Wow, ManofGod. I thought I was an off the wall Christian. Do you mind if I ask what denomination you are?

believer,


Where?

Here's my quote for anyone and everyone, but I wrote it specifically because of how much FALSE teaching that goes on in Christian Churches. Especially, when other Christian's just parrot what they've heard rather than knowing whether it is indeed truth.

"Do not mindlessly pass on knowledge that you have learned from others, but rather analyze it, judge it and discern the certainty of it for yourself first." - JPM

Believer,

I am just a Christian (i.e. Follower of Christ). I do not believe in denomination. Man created denomination (basically division in the Church), Jesus only intended for there to be one Church, one Body. Even non-demoninational churches have man-made doctrine, teachings and principles.

That is your interpretation of the scripture, one that I believe goes against almost all organized Christian teachings, but you have every right to hold it as I have the right to hold my view and LL hers.


Again, this is your opinion based on your interpretation of what constitutes sin. Neither you, I, nor LL are the ultimate judge, thus ultimately we must each make our own choices. LL has chosen to call what she did wrong and sinful. She has stated that it has pulled her away from God, which would further indicate that it is wrong for her.


That is one of the most disrespectful, judgemental statements I've ever heard in my life. Who are you to say that LL's teachings are false or for that matter the teachings of almost every organized Christian religion? Are you a profit? Are you God? No, you are a person with a view based upon your interpretation who obviously shows little tolerance for people with other interpretations.


Quite honestly, I question your mission today to crash any thread that has to do with sex outside of marriage with little knowledge of the situations or people. Even posting these things on a thread where a guy was simply physically separated from his wife. If you've ever read Screwtape Letter by CS Lewis, today your over powering words sound a lot like good old Uncle Screwtape.....

LH,

You say my interpretation as if I am the one who interpretted or translated Paul's letter. I don't understand any other language than English and I have read nearly every version of the Bible that was translated in English.

I have yet to find any evidence or english words that speak of "fornication" being sin anywhere in the Bible.

Am I a prophet? Maybe, but that is not for you or I to determine, but rather the one who calls us.

For you to interpret "Sexual Immorality" as "fornication" sounds a lot like the misinterpretation to me. Sexual Immorality is clearly defined in many books and letters as adultry, orgies, incest, beastiality and homosexuality. Not once is it defined as "fornication" or "sex prior to marriage".

You are welcome to flat out reject the teachings that I pass on, just as the Sanhedrin did of Jesus' teachings. I just ask you to research on your own to determine if the teachings that I pass on are true or false.

I don't have anything negative to say about what you believe, is it wrong for me to challenge it? If your belief is built on a solid foundation, then what does it matter to you what I teach?

I'm here to try and help LL feel the freedom. Freedom that Christ gave her in his death, while all I read here from other Christians (like you) is wanting her to remain in her torment and guilt. Do you think your words of conviction and encouragement are lifting the burden of sin and guilt off of her?

I don't generally stay for long if I am persecuted for the truths that I uphold, so if this is not where I am supposed to be, then I will peacefully move on.

Chiming in here:

"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultry, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" (Gal. 5:19-21)

Marriage is honerable in all, and the bed undefiled; but God will judge fornicators and adulterers. (Hebrews 13:4)

Fornication by definition = sex between two people who are not married..period.

It has been translated in later versions (NIV,etc.) to "sexual immorality". And because so many people don't consider sex before marriage "immoral", they don't catch this. But in earlier translations such as KJV, it says "fornication".

Much as I'd like to think I'm not doing anything that is a sin, I see verse after verse that smacks me in the face.

Here's another:


And reason to not CONTINUE IN SIN once you figure out you're doing it:

"Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did." (1 John 2:6)

Okay, no one is perfect. We all mess up and probably sin daily. But it's the willful disobedience I'm struggling with.

