Milk, thanks for your thoughts.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am really doing much better. Things that would have send me into complete panic mode, now I am able to think about more calmly and rationally and I keep on track. They still hurt a little, but it does seem my heart is coming more in sink with my mind every day. Even things that are happening that would have been very painful to me just 2 months ago, now my mind is able to reason with. It is refreshing. Well, I am still not "pain free" but I am getting there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I went to that gettogether last night. We ended up watching movies at my friends house. It was a really nice evening. I really enjoyed myself. I spoke to H the same way as I did with other people. I did not single him out in any way. He was just another guy in the room. I did respond to somethings he said when I felt like.

I had wine (never do), and it was actually nice. (just one glass <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). I had come from work so I was dress nice. I was not even that nervous about seeing him again when he came. We said hi and the dinner continued.

I had a good time and he seemed to have a good time.

At the end of the dinner, I offered to give him a ride (mainly because it was after midnight, it is on my way, and to spare my friend ~ whose wife is pregnant ~ from going out there). He talked most of the ride over to his house. I just spoke little here and there so that he could keep up the conversation. We eneded up sitting in the car for 5 minutes infront of his house as he kept up the topic he was on. When it seemed that the topic was exhausted, I said it was late and I had to get going (this is where I would usually try to get him to stay longer by starting another topic and then we would have an akward goodbey as he would end it). So, I ended it and we said goodnight.

I feel good. I know I can have a good life without him. I know we had problems, we had issues, we are equaly responsible for the breakdown in the relationship. I know now what needed to be done differently and I know that I am willing. He is not. My life does not end here. He is a nice guy, but at the end of the day, he is a man who does not want to be with me and I am not going to chase after him. I am going to go get myself a life that I can enjoy. My mind is not close to reconsiliation, if he was to suggest it. However, I am moving on with my life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Daisy-
Sounds like you are doing very well. It's so nice to get to
a place of feeling some "peace". Like all of us, I don't
know how things/I am going to end up, but I am feeling like
I am handling things a little better and thinking before I
react. Also, a big part of it is not feeling like I have to
react at all, and just "being still". (and going on with our
lives).
Best to you-
Slammed

Thanks slammed!

My post on another tread had me thinking.

H did not leave for an A (no evidence). But H does seem to be contacting old girl friends and connecting with new girls, and I have a feeling that him 'seeing someone' is very much a posibility!

If H starts dating (there are signs that this is going on), I would say that it is not an A.

I know legally it can/will be seen as such.

But really, if we have no relationship (other then a piece of paper) he does not want to be with me, can this be an A?

I am not sure whether I should ignore it or what?

Daisy

Daisy,

I am on the same boat, and understand how you feel. I think about this too. Mine did not leave me for another woman, even though another woman DID trigger this whole thing to happen (STBXH was "in love" though it was an one-way emotional thing). It is very possible that he is seeing someone now, or at least he is trying to get a new relationship with someone else.

I know I will not be happy if I find out if this is the case. I will be very sad and depressed because I will feel like "this is it, it is TRULY over between us". But would I feel like he cheated on me? I am not sure how I would feel.

Although, seeing other women may be a shortcut for our spouses to really face the reality. True, they might very well end up being 100 times happier with the new partner than with us. But at the same time, it is very possible that they will realize that the grass was greener.

It will be very difficult to "ignore" it, but I feel that we have to try to move forward even if we find out the truth.

Milk,
Thanks for your words.....I am not ready to see H date. If that starts now before the D, I will not be friends with him. I don't know if I can do the friends thing anyway, but I certainly will not do that if he starts of with some woman before the D. This is so messed up. I cannot believe I am even thinking about all this. Ok, that is it. No more.

I had a nice evening. Went to a small concert. I inevitably thought of H because he and I would usually go, he loves these things so much. It got me thinking about these jazz concert tickets I have for the 23rd. I have season tickets and last time I asked H to come with me because he loves life performance, and loves jazz. I don't know anyone else who would like to come along, I only got one extra ticket. He is the only one I know that would really appreciate it. Now, I don't know what I'll do with my ticket. I want to ask him if he wants to go, but the image that he will think I am again persuing him is enough for me to just go alone. I don't mind going alone anyway.

I got a troubled cat over here. She has some problem with her eye. I hope it is nothing serious.

