LL

I'm a little confused. I remember the posts when you first met this guy (I think you were "seeing" several guys at once for a while) and I thought you DID have some sort of conversation about parameters, expectations, beliefs, etc. Am I incorrect? If you did have this talk, how was it not clear to your BF where you stood on things? Don't forget, he is partially responsible for the situation you both find yourselves in now, too.

Avondale,

I did tell him it was my goal to wait until I was married. And he explained how it was he found himself in intimate relationships with both his two other long-term GF's, and it sounded plausible. But I didn't walk the talk. We made it to not quite the 2-month marke from when we first started communicating, and blew it. And from then on, there's been no hesitation on either of our parts to continue it on a very regular basis, because I have totally tuned God out, I've stopped praying, and I've stopped reading the bible.

I barely slept last night. I'm sick beyond belief and have to figure out a way to get through the day. It's mostly because of my situation in this relationship...because I care so deeply for someone, I know that physical intimacy changes people and makes it very hard to think clearly and know for a man in his situation how difficult it must be, and I'm 99.9% sure we're going to be done. But I"m also sick becuase this is going to keep coming up over and over for me, if I keep dating, because I like being close and I like kissing and I can't imagine courting someone to the point of marriage and never laying a hand on them, but what seems to happen is that once the cuddling and the kissing start, they get stronger and more powerful, and then because I've been in an intimate relationship before, everything seems to kick on autopilot, which I think it does for the guy, too, and the mess happens.

So I'm totally sick because I really am thinking maybe God is saying, "Be alone forever". I really don't want to! Short term it was okay, but a big thing for me IS being able to be close to the man I love, to be physically intimate. I can't imagine never being there again in my life.

I want the dream to end...I wan't to wake up. But it isn't.

LL

LL,

In the times of Christ and before, there were no long-term biblical courting periods. Two people were either arranged to be married or they met, fell in love quickly, and then were married immediately (I'm talking a few weeks tops). And the common age was in their teenage years when they got married.

Long distance relationships don't work. Simply for the fact that there is not enough time in the week to meet the emotional needs that are necessary to maintain romantic love. Even trying to cover the recommended 15 hours in two days on the weekend that Dr. Harley suggests, is not adaquate, because you go through at least 5 days of withdrawal of not having our needs met.

Yes, this guy sounds like someone who would be very compatible with you, however, you can fall in love with anybody who is meeting your emotional needs and likewise cause those who you meet needs for to fall in love with you.

The tough thing is that when you do end the relationship, you will still have a positive love bank with this person. And you should wait until the love bank has gone down some (through time) before starting another relationship.

I am a firm believer that if you do end the relationship, then you should also end ALL communication and contact with that person. If you don't, you set yourself up to 1) continue to build your love bank account with them. 2) jeopardise conflicts and problems in your future relationships.

God does not want you to be alone. I really hope that you consider and test the things that I've said in my posts. I wish you well in your journey.

Lordslady,
Your anguish breaks my heart! I honestly started crying for you reading your post here, especially today.
I want to try to tell you WHY it breaks my heart and I hope it all comes out and makes sense...
It hurts me that people get so down on themselves about "God's will". Let me tell you first, God did not make us to be alone...please don't think that way!! We are put here to guide each other and to help each other on our respective walks with God.
In what I've come to know in my relationship with God, He does not wish for us to be in such despair! It is exactly why He sent his son, Jesus to change it all-in a previous post, ManofGod I believe, touched on the OT vs NT. Jesus did this for ALL of us-sinners, all of us are sinners! And LL, if it would have been just you down here, Jesus STILL would have been tortured and crucified and live a perfect life-JUST FOR YOU!!! Very humbling, isn't it?
The reason Jesus did this, was so that God could see us clean. You have accepted Jesus into your heart, and to God's eyes, you are pure, perfect-you are His child. And just like you have posted about your own DD, you will NOT EVER turn your back on your child. She goes out and makes her mistakes, and all the time you love her. You struggle with why, but you always love her, and you always want her to do the best she can, and come back to you, right? Now, take the feelings you have for DD and times it by infinity-THAT'S how our gracious Father feels about us.
Girl, you are gonna sin...sorry to break it to ya!!! Whether it is in the flesh, or whether it is in your mind, you are not immune to the worldly desires. Sin is sin, there are no degrees to it. Whether it is a thought or an action, it still makes us black, but thankfully, because of Jesus, we can keep coming back and asking for some release of the wordly desires that our fleshy bodies want.
NONE of us can live the perfect life Jesus did-sorry folks, if you believe otherwise!
LL, neither can you.
You just need to get right with God. Just talk to him. He knows, you know He knows. You need some peace, sweetie, and He is the ONLY one that can provide it. He knows you're struggling, He knows you will struggle again-why do you think it keeps coming up?!
Gosh, I hope this post is coming across how I want it. I'm not expouting the Bible here, but if God's ever been in your heart, He's there to stay. It's His desire! It's the relationship He wants with you...do you really think you would be putting yourself through all of this if He wasn't right there with you?!
I personally don't believe that God wants us to feel such pain!!! He wants to give you joy! You know that joy if you've had it before-like no other feeling, because there is no other that can fill our heart like our Father...
So, go to Him, He's waiting! He longs to hear you, feel you again. Don't be afraid, there is nothing to fear!
Cling to Him, and He will show you the way, He will fulfill the needs you have, you know it, you just have to allow Him!

