I think you might want to reconsider and perhaps accept the fact that what you seek may not be here.

Conversation:

Senator to Wife: I feel foolish when I am not able to tell people where you are. Your relatives call or one of our children ask, and I have not clue. You could leave me a note or a message.Thjis has to do with maintaining respect from others.

Senator's Wife: I understand, I will try to do better.


Senator's Rant about W: I am not interested in looking and feeling foolish.

You are not putting in time for discussing issues, to get approaches to problems, let alone spending time in a secret garden.

You seem to feel guilty thst you spend too much time with your church and relatives, then yhou don't tell me where you are dgoing, as a means of handling your guilt, then I feel more upset because you have not let me know your plans.

So this is a downward spiral. Perhaps I play a role int eh cycle downwards. What can we each to to try to change to approach solving the guilt tripping?

You are not giving me a feeling of trustworthiness. You are not that good at keeping things secret. People don't want to hurt your feelings, so just becasue the don't say anything, doe not mean that they don't know, at least on a level of suspicion. You are not coming close to trying to be above suspicion.


Idfeas of Beliefs?

Senator to Wife: I feel foolish when I am not able to tell people where you are. Your reelatives call or one of our children ask, and I have not clue. You could leave me a note or a message.Thjis has to do with maintaining respect from others.

Perfect example of a Love Buster...ie, translates to "YOU ARE A DISRESPECTFUL PERSON.

Could have said... I'd be delighted to take messages or forward calls to you, if you let me know where you can be reached. No attitude, no overtones, just direct, honest communication.

What we say, and how we say it can be the biggest of Love Busters. You need to measure every word that comes out of your mouth, carefully.

In addition, you are trying to "educate" her, all in the same statement, the way it was worded.

Think about it...

SD

Dear SD,

It is true that my words could have been spoken in a disrecptful manner. I feel I am polite in my tone of voice, and I have checked this with my wife.

Here is a Link to the part of the Divorcing Divorce thread where I ask my wife if she feels I am Love Busting:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=1&fpart=8

Did your wife believe that she would not get caught?

Did your wife believe she was getting even with you for something? What?

Did your wife believe that you would not change to be more considerate?

What are all the things your wife believed that you would not change?

Did your wife believe she would have a better future with the other man?

Did your wife have built up resentmetn that she did not recognize, and believed she was just having fun?

Was you Wife in a fog, so that she did not believe that her actions were her responsibility?

What additonal beliefs should I be looking for?

Did your wife believe that she would not get caught?

Very few infidels believe they will be caught. Most "slip" into affairs, somewhat unknowing about what they are doing. The attention and attraction from/to the OP, after they have crossed over some of the boundaries, becomes addictive, and like any drug or alcohol addiction, getting their fix becomes #1 in their life. Getting caught is in the back of their minds, but the addiction leads them to believe they are invincible, and, in their twisted way of thinking, they think the damage is going to be easily managed, or explained away. How little they realize the path of destruction they cause.

Did your wife believe she was getting even with you for something? What?

Perhaps. For years of choosing career "over" her, for many days spend with friends on the golf course, or fishing, hunting, guy stuff, leaving her with the kids and feeling neglected and resentful.

Did your wife believe that you would not change to be more considerate?

Probably. She had voiced her annoyance at several things over the years that I just "blew off". You know, whiney, naggy wife. So I indulged myself in selfish entitlement, leading her to believe I didn't really care or respect her.

What are all the things your wife believed that you would not change?

All of the thing that over the years she expressed concerns about, that I didn't attend to.

Did your wife believe she would have a better future with the other man? That was not the issue. She was having a better "here and now" with the OM. He said the right things, valided her feelings about her "horrible" marriage, was full of compliments for her and "empathized" with her marital woes. A very accomplished adulterer, practiced in his trade, with total disregard for the wreckage his actions would create.

Did your wife have built up resentmetn that she did not recognize, and believed she was just having fun?

Oh, I believe she recognized it, and instead of coming to me and saying, honey we have some problems...we need to see a counselor, because I have some feelings you are not acknowledging or reacting too, in a manner that is agreeable to me. I think the resentment turned into total disdain, and when that happened, she would not even accept ANY good I had to offer, and was vulnerable to any good from any OM....right time, right place.

