(((Believer)))

Sorry to hear that you are in the process of D.

The saying goes that D is like death but it never seems to amaze me how people act in siutation like these. If we never had a child, i could've cared less how they reacted to this. But being that we do have a child and they claim to want to be a part of his life and participate in his life(even though right now they're doing quite the opposite) i would have thought things to be different. My entire family on the other hand, knowing the pain that my WH has caused me would still greet him warmly just because they know that they'll be dealing with him for the next couple of years and they don't want to burn any bridges just in case we do eventual get back together. If we do reconcile i don't know how that's going to work out....i think i couldn't do it either. I hurt too much.

WTF

Thank you for your vote of confidence.

ARK

Thank you so much for your help and wonderful advice. I felt so lost before coming here. Having you guide me through this means so much to me.

I am not afraid to talk to WH. I am TERRIFIED.

Every time I tried talking to him before I couldn’t help but get emotional...I cried and then got extremely angry when he showed no emotion. I LB him right up until the day I came to this wonderful place. I feel that by speaking to him about us, him, me or our M I come across as needy/desperate.

When I threw him out, I gave him a chance to come back home again if he was willing to work on our marriage and go to counseling and he told me that why would I go back on my words...what happened to my big pride? I tried pleading with him telling him what a lonely life he was pursuing, that it was shallow and empty, to try to work on our M first before walking away.. He would always respond to this by saying that he didn’t abandon us...that I threw him out. He said that he knew I wished him ill and that maybe he deserved to be miserable for the rest of his life.

I don’t know how or where to start......we don’t talk about us anymore. I’ve come a long way since D-day and I’m afraid of going backwards.

By now, WH thinks I have someone fabulous in my life and have reached the point of no return. I was hurting so much that I told him that I wouldn’t take him back even if he came back crawling on his hands and knees.

BUT if this is the next step and this is what it takes to try to save my M, I give it a shot....did I mention how scared I am though.

tell him...

I threw you out because you did not want to be here..
I threw you out because a marriage is not between three or more people

remove yourself from your fears...and state things globally...

be slippery as an eel....
so that he can't quite grasp IF you are talking about you and him...
or just him and life and relationships in general...

you have done a really really good job in decreasing LBs and he has shown signs of wanting to be with you..
ie driving together etc....

draw him in a little...

look devastated..he may not come back...but you are doing well in not taking the 'fall' for driving him away....
you are doing well in being stronger than you ever believed...

and you are NOT buying his fantasy babble....

his saying he didn't abandon you while having an OP is bullcrap...and WE ALL KNOW it....including him...don't power struggle that..but don't accept that either...

you can't go backwards...because even more scary that being without him...is being with him while he continues to "see" OP..\

right??

when do the Inlaws arrive...
have you told him you are not going to relatives...
have you agreed to see inlaws without going out of your way to include him..

ARK

The inlaws are due to arrive today or tomorrow but they haven't called me. i guess they're going to go through my WH and ask him to ask me when they can stop by. They don't have the nerve to call me but they can show up at my house?

have you told him you are not going to relatives...

when WH first asked me i said no that i was not comfortable with that and he hasn't asked again but i'm ready with my response if he does.

have you agreed to see inlaws without going out of your way to include him..

I was thinking since they went through him to get there he might as well be there too but now that you asked i'm thinking about excluding him and telling him...i think it would be better for the inlaws to come alone so that they can really bond with DS. Somehow i don't see that happening though. He wants to be there when they come over to share the joy. The more i think about it the more i'm convinced he shouldn't be there...but how should i tell him? I think i could probably handle it better without him there.

can you make arrangements to meet them somewhere...

or what about at your parents home....

where he is not welcome..
and say..
my parents had already invited me at that time long before your parents were coming....

so I figured if they wanted to see.... they could come there...

make sure you tell your parents you did ask their son to leave because he wants to have girlfriends...and you respect you and your child too much to have that type of in your face disrespect...

ark

I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday.

Sorry that this is long but I haven’t posted in a while.

When WH came over early last week, I thanked him for joining us at the mall and that it was nice seeing him with DS in that setting and that sadly DS would never have a memory of us as a family. He said I didn’t need to thank him that it was his pleasure and that if I gave him more opportunities like that he would love to be there but that DS wouldn’t have those memories because I won’t allow him to go out with us more often. I said no, sadly you won’t...because that’s the reality of your choice. 5 minutes later he says you know what....it is sad that DS won’t have that. I said yes it is.

