stu....

can you email me at trustyourgut14@hotmail.com

I just got this accout. I could not think of anything more appropriate.

Daisy

deleted

You've got mail

{{{Daisy}}}

I am sorry this is happening. But like you said, it might have been God's will that you found this out - you needed to know so that you can seriously consider whether you want to save this marriage or not. Although you are very upset now, you probably should not make any big decisions at this moment.

I think you should forward this email to yourself so that if you decide to file for D, you have some proof of adultry.

Remember, your WH is the one who is going to LOSE big time, not you, even if you decide to file for D. You are a young, attractive, loving, smart, and strong woman. Your WH has many issues - I do not think any relationships will last if your WH gets involved in anyone. He is getting excited about this because it is an affair. Who knows, he may even know himself that this is not real. Unless he attracts someone who is JUST LIKE him, it is not going to work. So he could lose everything he had.

Hugs,
Milk

thanks stu.....I did not get it yet, but I know the accout is working so I should get it soon.

Milk, thank you!

It does help. I think his email to her clearly demonstrates just how foged he is. He actually things there is nothing wrong with what he is doing. I think part of it is because noone knows (or so he thinks) and the person he is discussing this with is involved in an A too, so singing to his tune, basically.

I am not sure how to go about exposing this. I have not talked to anyone in his family in ages, and I know these people, they will IGNORE ME! Their son is an angel. They will see me as vendictive and he will have no problem convincing them that it is not an A but just a relationship now, since HE IS NOT MARRIED ANYMORE (deleted)

I know I will start with him. Confruntation. But I will wait. I am actually in such a better place now. 2 months ago, I would have broken down as I read this. Now, I have not cried (I will not waste my tears on him). I have been able to go and give 2 one hour talks and have been on, not even missed a beat. So, I am in a much better shape. 2 months ago, I had to cancle one of these talks when I read an email that was in some sense not as damaging as this one is (at least no A was reveiled then).

So, I think I am doing prity well.

Just trying to figure out WHEN to confrunt him. But the fact is there has been lots of red flags, I just refused to accept them because I wanted to believe in his character. Well, right now, he has none. Boy, and he is so smug, it amazes me. I was telling him about Desperate Housewifes (I watched a bunch of it on Sunday) and about one of them having an A, he did not even bet an eye. He is so confident, and he is convinced I am a fool, and trusting and will never see through all this.

Daisy

I was just about to call my H about the movie we had planned. I called but hung up after one ring. I got this really queezy feeling.

Maybe it is just temporary.

I don't know how I can hang out with him knowing he thinks he is getting away with it. I don't know.....

Daisy

If you don't feel comfortable calling, don't. You have been very strong and rational, and I would trust your gut feeling.

I am not doing very well since yesterday. I should not have had any false hope, but I did - because I haven't heard anything back from STBX regarding D for a while - and of course I was wrong. He still really wants D and does not want to get divorced in a nasty way. He is greedy. And I feel betrayed again. I hate feeling this way, and I am upset with myself that I allowed myself to get hurt again!

Hugs, Daisy. Be strong.
Milk

Hi Daisy-
Have been off the boards a few days, but was surprised and
sorry to hear of your recent discovery of the A with your
WH.
I know it is very hurtful and disppointing, but in a way I think it could make things better, as you now know what you are dealing with and can follow the appropriate steps to
handle it (Like Plan A or B) instead of wondering what had changed, and trying to figure out your WH's behavior and actions ? )
Have you read "Surviving an Affair" ?

As with my WH, I do think the depression certainly plays a
big part of them getting into an A, possibly much more than
us having not meant their EN's. I think it seems like they
feel down and depressed, and look to blame it on their M
or us, instead of realizing it's within themselves and
making the effort to resolve those issues. I guess they go
out looking for other people in an effort to "perk" them-
selves up, but undoubtedly find that the "high" is only
temporary and all their problems are still there !!
(Sounds like your WH is already noticing this, due to his
comment about it probably being better to just be friends).
I think it is odd that your WH is calling his A an A, but
agree with your comment, that he is talking about it with
another person having an A, so they are "singing the same
tune." There is certainly no "justification" for him
thinking it's okay though, in any circumstance. He IS still
married, so it's an AFFAIR, and not acceptable !