Was you Wife in a fog, so that she did not believe that her actions were her responsibility?

From her standpoint, it was all MY fault. All of my shortfalls were exaggerated in her mind tenfold. I could do nothing right, her Love Bank was closed to any deposits I could make. Her bank became only open to deposits the OM was making, and she would open her LB$ to him even on weekends and holidays if necessary. There are no words to describe how totally out of character, and out of touch with reality a WS spouse becomes when they are in the addiction of an affair. Wonderful parents will forsake their children. Once loving mates will cause the utter downfall of 20 plus years of accumulated wealth. Nothing is more important than getting their fix. Nothing.

The sad thing is, the Betrayed Spouse, who is suffering so much utter destruction with the discovery of the affair, has to hike up his/her shorts and come to the realization that the HARD, HARD WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN ORDER TO PUT THE MARRIAGE IN A POSITION WHERE RECONCILIATION IS POSSIBLE. Expect nothing from the WS, because until they are in complete No Contact, and totally out of Withdrawal, they will not contribute to any reconciliation whatsoever.

There may be no greater truth regarding affairs than what I just wrote.

Your actions may not be readily acknowleged by you wife as Lovebusters, but they still may be perceived that way. The only way to change someone else, is to influence them by changes in your own actions. Einstein said insanity is to do things the same way you always done them and to expect different results.

I hope this helps a bit.

Best wishes,
SD

You speak disrespectful judgments with sweet tones - and expect her to not perceive how you condescend to be in a relationship with her. Come down off your pedistal; humble yourself; be human. Or give your wife the kindest gift you could give and get out of her life.

Dear SD,

Thanks for the insights.

Further Rants:

Senator to Wife: Because I often do not know where you are, everyone already suspects that you are fooing around. Soi if you think you are going to carry on an affair, and fool anyone, they are already suspiscious.

So Let me understand why you want to remain married, yet minimize any time spent with me, or addressing my intersts/desires.

Dear Kayla Andy,

I have the book His Needs Her Needs. For you, I will look back over it. But the Love Busters are spelled out fairly well in the information on the MB website.

I have no hesitation getting out of my wife's home. When I offer to leave, she promises to change.

What would you like to improve now in your realtionship?

I would like to have a better feeling of fidelity, respect and cooperation.

What are your beliefs about changes?

I have never suggested confrontation. If you will recall, I suggested counseling. You seem to be so blinded by your own needs that you're oblivious to the affect your actions and words have on others.

As I said earlier, your house is burning to the ground and you're concerned about dirty dishes in the sink. Again, you need to seek one on one counseling. This forum as the previous forum will not help. You're unable to "listen" to anything posted to you.

Google narcissism and see if anything is familiar...

Senator to Wife: Because I often do not know where you are, everyone already suspects that you are fooing around. So if you think you are going to carry on an affair, and fool anyone, they are already suspiscious. Another Love Buster (disrespectful judgement)

All of your remarks to your wife are "you" this and "you" that. Try just speaking to her in terms of "I" and reflect on YOUR feelings, in a respectful manner.

It appears that you need an in-depth review of Love Busters.

You have an arrogance about you that has probably overwhelmed your wife for a long time, and like my W, dislike turned to disdain, and she didn't give a flip about me or my feelings, let alone respect me.

You should schedule a meeting with an Individual Counselor, and go to work on you, before you start saving your marriage in any other way. Just my 2 cents worth...

Best wishes,
SD



Every time you say "you" you are in the process of issuing a lovebuster.

This really hits the nail on the head. Senator, something that screams in your posts is that you think you know everything and are very condescending and arrogant to everyone because of this belief. Your posts scream, "Hey everybody, look at me, I'm off the charts smart and you're not and, because of that, my wife and son should listen to me and my ideas because I know everything." The thing is Senator, you can have all the smarts in the world but, if you don't know how to talk to people, you have nothing. (My Mom calls it, "book smart, common sense stupid). If you talk to your wife and son like a "know it all" and treat them as if they know nothing and can do nothing (maybe this is why your 27-year old son is still living at home), then they will have NO respect for you. Plain and simple, they will hate you. Your wife may be staying because she has become comfortable with the tangible lifestyle. Your son is staying because, "if Dad and Mom are stupid enough to let me freeload off of them, why not take advantage of it!" (Most people of 27-years old do not sponge off of Mommy and Daddy, even if they are still going to school - BTW, that's called being a "professional student").