Well, look on the bright side - at least there are no major issues or red flags with the boyfriend, so it's all about YOU and YOUR outlooks, which is something you can control and change much easier than you can control or change another person!

You seem to have in your situation EXACTLY what you want - a good, loving man, with a good, loving family, who all love and accept you. And you have the physical intimacy you crave.

So, the good news is that all the "issues" are mostly (if not fully) in YOUR control (I almost said "in your head" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) - you can choose to be happy with things, or you can choose to end things. It is totally your choice - and that is an enviable position to be in.

AGG

AGG,
I've missed your insight!
That's a perfect post! (to me!)
And it does beg the question... LL, might you be sabotaging what you want by a belief that only you can choose...
Interesting...

Awww, thanks Drita <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. And really, considering all the stories we see here (and experience ourselves) where it's the OTHER person who is a (fill in the blank - wacko, liar, manipulative, game player), it's important for LL to note that in her case, SHE has a good thing going, and may need an "attitude adjustment" rather than a "boyfriend adjustment" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

Amen, brotha! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yes, you guys, in a lot of respects I have everything I could have dreamed. And he's a cuddler, which is so rare in guys I know and guys my friends are married to. He craves just sitting close when we're together, we touch each other's hands and stuff, he'll kiss me on the forehead or on the cheek, just really soft stuff...it's the most awesome thing. And he told me once that he hoped I never got tired of it, because it's what he craves.

AGG, the long distance thing, while a challenge, hasn't been a huge issue other than with the sex thing now. We see each other every weekend without fail, either Fri-Sun or Sat-Sun, and we generally get together for 3-4 hours on Thursday evenings which is truly "alone" time - no kids, no parents, no anyone but us.

I agree, if we break up, we can't stay in contact. Too hard for both of us. I just don't want to break up, and I feel like I'm clinging to a sinking ship, and it's ripping me apart right now.

LL

Just a quick note because I'm swamped this morning but ((LL)) please remember one vitally important thing, what I, ManOfGod, Drita, AGG, or anyone else believes is fairly insignifigant, it is your relationship with God and your beliefs and your values.

That this has had such an impact on your relationship with God, would be a driving force for me, but again that is me. There has been some great insight offered by many for you as well as some that I personally would disagree with but the bottom line is it boils down to your relationship with God. The only warning I will offer is I believe someone said something about y'all being joined through God, being this has separated you from God would lead me to believe that is a false statement.....

LL, could it be that you are afraid you won't make with him and that 2 years is too long and he can change and you can lose him for having 'long distance' relationship is hard, and because you have sex with him he might lose some interest in you (that is as weird as a person's mind can be), maybe you think no-sex would keep him wanting you these 2 years... or if you break it won't hurt you so much if you didn't "gave yourself"...?

And that fear of yours of losing your bf you hide behind "God's voice"...

Belonging,

Thanks for the response. But truly, no I"m not worried about him losing interest in me because we're having sex. I'm terrified of losing him because I'm taking something away that is so important to him, and is something he has so come to expect as a natural part of our interacting. I have just completely changed the dynamics of what has been a great relationship by throwing this out.