As you've probably seen in my recent updates, my WH finally did seek help and now has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and put on new meds which are making a huge difference in his mood and attitude. His Dr. has said it is quite common for people with bipolar to be mis-diagnosed with depression and put on the wrong meds, which either doesn't help any or can actually make them worse ! As your WH's depression does not seem to be helped with his meds, I wonder if he too might actually be lacking in the proper treatment and/or meds too ?

I am very encouraged that my WH is improving with this new
treatment and is also now in counseling, but have to keep
reminding myself that it's going to be a long road and still
may not mean we'll end up back together. I'm trying to be
very patient, not expect too much, and take it a "day at a
time". My IC was helpful this week, in reminding me that WH
is not only still in some A "fog", but has new meds which
are altering his brain chemicals, doesn't sleep well so is
tired, has just started counseling which is an adjustment,
and has the legal situation adding stress to it all (got
a DUI at Christmas) ! She suggests I take it "easy",
not push him, not give too much myself, be supportive but not overly so or enabling (a tough line), keep doing my own
things, keep using some of the "180" methods, and just see
how things go-

I know you are probably feeling very strange (and can sure
understand you feeling weird about seeing and talking to him
now) but remember you have the advantage of knowing what he
is up too and all the MB to utilize-- and he and OW don't !!
Thinking of you-
Slammed

Milk, Slammed.
Thank you both. We seem to be having a tough week milk. Slammed, glad to hear there are some improvemets happening with your situation.


I just heard form WH. I am not a good actress. I tried. Well, he called to say he was busy this weekend after all, and would not be able to make it to the movie. When he called earlier in the week, he said he was free and could make it any time.

I am working from home today. He commented on that, and asked if I was downstairs in the den working and if the cats were keeping me company. I tried to be as casual as I could be but talking to him I think I just experienced hate. Love and hate they are just too close. He is talking to me like we are buddies, old pals. I am sick to my stomich.

I think him canceling on the movie is a good thing. It must be God's sign to me that I am not ready to deal with him.

I wish I had someone to talk to about this. But my best friend is in India right now. This is so frastrating. I need to really deal with my emotions. It keeps going up and down. Sometimes I feel like doing something to hurt him like he hurt me, but don't worry guys, I know that is not the answer. What he is doing, just hurts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.


Daisy

Ok,
WH (I got so used to writing H <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />)....WH just called and wants to get together tomorrow afternoon.

What is God's sign?

I am confused... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

What are you gonna do daisy?

I sense that he is starting to see you becoming more independent and his insecuity is making him starting to take some initiative to make sure that he still has you waiting in the wings for him.
Maybe the 180 thing is in order... where is that 180 thread again...
about cutting calls short, accepting only a few meetings turning other ones down... etc.

Maybe a more seasoned person can chime in here...

I love 180 - here you go...

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from their family members to convince them they are making a big mistake
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,
etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start
the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have
had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you
are going to move on with your life, with or without
your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull
back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more
important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show
your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him
someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which
may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you
want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &
focus on all the other parts of your life that are not
in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any
words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you
are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with
your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than
50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in
absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad
you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

stu.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I don't think he thinks anything like that. He is in his fog <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. Let him enjoy it.

I agreed to go to the movie. But that excitement that I felt on Tuesday when he called me about it is gone. I am going, mostly to see how I can handle being next to him, talking to him, etc. I need to know if I have any feelings left for him. I am kind of confused <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. I certainly will not tell him I know about the A. I don't know what my plan is. (deleted) Maybe after tomorrow I'll know.

As far as 180. Well, I was thinking about it the last 2 weeks. I have the books DivorceBusting and some others on 180s. Right now I can do a 180 standing on my head <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, because I don't have any desire to do any of the "DON'Ts"!

I just went to the see Tristan and Isolde on my own. I was the only one in the theater. It was funny cause I was late and I tried to be so quiet sneeking in just to realize there was noone else there! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.

It is a nice movie. 2 months ago, I could not watch a romance. Now it was a nice change from all that action I was watching.