Your posts remind me of the man I lived with prior to meeting my now XH (don't let the "X" part fool you, we are taking baby steps toward reconciliation). In fact, I would be convinced you were him if not for the 27-year old son part. This guy is truly off the charts brilliant. He went to an Ivy League school and graduated Magna Cum Laude with a degree in Engineering. He then earned his MBA in Finance at one of the highest ranked business schools in the country, graduating with High Honors from that school. Financially, he worth several Million - all made through various stock markets - yes, plural because he speculates on the International markets). Truly, truly, truly brilliant. Yet, he cannot interact with others and has a difficult time maintaining long-term relationships. (He is currently married to a mail-order Russian woman he met through an Internet site). WHY? Because he is socially retarded. He speaks condescendingly to others, cannot hold a conversation and nits and nats over little things. (We actually had a huge fight because I dared to use jewelry cleaner to clean my jewelry on top the closed washing machine. He was concerned it would spill and hurt the finish on the washing machine - couldn't have cared less that jewelry cleaner is nothing much more than ammonia water with added color). He did not have a clue - Senator, your clue phone is ringing....are you going to answer it or stay in the dark thinking you know everything?

BB

What troubles me more that her cheating, is that I don't feel comfortable at home. I cannot be productive in my work at home.

Many people have difficulty workng at home, and perhaps I should just make arrangements to do any or my productive work outside the home.

I need some words to ward off the hostile vibrations from Son and Wife, and distractions.

COACHING TOWARD FIDELITY:

I aasked W to not discuss her complaints about the home or about me with others. Meaning OM.


I made some progress getting W off my case, and reapired her earphones so she can watch TV while I am working in the bedroom.

It is nice to have W around for taking breakes, but she gets me stireed up with her complaining, so it i9s difficult for me to focus on my bills, sorting research and keeping up the house,


Ideas?

Radical Honesty is a good, general principle. Everyone makes exceptions from time to time.

Maybe one exception I could ask from my wife, is to keep all pre-marital and extra-marital sexual encounters secret. I think I would prefer not knowing.

The easiest way to keep an affair secret, is don't have one.

POSSIBLE REASONS FOR MY WIFE'S AFFAIR:


One motivation for an affair may be a Polarity Response. That is doing the opposite of what she is supposed to do.

There may be one or several factors kicking in a Polarity Response. One factor may be my wife fails to control here impulsively adopting increased expectations, in one aspect of marriage or another. If my wife were able to take the overall marriage into account, on a consistent basis, her slicing out a category for intense attention, might be shortened or reduced. Since my wife more than occasionally goes of f on a tangent of overemphasis, she sometimes has the view of my being an inadequate husband.

Possible Senator Leadership Retort to W: "Please change your focus from Inadequacy A, and describe an advantage of your marriage, in a different viewpoint. Describe another advantage, in another different viewpoint."

Another Possible motivation could be that my wife is feeling that she cannot depend upon my resources to fulfill the expectations she has for Life. Therefore, she needs to keep trying to hook some other guy, who she envisions as better able to meet her desires for time, attention and riches.

Another possibility is that my wife is simply a sucker for a reasonably good line. So when somebody comes along with a good story, she falls out of the marriage cart.

Another possibility is that I am poorly suited for my wife, as a husband, and the marriage will continue to experience trouble.

Another possibility is the my wife and I have a dynamically passionate relationship, which involves highs and lows, and to find the highs that I have with my wife, I am going to have to figure on some lows. The alternative being to find a wife whom I love less intensely, yet who will be better able to walk the line.

UNDERLYING CHEATING BELIEFS:

Some affairs by a wife could have different meanings, and be based upon different possible beliefs.

Wife's Belief 1: My husband will understand that I still intend to give my husband a lot of love in the future, and the actual love in the past, plus the anticipation of my Love in th future will create forgiveness for me.

W Belief 2: Since my indiscretions will never be discovered, there is no reason for my husband to decrease his love and trust for me.

Husband Belief A: I can rely upon my wife to always be faithful to me.

