of mind. Sometimes you DECIDE you're going to be OK, and that you ARE OK, because things will get better, even in the midst of strife. Learning how to keep a good attitude and still be grounded in the facts... and... learning how to spot this in someone ELSE... is true honesty and intimacy. maybe... LOL

I'll post more from my book later.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hey Drita... tell me more about the situations with your job and your health.

Faith,
Exactly what I do! Although I have to say, I don't go for the guys that are "together". I go for the fixer-uppers!!!
But no more... I've finally learned! (Lord, I pray I've learned!)
But yes, my thing has always been once I realize something about myself, I can "fix" it, but the SEEING it is half the battle. Luckily, I'm blessed with GREAT friends that will call me on it and be honest about what they see. For example, when who was it...LH or AGG said I was seeming overbearing. I thought ME?! NO way! I asked a friend she said not overbearing, but assertive in conversations, rapid fire questions to get to the bottom of things. I'm shocked sometimes about what I continue to learn about myself!

Doesn't sound like much fun for you growing up! Sorry to hear that. It's interesting how we are so deeply affected by our childhood...Some never identify or deal with it. We are the lucky ones! (okay, smart!)

My job: My office is closing Dec 15, so that's my last day. I have a bit of severance, that will get me through January, but it's been hard, not too many people hiring right now.... bad time of year!

My health: Long, long story. I've always been VERY healthy. I've had more injuries than illness. I've been really run down and tired and not feeling well-various, very strange things. I have an appt to see an internist next week. I've had strep b, I believe mono, and am really run down. I guess they are thinking Hodgkins... which has a great recovery rate. It's just a bad time with job loss-insurance, AND that I've been sick and it's hard to interview and start a new job not knowing if you are going to miss time from work or what, so hopefully I will know more by the end of year so I can plan properly. I guess the only way they can determine what it is is to take a node from under my arm and disect it.

hehe... well, I'm attracted to the "all-together" men... but I've always "gotten stuck" in relationships with "fixer-uppers", for various reasons. LOL It's been my mission to "raise the bar", and determine that I am worthy and capable of going after the "all-together" man, instead of settling for the "fixer-upper".

I'm so sorry about your situations. Those are really tough!!! Take some really good vitamins and take care of yourself. You'll beat whatever this is. And I know the right job is just waiting for you. ((((((Drita)))))

By the way... to answer a previous question of yours... I'm a lil ol' southern belle down heah in Alabama. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Not near you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sending hugs, thoughts, and prayers your way Drita!

I think this time of the year is the worse for job seeking.
Hang in there. IF you will be okay thru Jan, maybe something well open up for you at that time.

I will keep you in my thoughts.
Karona

Dang! Maybe we could meet halfway?! Be glad your down there today. When I woke up, it was -3!!!
BRRRR!!!!!!


Thanks for the hugs!

I'll let my faith and God take care of these situations. I can already feel Him working. In SO many ways, it's unbelievable, of course, because He can do so much more than I think!
For example, I may have found a new church home, I am going to start selling Silpada jewelry, and I'm very excited about it and the possibilities for me.
I'm going to have Christmas off for the first time ever!! (Even though I will be alone...maybe)
That guy I'm dating...evidently has had some breakthrough or something because he just told me he is throwing "caution to the wind, he wants me and thinks I should know that, but he's scared, which is probably the reason for the mixed signals..."
Is that weird or what?!

SO, I'll just keep pushing on and things will work out like they are supposed to... they always do!!!

Hey Drita...I just bought the Dr. Phil book on Amazon...I can't wait to get it!!

-3??? brrrr!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I laughed at myself this morning, because my car door was actually frozen shut. Well, I pulled it open without too much trouble. I laughed as I thought to myself what the folks up north are dealing with this morning! That ya'll would probably laugh at me and my little bit of cold and ice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Colder than a witch's ___ here too!!! Wind is blowing so hard...Snow falling a few inches an hour...and we STILL have school...UGH!! We were sooo hoping for a snow day today!!!

We didn't get the snow they thought we would, but ice instead. NO SCHOOL today though.

Drita, a friend of mine sells Silpada, in fact I'm going to her open house tonight. Good luck to you with it. They have a cute pair of plain silver earrings that I wear very often. They are a small kind of rectangle. Very plain, but nice!
Where do you live D?
Wooo-hoooo on the guy front. Maybe that mistletoe will be hung in the right doorway, and you will finally get that kiss!!!

Karona

Ah, snow days! Fun!
I'm in Des Moines, IA.
I know, I LOVE the jewry (that's how I say it)!
It's GOOD stuff! Where are you K?
I'm thinking Northeast from how you are describing today. That was us yesterday! BRRR, it has been cold, but today we are having a heat wave! Supposed to get up to 20!

Dude is sounding like he wants to kiss me now... I've just been rolling along, not thinking much about it...more messages, sounds like he's made a decision that he's really into me... now I gotta catch up! Wow! Strange events!
I'm not jumping in though. Guys are so weird-they can just make up their mind and "be there".

Faith, I'd take the snow over the ice. That stuff is awful! We know about that too. So far this year we've had about 14 inches already! It looks like LLLOOOOONNNG cold winter!

We are getting hammered here with snow!! We've had a few feet of snow already this year..It's going to be one of those dreadful winters...I can tell! YUCK! Last Friday alone we had 18 inches of it. Wahhhhh!!! I have a girlfriend in Pittsburgh and they close everything down when there is even a CHANCE of snow. Just kills me!! We have school no matter what...Gotta love livin in the Snow Belt AND the Lake Effect area!!! My kids think I'm tellin stories when I tell them how we used to get 6-7 feet at one time when I was a kid. We would build tunnels in the snow.