WH stayed extra late and all three of us fell asleep on the couch. When we awoke I asked WH if he wanted to spend the night....no not that way...I meant on the couch and I asked because I wanted to see how and what WH would do. He pointed to the couch and asked “here”? I don’t know if he meant here the couch or here in this house......so I said yes....he thought about it and said no I can’t because I work tomorrow and all my stuff is over there.

I decided not to let WH spend Christmas morning nor Christmas eve with DS but he called Christmas eve and said he wanted to stop by really quick and drop off DS presents and a present that DS had bought for me too. I reluctantly gave in and told him to hurry up because we had someplace to go. 1 ½ hours later and still no sign of WH. I called and he said he was running late because he had a couple of errands to run...as calmly as I could I told him that it was too late, that I wasn’t doing it to be spiteful and that he would have to come some other day. He got upset because it was still early and I wasn’t going anywhere yet. I couldn’t believe the nerve of him to think that we’re just sitting waiting for him. WH called later in the evening and asked if we were at my family’s house so he can stop by and drop off the presents. I lied and said that we were there but were getting ready to leave to go someplace else. He asked to wait for him because he wanted DS to open his gifts on Christmas morning. I waited and met him outside without DS and he gave me the DS gifts but not mine. I wished him and his family a merry Christmas....smiled and walked away. He called at least 4 more times after he left asking about DS to tell me that he forgot to give me my gift from DS.

I arranged to have the in-laws visit without WH. He wasn’t pleased because he wanted to join them in their happiness (oh well too bad) but I told him that I just wasn’t comfortable with it. They arrived and were happy to see DS. I was extremely pleasant but reserved. WH was never a topic until they were getting ready to leave and my MIL had the audacity to tell me that we should all try to get along because DS unites both families and that we should push any bad vibes aside for his sake. What nerve? They have been the ones who cut any ties with us. I just shook my head and nodded in agreement and smiled because what I wanted to tell her was not going to be nice and at that point I was mentally exhausted and just wanted them gone. That visit just drained me and I’m happy it’s over and done with. Now I wait and see if she’s going to follow thru with her speech.

WH called several times right after they left but I didn’t want to hear from him. He called several times today again and I spoke to him. WH wanted to tell me all about what the in-laws said about DS and that he wanted to see DS this week before he went away for the weekend. I know he said this to get a reaction from me but I just said ok that’s fine....I notice he’s being acting aloft since I started doing it. I didn’t tell him that away must have meant where his parents are staying because they leave this weekend.

I’m glad it’s over but I hurt. I feel like they created a new wound. I expected for them to ask about how I was doing, how was I handling things. I expected empathy. I expected them to tell me that they’re trying to knock sense into WH. I got nothing and that makes me sad.

DNM, expect nothing from your in-laws.

And don't lie. It's bad for you. Even if it serves to disorient your WH, don't.

Be honest, and expect no loyalty.

You're good.

GC

first off...when people go in to a plan...

it usually pisses the spouse off and for a while a escalation in behaviors perhaps his answering you with aloofness..

but it sounds like you have his attention and it sounds like you have done an awesome job in making it safe for him to communicate with you....

time to think about when you are going to plan B...

ARK

I don’t feel that I’m quite ready for plan b yet. I need a couple of more weeks.

I read that in order for plan b to really work you must do a really good plan a. You have all said that I have, but I disagree. Yes, I have not LB WH since I started the plan, no R talk and no unpleasantries. I also believe that I have his attention. BUT, I don’t think I have made it comfortable for him to feel “safe” to communicate with me yet.

I don’t answer nor return WH call every single time he calls. When we do speak on the phone I am short and to the point. I am not the sweet person I should be but I’m definitely not the angry person I was before either. I HATE talking to him on the phone since I discovered his A’s. His affairs were PA but they were carried on mostly over his cell phone. He made at least 20 calls per day to these OWs at all times of the day. So whenever WH calls me I feel like I’m one of the OW’s on his list that he needs to call and I don’t like the feeling.