Daisy

My cat got a serious eye infection. Within half an hour it was really bad. I called H about it (it was 12:45pm). He was not there. I took her to the emergency. She will be ok.

I really hate days like this<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />. It sends me off of my path. I panicked and called H, left a message to call (he never did). Later I realized that there was nothing he could have done anyway, and that I probably called in a moment of weekness to have him 'by my side' so to speak <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

This morning was not good. I ended up sending him an email telling him about the cat (short and to the point). It was just another realization how seperate our lives are and just how over this whole thing is. I know I'll be ok eventually. I just want to be ok now. I just ended up crying today. I have not cried in 3 weeks, why today?

Even thoughts of the past, the good times have not been hounting me for 3 weeks and now it all came to a head again. Why?

I don't think it helped thinking about H dating. He just looked so happy on Friday. I prayed to God to help me have peace in my life, but I could not help praying today that he brings him back into my life. It is so futile <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.

I got to pull myself together again.

Daisy

I also realized today that it has been 2 months since we hung out and watched a movie at my house.

It made me realized that I am not as far along as I thought I was. I should not be counting things like this.

Darn.

Daisy

I got out of the house. I hoped I would feel better, but it is just worse and worse <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. Cannot seem to get out of this rut. It's all come back to me and it feels like my H just left yesterday<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />.

Do you guys also have these days? Everything was going well, I was doing good, and now without warning I am so low <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. Cannot stop crying.

H called while I was out. Said he would call back. I cannot talk to him today. He would know I am misserable and he is the last person I want to know that(this sentence sounds strange ~gramatically~ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

I got to take it easy.....but I cannot help but cry. Will I ever be happy again? This is just taking too long and he is happy. I don't get it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.


Daisy

bump

Hey, Jennifer68 thanks!

You know I meant to tell you I love your response to "Ashley", I just did not want to engage on her thread any longer.



I am feeling a little better now. I think thoughts of H dating creap in and it does me no good. But then I remember all the folks here dealing with infidelity and how strong you guys are and it helps to pull myself together.....H is gone, I got to accept it.

Daisy

Jen....

Love your strategy!


Daisy!

Saw H today. He came by my office to pick up some papers he needed for the immigration stuff. We talked for about 1/2 hour. It was a nice relaxing kind of talk. I don't really know what to think about all this.

I have this really strage feeling when we talk. I see him in front of me and look at him and see him in a realy "REAL" way. He is just a man, no fantasy that I concact of him when I am alone and don't see him for a while (and then I cry and miss him like crazy). I see him and I see that he has not really changed much. He is a good guy, no doubt. Yet, he still doesn't have it together. He is just kind of going along, still does thing kind of half hazardly (as far as important business matters are concered ~ I really don't see him filing for D)

He mentioned something about having Insomnia now. He thinks it is because he increased medication (for his depression) and this is a site effect. This is when I get reminded of the reality. He has depression for life! It is not going to change. When we were together he found it imposible to deal with me, and the last year he just felt more and more depressed. I don't want to be the couse of it anymore. I know I am not, but that is how he perceived it. I realized the other day that I do love the fact that I can walk around my house, run up and down, do this or that, and not worry about having a depressed individual around me. I don't have to wonder about how I say things, what I say, I don't walk around on egg-shells anymore.

His depression caused me to be depressed. Then when I got depressed he was there for me (he was always understanding) and he helped me get out of it, he was positive about life, and then as soon as I got out of it, he went right back to being depressed and draging me down again. I know now that I am responsible for my own happiness and that I don't have to be depressed if he is. Yet, I do wonder if it would be any different a second time around because how can you really be happy when your partner (who you love, care for, and want the best for) is depressed most of the time and when he is not, can become depressed in a matter of minutes.

I do wonder about this medication thing. He seems to be continuosly increasing the dose. I did not ask if that was adviced by a doctor or not (he has a history of fiddeling around with that on his own), but he did say he was going to go see a doctor about it all. I wish they would finally find something that works for him so he could have a normal life. I do wonder however if his attitude plays a role. He basically does not really believe that he will ever be normal, that anythign is really going to work. He says that without medication he is in ******, but with it is better, but not great. Damit, I wish they would find some right medication for him.


I had some good news at work and if all comes through it will be a really good opportunity for me. I am really excited about it. So at least on that front things are working out.