Which, by the way, since that first short email I've heard nothing more from BF. He's not responded to my emails, and when I tried to give him a ring, he didn't answer, nor has he returned my call. He isn't working all week, so I know he's just out working out, working on his paper, and stuff. He's ignoring me...

LL

Hey LL,

What translation of the Bible did you get your Gal 5:19-21 from? Of all the ones I read, only the KJV (which I hold greatly in contempt) uses Fornication/Fornicator often. Especially in place of words like "orgies" and "adultry".

Just some history on the KJV and NKJV translations. The scholars authorized by King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. So it was a double translation to begin with. Not a very good one at that.

Out of all the english translations, KJV and therefore NKJVs of the Bible are greatly mistranslated.

One horrible translation was from the book of Isaiah where many Christians of today associate the word "Lucifer" with Satan. The scripture in its true Hebrew translation was referring to the story of a Babylonian king. Whereas the KJV changed this to refer to a story of how Satan was a fallen angel. Lucifer was a Latin word meaning the bright morning star, how it found it's way into Hebrew text which is many years older is interesting don't you think?

I found it, you are using New King James Version.

Why do you think KJV and NKJV differ so much from American Standard, New American Standard, New International Version, Amplified, English Standard, and New Living Translations?

I leave you to search out your own truths LL, I hope you find peace in all you do.

I am sure his world has been rocked a bit. As has yours by his responses to your concerns.

I suspect he's just processing. And frankly, if he truly loves you, he'll respond, and if the relationship was unequal, you'll know that too, and better now than later.

The trick to some of this is to look back at the original greek/hebrew and from there you can determine what was meant more thoroughly.

MoG can pick any handle he wants, but he may need to clean his glasses.

Good luck, and keep posting.

WHen you do catch up with your BF, you might want to sit down and have one of those serious talks wrt 1 Thess 4:1-10 and look very carefully at the Scriptures about being unequally yoked, if it turns out that his views aren't in line with the Truth as you know it from the BIble. No reason to cause yourself more heartache.

The passage from Thess probably applies to your ? about "willful disobedience".

But as always, test everything you hear and make sure it aligns with God's Word, and if it doesn't, cast the advice away from you, and ignore the giver.

Remember LL, you're a child of the King, and a joint-heir with Christ. You *choose* how you want to live your life.

Hmmm.. I am not going to play Holy Spirit and claim to exacly know the will of God, but I will say that when it comes to interpreting scripture I would NOT use the King James version. Modern translations are much better and much more accurate.

On a side note, I noticed that the 10 commandments forbid adultry, and coveting your neighbor's wife, (coveting your neighhbor's husband is not direcly mentioned!!!).

LL: As so many have stated; this is solely your choice - as we are granted free will. Yes, you (and all of us) will be judged by what's in our hearts - and by our actions! BF sounds optimistic to me as well. This topic is controversial and sensitive, particularly to divorced folks. I would not dare tell you what's OK and not OK for you and BF to do. That is for you to decide.

MOG:


As everyone knows; we can play with semantics all we desire when reading the scriptures. This is a dangerous game for believers to play. A decent dose of deductive reasoning would seem to be important so as not to justify sex with children, terrorism, abandonment of children, etc. As to your assertion; "...Sexual Immorality is clearly defined in many books and letters as adultry, orgies, incest, beastiality and homosexuality..." there are also several books and letters that clearly define fornication as sexual immorality; here is one line of text that you might enjoy reading. (http://www.padfield.com/1996/fornicat.html) There are several more available; however this is LL's post and I've already threadjacked it enough.

FR

Believer,

Sorry so late in responding to your posts. I don't have much to say except that I totally understand your struggle! If you have kept up with my post-dv life, you know I've made some serious errors because of struggles with temptations of the flesh. I want to do things right. I know you do, too.

MOG, Jaye, JE,

While the KJV is difficult to sit and read because of the way the language flows (thus, all my highlighting and notes are in my NIV version), I have always considered it a truer interpretation, and that the latter versions have been a bit watered down.