And I've spent until 3am last night and part of this morning trying to find something, ANYTHING, that would tell me that what we're doing is somehow okay. I haven't found it. All I find are more and more verses to the contrary, both about fornication (sex outside marriage) and about continuing to live in sin after you have asked Christ to be your savior and Lord. In what I've read, I find it very frightening, because it appears that to blatantly continue committing sexual sins, my very eternity could be at stake.

I am going to cut and paste below, the latest email I got from BF--the only one today. I interpret it as he is "thinking", but that he's leaning toward calling it quits. And I'm unable to eat I'm so upset about everything.

Here's the email:

As for the you and me thing, I'm still somewhat in shock and not sure of how to respond at this time. Lots of thoughts running through my brain which is not necessarily a good thing when a paper needs worked on. Still though, guess the one thing I definitely want to get across is that I'm not mad at you for having the feelings your having and I can totally understand where your coming from and why your having those thoughts. A part of me wants to argue points, positions, or theology, but there's really no point to that. I know your beliefs are strong, I know you may well be correct in those beliefs, and even if you weren't, you have every right to have them and to believe firmly in them. With that said, I guess I just need to continue to think about these things some more and not make irrational decisions at this point.

(((LL))) I'm sure if you wait long enough, someone will come along and tell you where you're misreading that there book, but again, it's what's in your heart. One of the most leaned on scriptures for this arena seems to be 1st Cor chapters 6 & 7. In that, to me, it seems crystal clear.

PS..... Don't know what the rest of his e-mail said, but frankly I see optomism rather than defeat in his words.

You could marry him now and continue things as they are, until your daughter reaches adulthood in 2 years.

LL,

It is good to see you struggling so. I know that sounds anathema, but it is, because it means you have a conscience, and an openness to the nudgings of the Holy Spirit, and that you haven't completely rejected what you *know* to be right.

Unfortunately, I think you're approaching the problem [censored]-backwards, and I will toss out some tidbits for you to mull over.

o) Your BF sounds like a great guy.
o) You seem to doubt that God wants what's best for you. How could he not? He
sent his son to *die* for you, that's how much he loves you. Does a Father give his prized daughter anythign less than the best? No.
o) Your BF's past intimacy with his other GF's have no bearing on anything. You're you, you're not them.


I will remind you of John 10:10. The Thief (Satan/the devil) comes to steal, kill and destroy... What's he come to steal? Your joy! Your happiness! Not your money or possessions, he wants to steal the things that will cause you despair and to doubt God's goodness and eternal love for you.

In the meantime, through all of this, God's hand is out. He will never leave you nor forsake you. In fact, the closing part of John 10:10 is "But I (Jesus) come, that you might have life and and have it abundantly." What is abundant life? Having what you want and need met *above and beyond* your expectation. So as much as you think this guy is great, God wants you to have that level of greatness, plus an infinite measure more. So much so that you look at waht you *thought* was great, and realize that was merely so-so... (Doesn't mean a new BF, only that the relationship with this one can be even better than it is).

But (you knew it was coming), this blessing has one small caveat. Obedience. The burden is easy, the yoke is light, the way is straight. The gates of heaven will be thrown open wide and blessings poured out upon you. YOu must have to walk in obedience.

And finally, if this guy is really that great (which I firmly believe he is), he will be understanding. (I am pulling a blank here, is he a believer too?).

The hardest part of the Christian walk is denying the flesh. (Even says so in the BIble. Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak). But it's in the victory over the flesh that we reap the harvest. Sow seeds of fidelity and trustworthiness and reap a harvest. Sow seeds of infidelity and disobedience and you reap those seeds. And that's where the enemy attacks us at, as he is doing to you.

1 Cor is a good book to study, as well as Romans 8, so that we learn who we are in Christ.

In any case keep in touch. But stand firm in what you *know* to be right, even at some cost to your flesh. God honors obedience.

option 2 is to just run out and get married and have a long distance marriage... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I will encourage you to read Rom 8:5-8, and then Rom 8:9, reading it several times to receive the revelation. ACtually, just all of Romans 8 is so good.

Lastly, don't beat yourself up so hard. Yes, if you continue the path, we might have to switch to a 4x12 instead of a 2x12, but God is a God of forgiveness. There is nothing you have done that somehow made it impossible for God to either forgive or stop reaching out to you. It is the enemy wanting to drive a wedge between you and God that has you believing this. And you have to make the choice to not accept it, and instead stand on the Word that you *know* to be Truth. The enemy is the father of lies, he wants nothing more than for you to be miserable.