Daisy

Then when I got depressed he was there for me (he was always understanding) and he helped me get out of it, he was positive about life

Hi daisy, I'm not sure how he could be positive about life and be chronically, clinically depressed. There's something not congruent there. I think that he may try to appear that way but don't really believe it. Because it is difficult to be positive about life when you're chronically depressed.
It almost appears to me that he has some idealistic view on life but as life turns out not to always be idealistic, realism hit him and he really doesn't know how to deal with reality, as it is not consistent with his idealism. This causes an internal conflict which drives him into depression. Hmmm, come to think of it I think I've come across people like that. They tend to be more lay back, artist, or the hippy types...
Well, I'm no therapist, I'm just pulling BS our of my [censored].

Anyways good for you on your work opportunity... What is it you do at work again?

Stu,
You are right. I guess he knew what I needed to hear to feel better, but did not really believe this for himself.
BTW, he is quite an artist type, playes music, writes poetry and other things, draws strage pictures, etc. So, maybe this fits, but it may be a generalization.

I don't like to hear about the whole medication issue. I really wish for him to be well. I hate hearing that he is not sleeping now. I asked him if he was still taking the night medication (to help him sleep), he said yes, but it is not working right now. This is so odd, because i know once he would take it, he slept for hours like a log. So maybe the new medication is having some crazy effect on his intire system. I don't like to hear that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I did look at a website yesterday to see if one should drink and take this AD medication. H does drink. They don't recommend it but there are no studies to support that drinking and taking the AD meds has sight effects. I really don't know much about this at all.

I am a 'fix the problem' type of a person and I don't like hearing all this because it makes me want to reach out to him, be there for him. He does not want me there though so I will just be rejected if I act on my feelings. So, I got a real heart/mind conflict going on today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I have tickets to a jazz concert for Monday. We went to the last one together in Oct. and I planned to ask him to come with me to this one, but have since changed my mind. Now, I am tempted to ask him to come along again. I don't know if I should or not. I guess unless I am prepaired to be rejected and not let that get to me, I should not ask.

I am an academic researcher. I was invited to submit a paper and have it published in a book series, so I am excited. Chances are prity high that it will be published. I get excited about this stuff because last year after H left my carrier suffered such a blow; it will never be able to recover fully. It sucks, but life goes on.

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I cannot seem to feel better today.

I wonder if I should stop having conversations with H. The med thing has me concerned for him.

Then at one point he was telling me how he got promoted at work from dish-washer to buss-boy and thinks in the summer he'll be a waiter. He was just saying it and talking about how the money will be good and that he will always be able to find a waiter job in the city. He talked about it like this was some carrier path. He is such an inteligent guy, it all seems like a waste to me.

This then gets me to wonder. Have I changed at all? Why am I so critical of him. If he wants to take classes to learn and not really do anything with it and end up being a waiter, maybe that is good for him. Who am I to judge him. If I really want the best for him then I should just support whatever decision he makes, right?

I guess we will be getting D, so it really should not be my concern, but that piece of paper does not change the fact that I care about him and what him to have a good life.

This week feels too long, and it is only Tuesday.

Daisy

Most AD's are not significantly affected by alcohol unless he is drinking copious amounts. But not knowing which one he is actually on is difficult to say.

Dear WhiteDaisy,

Stu wrote:



Not exactly out of your [censored], Stu! You are actually right on. You are describing the Enneagram type Four. They used to be called the Tragic Romantic, but it seemed so degrading that most people don't use that term any longer. However, it fits perfectly.

An unhealthy Four is waiting for someone to rescue them from their ordinary life. They feel that they are very special and that ordinary folk like you and I aren't capable of matching their ability to feel deep emotion...especially their emotional pain. (My H is this type.) They are constantly on guard for that one person who will understand them and rescue them from their misery. That person doesn't actually exist! And they don't really WANT to be rescued from their misery! They also are completely sold on the idea that it is someone else's job to MAKE them happy. They don't see it as their own responsibility. (This is all when they are average to unhealthy.) They look outside of themselves for answers when they are actually inside of themselves all along.

My Enneagram teacher said that many Fours would prefer to sit around smoking pot than to hold a job. These are very intelligent people, too! They are dreamers though and have a hard time connecting with the present. They look to their past and romance the melancholy there and to their future longing for their rescuer. They always feel like something is missing...like they have a hole in them that needs to be filled.