Stu, how is it going with you. I don't see your thread around.....I'll need to look for it again. Have you contacted your wife recently? Have you heard from her?

BTW, I don't think I can do what you suggested with the key logger. I don't feel right doing it. But thank you for telling me about it.

Best to you....hang in there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Alison,
Thank you for the list.

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore! [color:"red"] No way! [/color]
2. No frequent phone calls [color:"red"] Oh, no.[/color]
3. Do not point out good points in marriage [color:"red"] we are past that [/color]
4. Do not follow him around the house [color:"red"] he does not live here [/color]
5. Do not encourage talk about the future [color:"red"] past that [/color]
6. Do not ask for help from their family members to convince them they are making a big mistake [color:"red"] his family is deffinately on his side [/color]
7. Do not ask for reassurances [color:"red"] I don't need any from him anymore [/color]
8. Do not buy gifts [color:"red"] This, I will stop now! [/color]
9. Do not schedule dates together [color:"red"] I will keep this in mind (don't see me scheduling anything right now) [/color]
10. Do not spy on spouse [color:"blue"] alisson, this is the one I have trouble with! But I'll try [/color]
11. Do not say "I Love You" [color:"red"] He will not hear this from me unless he is back in the R[/color]
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life [color:"red"] I am moving on baby! [/color]
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive [color:"red"] trying [/color]
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,
etc. [color:"red"] I am working on this [/color]
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start
the conversation) be scarce or short on words [color:"red"] NA [/color]
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING [color:"red"] NA [/color]
17. You need to make your partner think that you have
had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you
are going to move on with your life, with or without
your spouse [color:"red"] I have had an awakening! And I really don't care if he sees it or not [/color]
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull
back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more
important, realize what he will be missing [color:"red"] We'll see how this one goes tomorrow. I don't want to be angry.... [/color]
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show
your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him
someone he would want to be around. [color:"red"] I hope I can feel good tomorrow as I do today [/color]
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which
may be a while) [color:"red"] He can bring this up, I will not [/color]
21. Never lose your cool [color:"red"] hmmmmm [/color]
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic [color:"red"] good point [/color]
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger) [color:"red"] not going there! [/color]
24. Be patient [color:"red"] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> [/color]
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you [color:"red"] he does not say much [/color]
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you
want to speak out [color:"red"] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &
focus on all the other parts of your life that are not
in turmoil) [color:"green"] This is the most important one....I've had trouble with it [/color]
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly [color:"red"] check [/color]
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any
words you can say or write [color:"red"] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> [/color]
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you
are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy [color:"red"] I actually don't fee needy [/color]
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with
your spouse [color:"red"] ok [/color]
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than
50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in
absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared [color:"red"] oh, yes, it is babble [/color]
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad
you feel [color:"red"] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> [/color]
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes [color:"red"] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

Daisy

Daisy,
I haven't been too active cuz nothing much has happened to me. So I've been over on the enneagram thread (In Recovery forum). Quite interesting stuff. I don't quite know if it's gonna help my cause but it's keeping my mind busy.

Last couple of weeks: I emailed her a "hello" email saying I saw some marine life, thought she might enjoy it so I took a picture and sent it. And just a brief sentence about what I've been learning about the world of wine. She didn't respond.

Then I emailed her about our tax sitch from last year (a little mix up) she emailed be back about that saying if I needed her signature on something I could forge it or wait until end of January. I responded that I won't forge it, I'll just wait, and asked when she was coming back... no response.
That was the last contact ~ 1wk ago

stu....
You are taking this really well I think. When I was in your shoes, not hearing from my WH for a week was torture. Today I feel that if I don't hear from him, it might be all for the best.

I guess I still have feelings for him because I am unable to just cut all contact even though I really don't want to see him. Confusing isn't it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. But on some level, as strage as it sounds, it is all more clear than it was before.

Are you going to contact your W again, or are you just going to wait till the end of January? Do you know where she is? What is happening with your D? I see it is pending (sorry, I don't know much about this, so what does that mean exactly). I figure you are waiting, but for what? I wish I could just wake up a year from now. I don't want to deal with any of this stuff.