Don't let him succeed.

Funny two of you mention that long-distance marriage. I thought of that some time ago--problem is, he is very stuck on getting to know someone for at least 2 years before committing to them. He had an awful 2.5 year relationship where after about the first year, he found out about another guy, and the more and more kept coming out from the lies and deceipt for another 1.5 years while he tried off and on to make it work with her. He admitted being very dumb and ignoring 100's of red flags, and he hurts a lot from it. As he said last night, 2.5 years with and he was just starting to crack that nut. So I don't see him making any immediate proposals, though I would probably accept in a heartbeat because we have spent so much one-on-one time together, and with his family, that I've watched his interactions with them and with friends, and based on whave I've seen and what I've experienced, it could be really good.

However, I probably sent him over the edge becuase I sent him one of my long emails in response to him and in addition to trying to explain myself, I threw out my fantasy of perhaps abstaining for another 7 months (until we hit our 1-year mark) and if things were good, then thinking about a long-distance marriage until both my DD and his issues were worked out. We'd see just as much of each other as many married couples do where one spouse travels during the week or works odd shifts. And as I mentioned, we'd no longer have to hide things--we'd have a lot more freedom.

But given that he's stated several times his 2-year time frame, there's no way he'd entertain this. And he's the one who controls the marriage proposal decisions, not me.

This is SO hard! (and I've been double-hit because my DD informed me this morning that at some point prior to Christmas, she's leaving with someone and going to Salt Lake City...maybe to visit, maybe to find a job and live.) I can't stop her without sitting on her 24/7. It's all just really hard.

(And to top it off, after decreasing for months, I weaned off my A/D's about a month ago because I thought things were great. I could use those level emotions now, but it'd take another 3 weeks to get the levels built back up in my system.)

I hurt. That's all I can say. It just hurts really bad!

LL

Jaye,

One thing I forgot to respond to: Yes, he professes to be a Christian. We've talked at length about certain things like salvation, various world issues, the role of the christian man vs. the christian woman in a relationship (mainly talking marriage relationship there), though most of these talks were weeks before we crossed the physical line.

But he does fully admit that his beliefs where pre-marital sex are concerned differ from mine. We obviously didn't discuss this well enough in the beginning, and we both knew we had willpower issues in that area. But while he doesn't see the issue with it in a serious relationship and I know it hit him like a ton of bricks when, after I've been willingly going at it for three months, I inform him that I can't continue, I DO have an issue with it. And it's a very poor time to bring that issue to light, after it being habit for 3 months. It's just this side of cruel.

LL

Or you could look at it as jumping back to the side of being honest, I guess it's all in one's outlook and perception. Seek His face ((LL)), you've admitted to stubling, stand up, seek Him, and there you answer will also be.

LL -

Glad someone else is having the same struggle. Well maybe not glad, but relieved. I am still not divorced, but counting the days.

The whole thing makes me kind of angry. WH who is a long-time Christian, has been living with the OW for 3 years. I've been by myself, trying to save the marriage.

I waited until after we were married for sex, according to my beliefs. There is something in the Bible about when the head of the household sins, he invites Satan into the home.

You know that I had a ONS last year which I immediately regretted. I know it was my fault, but am somewhat resentful, because the loss of SF with my husband was not my choice.

Two months ago, a long time friend let me know that he is interested in dating me. So here came the next battle. We both agreed to wait until the D was final. We have chosen to avoid each other until then. It's a real DRAG.

And I'm not even divorced yet!!!! The only thing that has helped me is keeping busy, and channeling that drive into other things.

Hang in there. You ARE a good woman.

Paul's first letter to the Church in Corinth did not say anything in regards to pre-marital sex being sin. This is the fact I believe most Christians really don't understand.

Her making love to this man prior to being married is not sin.

I believe LLs innner-conflict is caused by FALSE teachings more so than a true relationship with the Holy Spirit, which NEVER makes us feel bad or guilty as LL feels.

Yes, she has to make her own decisions and choices, but I believe her bondage is being caused by a false teaching and belief system. Her guilt comes from the enemy, not God.