Second, JE, that point about the 10 commandments was one brought up by my BF last night. And it is something to think on. It doesn't address sex between two unmarried people, only adulterous sex. But there are so many other verses in the bible that do tend to speak on it, and for the most part I pull them from the New Testiment, which is the one I follow because it is after Jesus' time.

Jaye, I hope you're right and that BF is just processing. I'm in a mental mess right now. I can't even eat. I know in my brain that if we're unequally yoked, that's wrong. While he's not as conservative as I am in some respects with his life, overall I have seen no reason to suspect that he's not a true Believer. However, we definitely don't agree on this very important issue.

LL

LL -

I'm concerned that you are so upset about not hearing from your BF. It might be time for you to date some others too.

I have made some mistakes, and hope not to make more. I've been in this for 3 years, and feel like I have worked on myself and done my grieving.

As soon as the D papers are final, I plan to date. In fact I'll probably date as much as I can. For sure, there will be no hurry to get into another relationship right away.

Just so I look completely pathetic, I tried calling BF again. Generally I only leave one message, but there have been times he's tried me twice, so I figure since it'd been 3 hours and he should be home settling in watching his football game soon, I'd give it a shot.

No answer. He's ignoring me. Wanna' bet he doesn't call at all tonight?

I have this fear that I'll just not hear from him.

LL

Oops, Believer, you posted just when I did.

In all honesty, I don't want to date others. I am really, truly happy with this guy. I really was thinking maybe this had future potential, and everything he'd said mirrored that. I have no desire to "date around". I know what I want, I just thought maybe I'd been fortunate enough to actually have found it. I dated 5 guys (he was the 5th) during my little stint earlier in the summer. While it had it's interesting moments, I really did not like dating all these guys, the pressure of a new "first date", figuring them out, the awkwardness when it was obviously not the right guy and yet I was asked out a second time, etc.

I don't need to test the waters to see all the fish out there. When I find what I want, I'm perfectly happy stopping at that point.

LL

LL,

I can bet that this is stressful. But given that the situation as it stands is out of your control, you can stop and take a breather. Whatever will happen will happen.

Dating relationships have their peaks and valleys much like marriages. If this guy is serious about you, this isn't gonna be enough to put him off the scent, it just rocked his world a bit.

If he's a good guy as you believe he is, he won't be able to stay away.

Have a peaceful night, and take a break from trying to force anything to happen.

Oh, LL, you are just like me. I've always found one that I like more, and stuck with him. The problem is, if it doesn't work out, you have wasted a lot of time.

It is much better to date several, for quite awhile, and get to know them well, and then single one out. I think that is especially true when you first are coming out of a bad relationship.

[color:"blue"] LL [/color]


This is so true...also, I was looking up your posts when you first met this guy; you said he was a thinker-type. It is likely that he is trying to assimilate all of this. Give him some space, even though it's difficult. You might want to re-read some of those posts too. It might be helpful with the perspective of a few months' time that you now have.

It's now halftime in the Vikings game. That was the agreed-upon call time last night, before the whole world crashed down. My phone isn't ringing.

No call to me from him--very unusual. He's usually very good with his word. I'm trying not to assume the worst, but it isn't working, especially since it's completely unlike him to not return my other calls. If he had anything even remotely good to say, he'd be calling.

I am in knots right now. I am so angry with myself for letting this hurt me so much, but that's just more reason not to get into a sexual relationship at the wrong time. It complicates everything so much.

LL

What about the other part of my message, LL?
What are you really afraid of?
(Obviously, some issues you never properly addressed, otherwise you wouldn't repeat the same "mistakes"... You have to face yourself the way you are, and make Final & Irrevocable choices... Some people can be 'in the middle', but it seems not you, for it hurts you much...)


Re: 'Dating several guys'... For me, it's a bigger "sin" and so much less moral than having sex with the one you like/love/plan to spend your future with...
Or we define 'dating' differently, as we differently define the Faith...