You know, I cannot believe my WH is out there having his A and still taking advantage of me with the Immigration papers. If I wanted to, I could call immigration and his application for residency would be over! He can stay here now as a student, but in a year he would have to renew. As is, he is basically using me to get residency now.

He is so taking advantage of me. He knows I am a decent person and would never cancle the application. That is what gets to me in all this. I am the decent one and I am getting scrood, big time. And he thinks he is getting away with it. I really hope one day he sees what he did and feels some shame.

take care stu.....

I'll go over and check the thread on the recovery board over the weekend. Sounds interesting....

Daisy

I am feeling sort of ok today. I am meeting my WH in an hour. I don't know how it will go. One thing I keep telling myself is that I know something he thinks I don't. So we both have our secret.

I was not sure if I should dress nice or not. I went with looking good. It will help me feel good and keep up the facade. I had another stupid dream about WH. I asked him if he had an A, and he admited it. I guess my brain is working over time. I cannot even get a break in my sleep.

I hope I do ok. I don't want him to think anything is up.

I keep wondering if I ever even knew him.

I am off....

Daisy

I watched the cats playing this morning and for the first time in days I got tears in my eyes. They are his cats, he always loved watching them play. Now, I cannot call him to come look at them, or even share this with him.....

I don't know how I got through the meeting with WH yesterday. I got to his house, he was not there. Came walking up the street late. I felt sick when I saw him, but kept it together. We drove to the movies, talked here and there. I mentioned a movie I saw the night before we a friend. The movie turned out to be one that H and I borrowed earlier but never finished. He then mentioned another movie that we supposedly saw together but did not finish. It did not ring a bell at all. He kept describing it to me, but I had no recollection of it at all. I said "you must have seen it with someone else". He said, no it was with you, a bit ticked off.

I was glad we went to see a movie, so we did not have to talk much and I did not have to look at him much. He was his usual self and it just made me sick to my stomach to see the charade that I was now participating in. He was charming, and nice, and fun. The movie was all about secrets and affairs and we talked about it afterwards and he was asking me if I thought the wife knew what was going on, and I said "yes, you cannot keep things like this hidden forever". I was so cool, I know he has no idea that I know. He sees me as this pathetic weak girl that would break down if she knew anything, and definitely would not be able to hang out with him and throw comments like that around. I bet he is thinking, "well you don't know what is going on". Really, I wish I could hurt him back.

It has finally hit me. I am just sitting here crying, cause I cannot believe this is happening. I cannot understand how he can sit in my car and tell me he has trouble sleeping and tell me about his dreams, and then ask me to take him to work (again, all sweat and all) but swing by his house first so he can get his work close, all while he is having his A. I don't get this.

My mind is working over time trying to come up with some rational explanation for that email, just so I don't have to accept what an lying a$$ he is.

On top of it all the way he looked at me was the way he always did. He looked at me like that every time he wanted me. Was it all a lie.

Right now I don't want to see him or even speak with him. I realized I still love him. I don't know how he can sleep at night (right, he is not!). He looked really awful. I've never seen him look so bad and he usually looks tired anyway. But, it was almost 1 in the afternoon and he really looked the worse that I ever seen him. I believe he is not sleeping, cause he did look like a zombie. If I did not know what is going on, I would have been concerned about him, but I don't give a dam at all. I did not even mention it.

When I got him to work, he just kept on talking and would not leave. I just wanted him out of my car. I was so close to just asking him to get out.

I am so disgusted with him. I just want him out of my life. That is how I feel right now anyway. I cannot trust that face. It was so creepy to watch, and realize that his demeanor towards me is the same that it was all along. That if I did not know any better, I would have thought he was attracted to me still, and still had some feelings, but as is he is just a fake<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />.

Daisy

What are your plans now? It seems to me you should let him know that you know he is cheating.

What country is he from?

believer....

I don't have a plan. I know that I don't want to see him right now.

(deleted)

I suspect he would tell me now that it is all non of my business because we are just friends, we are over, and he can do what he likes. I think I will quitely gother evidence, but because it is so painful to watch him, I will limit my contact with him.

At least that is what I am thinking right now.

We moved to Canada from US. I am here on a work visa, he on student, and via work I can get residency and so can my partner.

Daisy