Is it normal, while in plan a, to feel like I’m doing this just for the heck of it? I mean, I don’t feel like I’m giving this my all–I’m not being genuine. It’s more like a was handed a script and I’m reading it and acting from it. My gut tell me that my WH is not capable of changing, that he’s enjoying this lifestyle and that no matter what I do it won’t make a difference. I hate him for doing this to us and some times I think I’ll be better off without him in the long run. If we were to reconcile, we will never have that innonence....that thing that i taught made our M special.......what we once had. I don’t think I can ever fully trust, respect and love him like I did BUT I’m willing to try anyway. Therefore I don’t know how good of a plan a I’ve been doing so far.

devastatedmom...

lets break it down to the facts we know...

husband has verbally expressed at this point in his life the desire to be free and date...

you can't CHANGE him....
you can try to do many things..
educate,
conjole,
bully
control
be emotionally volitile...
yell
scream
physically act out
threaten
etc...

even worse..
except piss poor behavior
bargain
and ignore...

you in fact have a world of options in front of you

it may be that he won't feel safe to communicate with you because his communication is crap,.,,,

what do you think...
he should communicate with you to convince you he CAN'T be a decent guy and you should be happy that he is happy dating....???

what is there to communicate right now...

he's not capable of anything but selfish selfish thought processes...

but you can try...but communicating with such a being will bring you great pain, confusion and frustration enough to blow your blood pressure....

and you can also begin to argue and powerstruggle...and get really really emotional....
you can...

follow each type of reaction you could have...follow it through...

picture you crying
picture you begging
picture you lecturing
picture each and every way you COULD respond...and follow it through in your head....

and i am not saying these things in a negative way or a taunting way..I am saying picture all the different ways you can and could react...and see which one in the end will serve you the greatest..

sometimes being mad is the right choice...

are you doing this for the heck of it...

what else could you be doing...
file for divorce...
you may want to prepare that route a little...
get your feet wet and roll the thought around on your tongue a bit...

can you be sweeter and more upbeat on the phone...
why not try it....
what do you have to lose if you expect NO reaction
and what do you have to gain if you show him glimpses of you being hopeful....

I am not saying to go to plan b now...but I am saying prepare now...write the letter now so you have time to work on it...

and if you can pick a date in few weeks then you can set goals...

on monday I will go to his work and drop off a favorite dessert...

on wednesday I will call on the spur and invite him to meet us here or there for dinner...

on friday I will fill in the blank..

make goals...
plant seeds...

find an old email or joke that made you laugh and send it one day....

give him back a gift he once gave you that has meaning to him and you and tell him that you no longer want it in your home...etc etc etc....

plan your plan A...
execute expecting NOTHING.
execute it knowing you will not be exposing yourself to this indefinitetly...

ARK

Thanks again. Sometimes you need someone to point these things out to you in order for you to SEE it. You’re right. I did all these things and obviously they didn’t work.

you can try to do many things..
educate,
conjole,
bully
control
be emotionally volitile...
yell
scream
physically act out - except this one
threaten
etc...

picture you crying
picture you begging
picture you lecturing
picture each and every way you COULD respond...and follow it through in your head....

and i am not saying these things in a negative way or a taunting way..I am saying picture all the different ways you can and could react...and see which one in the end will serve you the greatest..

I need to step it up a bit.

I have nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain.

I’m going to continue to plan a him but will start thinking about the plan b letter.

Does plan b usually start with a letter? Do you know of any plan b letters that i can use as reference?

How do i implement plan b with an infant involved? I will not allow my WH to leave my home with DS.

Friday evening he calls to ask about DS and makes it a point to tell me that he got DS a present but will give it to him when he gets back from his “weekend getaway”. I made no comments and said ok.

WH calls on Sunday and leaves a message on my cell phone and home phone wishing us a happy new year. I didn’t answer the calls because i couldn’t see who was calling on my caller id......he blocked the calls and said he would try again later. WH called again and blocked his number AGAIN so i refused to answer.....no message this time around. Why was he blocking his number on purpose??? Was he really away and he couldn’t get a signal on his phone??? I called his cell and blocked my number and sure enough he picked up the phone but then turned it off so i couldn’t get a hold of him and really make it seem like he’s away. He calls again yesterday, blocks his number again, now i know he can call from his phone because i called on Sunday and he picked up. Why would he want to deceive me into thinking that he’s away. I know he’s doing it because i told him i was thinking about going away when he saw the travel brochures and asked.......i think WH did this to get back at me..........hasn’t he done enough? What is he trying to do......push my buttons and see what my reaction will be? WHY???

I’m extremely pissed off right now....he’s called several times today and i haven’t answered his calls.......if i do i will LB him all over the place. Why is he trying to get a reaction from me when he says he doesn’t care or want me? He’s really pushing my WRONG buttons. WH is going to ask why didn't i answer his calls this weekend....how should i respond.....