It's very hard to remain unaffected by the depression of a type Four partner. You have to have very strong personal boundaries. Enforcing them will infuriate the Four. They experience it as abandonment. They will tell you that you hold the key to their happiness in your hand. All you have to do is to love them deeply and do whatever they ask in the name of love. If you do this, however, they will reject it and you along with it. They crave intimacy, but are terrified of it at the same time (but have no idea they are this way). If they actually WERE intimate, they'd be betraying that desire to be melancholic! So they do this push/pull thing...classic Four! They pull you in, begging you for intimacy and then as soon as you want to give it, they pull away, rejecting it and YOU. It's a very painful and confusing cycle. They aren't actually aware of the cycle. When they become aware of it, they are usually quite ashamed of it and make an effort toward changing it as they move toward emotional health.

They are also prone to shame spirals. They don't believe they are worthy of love at times and then they can go back and forth from that to a sense of entitlement. The shame spiral puts them out of commission emotionally and they become completely unavailable to their partner.

If they can avoid the spiral, they can be very, very compassionate and empathetic...far more than any other type really. This is what draws the potential partners in. These people are sensitive, smart, funny and very empathetic. They'll listen to your sad stories, tell you theirs and comfort you. It's really wonderful until they know they have you for sure and then they panic when they realize you aren't actually the "one". Then they start the search all over again for the rescuer.

I could be way off here on your H's type, WD. I only read a bit of this thread. I'm a bit short on time so I apologize if I'm way off base. It's just that my H is a Four and we've been to he** and back together so I wanted to share what I know about them with you just in case that is what you are dealing with.

Stillwed

Still....thank you for your post!

check.
check.
check again.
check, check.

true.
I tried and it did not go over too well.
This sounds right.....
This was the case. H wanted me close but if I got close pushed me away. I could have been more set in my bonderies....


So true! H can be very compassionate.....it was always so shocking to me when he would change within 5 minutes. He was there, then we was not there at all. I was seen as the couse.
So, true! H would listen and comfort me. He still wants to do that, but it is so odd to me now! He does not want to be with me yet expects me to be intimate enough to share my sad stories.....I want to share them with my partner, not the guy who dumped me!

Well, I thought I was the one, I was told I was the one, but hey, it did not work, so I could not be the one. So he is on a new search. Well, actually, he has already looked in the past, "I have always loved you but we were never able to be together" (H's words to life time friend.....sheesh, like it would be any better with her.....) and he is already looking for new (meeting many new women....)

I think there is a lot in there that does match up. The up adn down for sure. I actually did not have any idea how "romatic" my H actually was until he left me. I always thought I was the romantic one, but I turned into the practical type I guess. I don't believe any of this 'we belong together' stuff. I love H, and I want to be with him. I think we could make it work. He does not believe we are compatible and probably does not think I am "the one" so on he goes to the next one.

My friend told me he will regret this one day, but I have a feeling he will not. I am not the one. He will not regret breaking it off with 'not the one'. Sad really.

Daisy

WhiteDaisy,

In the relationship with the Four, for the most part, the partner will aways be forced to be the practical one. Everything the unhealthy Four does is based on how they are feeling in the moment. They ACT on their feelings without engaging their thinking and their gut instincts. They have to move past this to get healthy and that often includes dealing with their depression.

I'm sorry...as you can see by my signature...I've been through the ringer too. When a Four is healthy, they are amazing partners! My H is now very healthy and he wants to spend the rest of his life making up for his affairs. He treats me like a queen and always did between affairs. It's been worth it to stay with him. We have a wonderful, happy and fulfilling marriage now. I'm sorry you haven't had the opportunity to see your H find that health.

Stillwed

This is interesting. When I spoke to S.H. he said "your H does things based on how he feels not based on what needs to be done".

I just had to laugh when I saw your post Still..because it was like dejavu.


I am sorry you had to deal with someone like this as well, in a depression and all. It is not easy. I am not convinced it is something I could handle if given the chance. My problem is that I am a type of person that takes on a chalange. It is in my nature to stragle and get things done and just do it and do it.....etc.

Thank you for your thoughts....

Best to you....
BTW, so what personality are you? I am curious to see what type gets atracted to the "romantic" type. Maybe I fit in that category.



Daisy