H Belief: B: I have trust in my wife's emotional devotion to me, so that if my wife has Sexual encounters with others, behind my back, there is still an emotional attachment that I can trust from my wife.

H Belief C: I have trust in my wife's emotional devotion to me, so that if my wife has emotional and sexual encounters, behind my back, that I can still rely upon an emotional attachment to me, from my wife.

H Belief D: I have faith in my wife's emotional attachment to me, for the future, and I would prefer that she keep any emotional or sexual encounters with others, in secret, as much as possible, so that I have less to explain to the children, and my friends and relatives.

H Belief E: I have faith in my wife's emotional attachment to me, and her enjoyment of sex with others does not diminish my wife's commitment to me, and out marriage.

H Belief F: I believe my openness to discuss my wife's sexual desires and encounters with others makes our marriage stronger, and based more upon reality.

Ideas?

Senator H - Well, I read through all of your posts and found them quite interesting. Do you have a plan at all, or are you still formulating it?

The Senator appears to be a thinker and not a doer. I've skimmed your threads for the first time tonight and would give a more cogent suggestion if I had more energy.

Simply put. Your wife is having an affair to satisfy Emotional needs that are not being met by you, but probably were during your courtship. I cannot believe that it is so difficult for her to say 'No' that if you were cherishing her the way she needs that she wouldn't be having an affair.

I've discovered that setting limits is important. I set my limit at "It's not OK for you to have an affair with a 19 year old boy." She didn't like it. She picked the boy.

I chose not to continue a relationship with her. I also discovered I couldn't meet the needs she had, and they weren't healthy either. But that was part of my process.

You need to find out where you and your wife are. But first, you need to reveal the affair to everyone that's close to you. Melody Lane is on target.

I'm off.

SleeplessnSeattle

Hi, Senator.

If you want to understand your wife's affair(s), the first step is to accept the fact that you know nothing at all about affairs and almost as little about relationships. Once you take that step, you will find a wealth of information from research posted on this website and referenced in the suggested reading. Additionally, you will get actual case data from the posters who have been through affairs from almost every possible entry and exit point.

All the best,
Gimble

Senator,

<Plank thrashes Senator about the head and shoulders with a 2x4!>

What in the hel! is the problem here?

You are a researcher yes?

Research Hartley’s main page at www.marriagebuilders.com. Start to finish read it all.

He’s the qualified expert with the credentials and experience to back it up.

At this point you are not researching. You are creating a whole new world of infidelity reasoning that is WRONG! You will not succeed at this.

To be more blunt'r:

Be a man.
Look inside yourself.
Get some damn IC so you can be the best person you can be.
Quit trying to be a psychologist/psychiatrist.
Work a plan! You still have none after all this time of theorizing.
Be a leader.
Deal with your immature son. (Great IC topic)
Move your as$.

Your line of thinking is making you the most A enabling spouse I have ever read about.

It is time for a wake up call.

From the information you have presented so far you need some personal help.

Ideas?

Plank.

Dear Sleepless in Seattle,

Thank you for sharing your experience of reaching a limit with your wife. I have not yet reached the decision that you made, that your wife's expectations were beyond what you were willing to deal with.

I am in the thinking stage, as you point out. I am attempting to formulate the attitude, philosophy and grounding in reality, that can form the basis of action.

Ideas?

Dear Plank,

Thank you for the suggestion of an Individual Counseling goal of dealing with my College Son.

Ranting Phrase to my Wife: I don't know if you are actually having an affair, or if you are just trying to make me jealous by allowing hints to come out in your conversation, about the possibility of infidelity. Either way, I want you to be more careful about keeping Fidelity Concepts secret. I don't want to hear and hints about any pre-marital or extra-marital affairs. Marriages sometimes fall apart from even innuendos about cheating. If you are having trouble avoiding temptations, or if you are just unhappy, I suggest you talk to a counselor. I am willing to discuss your unhappiness, but not infidelity.

Ideas?

Update:

My wife is is continuing to complain about my using the basement for my research stuff. I feel Wife has the first floor for entertaining, which as the kitchen, Living Room and Dining Room, decorated with her choices. That is adequate for entertaining, in my opinion. She also wants to have the basement as a rec room.

I asked my wife for assurances about the future, and she was not responsive.

I would like to have assurances fro her that I can trust her. I am not getting that.

Ideas?