Time to start thinking about my plan B.

don't lb
don't react...

be nice nice nice...

he is waiting for you to explode to accuse you of not changing and being angry...

don't you dare dare dare play in to his hands...

call him up be happy say...oooh I saw you had called and I couldn't find the dang phone...
sorry ...bout that...

I only got a second here..what do you need dear?...

don't you dare dare dare LB....

ARK

he is waiting for you to explode to accuse you of not changing and being angry...

oooh I saw you had called and I couldn't find the dang phone...
sorry ...bout that...

he's been callin my job today not cell. so i'll wait for him to call again. i know it's him because he's the only one that calls and doesn't leave messages.


GOT IT. I'll be nice. I'll get into my happy mode right now. I'll pick up when he calls again which should be in a couple of minutes.

Ok. Not sure if I just LB my WH.....but this is where I draw the line. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

DS has been sick for the last couple of days so WH just calls and tells me that he just spoke to a friend whose a nurse and she suggested.....I stopped him right then and there.........I have no idea who this friend is so I’m sitting here guessing it’s one of his wh*res. I couldn’t help it......I exploded...but tried to remain as calm as I could. I told him how disrespectful he was being and that no “friend” of his was going to tell me how to treat my sick child and that I would appreciate it if he didn’t go around asking his “friend” for advice about DS. He immediately apologized and said that this friend was just a friend and nothing more. That he doesn’t talk about DS to anyone.....yeah right. That I’m a good mother and he trusts my judgement but he just wanted to help out......yeah well you can start by being the husband and father that we need you to be (of course I didn’t say that).

I was doing so well with plan a up until the holidays.....now I can’t seem to jump back on the wagon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I think what little love I have left is slowly deteriorating....so I called the Harleys and scheduled an appointment with SH for Friday. I’m nervous about that....anyone have any suggestions/advice as to how I should prepare for the session?

Sounds like you haven't done too bad from what you say.

Make sure you send Steve Harley a summary of your situation and where you are at so you don't waste the hour bringing him up to speed.

You will be in good hands with Steve. Haven't heard a bad word spoken about him.

Blessings.

thanks bigkahuna

I'll do that right now.

Anyone else?

Well, late last night WH calls to ask how DS is feeling. I said he’s still sick and it’s going to be another sleepless night for me. Shortly after we hang up he calls again and says if he can spend the night on the couch so that he can take care of DS while I try to catch up on my sleep. I said sure, that fine. We had a pleasant evening—whatever was left of it and plan a ing him came natural........yeah I guess I’m back on the wagon again. WH took care of DS the entire night—of course I did get up once to check on WH and see how he was handling things.

In the morning, I thanked him and told him that it helped me a lot and that I was proud of him for the way he handled the baby all by himself. I was surprised when I was about to drive away and he said that he was going with me to drop the baby off...yes it’s on our way to work but he had his car and I thought he would drive his own car to work. That means we’ll be driving home together again in the evening today. I’m kind of looking forward to it and I’m going to continue to be sweet, sweet, sweet.

It felt really nice having him over and accompanying us on the drive. I don’t know what this means if anything but for a couple of hours it seemed like I had my old H back.......the sweet, caring, unselfish man I married.......not the jerk he’s been lately.

I exploded...but tried to remain as calm as I could. I told him how disrespectful he was being and that no “friend” of his was going to tell me how to treat my sick child and that I would appreciate it if he didn’t go around asking his “friend” for advice about DS.


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

sounds like a wonderful wonderful thing just happened...

devastedwoman...strongly professed her disdain to her husband about his actions...

HOW DID SHE DO THIS???????????????

well she did it calmly.......!!!

AND WHAT DID FOGGEDUP WS DO....

well he APOLOGIZED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

my my what is this...
plan A in action working...

fogged up WS didnt' get defensive
fogged up WS didn't retaliate...
infact he didnt' even really deny....

he LISTENED to her
AND
he APOLOGIZED....

my my

what she didn't say was...

yeah well you can start by being the husband and father that we need you to be (of course I didn’t say that).

pretty soon devastatedWOMAN <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
is going to be strong enough to say to foggedupWS...

dear..baby son and I don't need you to go to third parties for help...DS needs YOU ....

devastatedwoman doesn't sound so very devastated to me..
but sounds like a strong person able to communicate boundaries and thoughts in a way that elicit an APOLOGY

dead on straight forward reality based communication...

sounds like a celebration is due to this poster and her adorable son...who has a mamma doing the right thing...for him....

ARK^^ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />