Steve H is dead on about that. The problem with those kind of people is that they "change" and "do" things as often other people may change underwear (fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your view)....that is not a good thing. His ltter smacks of manipulation and a change of "feeling" for today !!! HIs comment about dropping out of school and "reading" all day says alot...that was the most profound thing he said. He told you alot with that comment.

LM

LEM!

WOW! first respond I ever got from you here....

Thank you.....

I am looking for honest opinions on this.....I am not as vulnarable to him as I once was. I still hurt, but I don't want to put myself in a position where he will do this to me again.


I tell you I read that part about him quiting school...and I thought, no surprise there. He quit the MA in history last year, he quit the Latin/Greek studies the year before, so this new idea of an MA in philosophy did not strike me as being any different.......

It really is sad to read. I mean who would not love to spend all day reading??? I sure would. Yet, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I never required that he have a Ph.D. but at least an understanding that a man ought to provide for his family along with me.


Yes, it might be a first step.....but it might be nothing again......how do I find out???? I am afraid if I go forth and meet him he will just use me again......

Daisy

I agree with Lem. I would hate to see you get used again. He just isn't clear WD, and he's clearly lost looking for the attention he once got from you, but likely not in a good sound way. He's sending you too many mixed messages. I can see why he thinks you think he is contradictory...because he is. I'm sorry, I hope his letter doesn't bring you down. You've been doing well.

Lady

If I had that definitve answer I would hang up the scrubs, write a book, conduct seminars, and develop a web site (but I would have a $29.95 yearly fee for viewing) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />....BUT alas I don't have the answer here....so I will keep my day job. I am sure others will have opinions for you. If it were me...I'd simply say...."F-OFF".....LOL.....but seriously...I'd just watch.....and then watch some more.....I simply believe that a man who wants something will go get it. If I were your Cheating Husband and I wanted you back and I wanted to make amends for my wrongs, I would not leave that to chance by an email. That's just me though. The fact that your WH has such tendencies to quit so many things in his life is not an endearing trait. Unfortunately, I don't think you can chalk up that character trait just to an "addcition" to an OW. It would be nice if you could. I dunno much else. Just my thouhgts.


LM

Lem,

LOL!!! thanks...I needed that!


Well, it just makes me sad reading all this. I have to say that I really had been sitting here for months imagining he has moved on and is happy and sadly this just strikes me as him being in a worse shape then me...

One positive think I can see here (and I am not sure if it really is or not) is that this is the most open and honest that he has been with me in years. But if he is really so confused is he really honest or is he just trying to manipulate me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

He has chronic depression and I know that I probably should be more understanding, but many times it just strikes me that he uses that as an excuse.....I don't know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />......

He just seems so lost to me.....and frankly his descripsion of me is yet again inflated.....

I will sit on this and think.....all I know is that I am not about to go into some lala land where he gets to "think" again about what he wants..but not take any ACTION....he has had 11 months to think......I want to seriously work on my M if possible, but not just do it cause he now momentarily feels like.....

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well, I happen to think that is a great, well reasoned, mentally HEALTHY plan you have stated above. It sounds very good. Your "getting it" now.

LM

lady.....

I think he is still confused and now that I have turned off the Daisy foscet, he feels the pain of his decision and is not happy about it.....and I am afraid he is looking to me to eliviate the pain, but I am not here to make him happy! It took me months to realize that I cannot make him happy, he has to be happy himself.

I think he has issue with the fact that I have a professional carrier and he does not. He never understood that he did not have to have one. I have friends who don't have professional carriers, it is not about that to me, I respect them becuse they take care of their kids, they do what must be done. I wanted a husband that would be a contiributing member to the family unit along with me.

I don't think he is thinking along those lines......

Do not overlook his mindset with those comments. He is telling you upfront he is the same person. If you decide to give it another chance and he leaves again, then he would be able to say to you,"I told you I was the same person I always was".

As I tell people on here so very often, the WS doesn't come back UNTIL they feel you have let go. Once again my theory proves correct. (No plan B was implemented as far as I know)

If you read my signature line to reconcile you may see that you are letting him see all of the key ingredients that get a WS to WANT to come back.

They are..
confidence, self esteem, self respect,(becasue you let him go, no pressure,(the number 1 key)and he views you as happy JUST the way things are in your life....(keys to reconcile)

PRESTO... He now misses you and is viewing you as strong, and even somewhat desireable once again.


This is ALL because you finally LET HIM GO AND LEFT HIM ALONE TO HIS OWN THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS WITH NO PRESSURE.



HHHMMMMMM, who usually is saying things like this during a relationship breakup?

ANSWER: The BS. He is thinking the same thoughts and feelings that a BS goes through after D-Day. This is good. This is what you WANT him to be thinking. This is AGAIN because YOU LET HIM GO. Absence of pressure is very interesting in that it works like magic. The more you pressure them, the farther away they pull. Even the SLIGHTEST of pressure works against the BS. However, when there is absolutely NO PRESSURE on the WS, and you show self respect and confidence by letting them go, if that is what they tell you they really want to do, then the lack of pressure works FOR you. It actually works like a suction for you and suddenly they are not so sure they have done the right thing.(sounds just like what he IS feeling doesn't it?)

Now, the BIG question you are probably asking is... "What do I do now"

Here is what I would suggest.

Since leaving him alone is working so well, then why not leave him wondering this..

1) Did you get his email?
2) Let him wonder WHEN or IF you are going to resond.
(in other words let HIM check his email 100 times a day in anticipation of your answer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />(anybody else out here ever done that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
3)Let him wonder what YOU are going to say NOW that he is starting to miss you and may be somewhat hurt) (He needs some more missing and hurt though before you make ANY forward moves)
4) Is she seeing someone and is that the reason she hasn't responded) (let him wonder that for awhile, and trust me, HE WILL if you wait awhile to respond.
5)Maybe I should email her AGAIN (if you haven't responded quickly)(remember doing that yourself and how it feels?)

Those are only a few reasons to wait. Be patient.
Wait it out for a week or so. I encourage you to let him wait you out. It also REALLY gives you time to think about what YOU want now that you are starting to feel good about yourself more and more. The big mistake that far too many people on here make that doesn't get enough attention, is not giving the WS LOTS OF SPACE AND ALONE TIME when separated. As his letter points out, this time alone has given him time to reflect (thanks again to no pressure from you finally) The next quote from his points out that the time alone has been good for him and he is reflecting and is now following HIS INTERESTS (that is NOT ALL bad)and what those interests are. I don't view it as a negative. School does become routine at times and maybe this IS best for him and for YOU. Notice that at the end of the next quote he asks YOU if you think it is absurd. That sounds like a man unsure of what YOU think of him.(which again is a good place for YOU to be right now because that is the start of romantic feelings is when one wonders what the other person is thinking about them)



I would not make ONE decision right now on this. I would let it ride out for a week and then at the end of that week or so, I would re-evaluate MY feelings. It is time for you to be a little selfish here. It will do you good and do him even better.

Good luck.... You will be just fine with or without him. I GUARANTEE it...

keepmovingforward.....

I have noticed that you always say that letting go is the key......


I guess, letting go is so hard, that we don't see it as the key.

I did not send a Plan B letter. I regretted it later. I just finally reached a point where I could not participate. And I really thought him discussing his date at my dining room table with my other guests was so disrespectful I had enough.

It took a long time to let go, but I finally did it, because it was the right thing for me to do.


I don't have any intentions to reply any time soon. I really do have to think about this. What is he saying exactly. There is a lot there to digest. And then what do I want. I do think it is a good sign that he is being open about his feelings. We did not do to well on this front. We just always figured it would fix itself, and we were both guilty of that. I do have a tendency to think things out first, and I take my time before I approach a subjest and he would accuse me of being secretive and not sharing my feelings. I have been thinking a lot about that......

In any case, I appreciate your post. I think there are good signs there.....but still some sort of fog talk.....

I am still in shock.....he has really been so adament about not working on us.....Even when I told him I no longer wish to keep in constact with him, he yet again told me he did not want to get back together, and said it like 4 different ways. This was just 6 weeks ago!

It has been a crazy night....

Daisy

hey daisy

i'm gonna pretend that i actually have a clue about any of this and give my opinion....

maybe he has been thinking about you all this time......and he misses you....he misses what you had together....he's wondering if this was all a mistake...he's wondering if the two of you COULD restore your marriage....but he's being cautious...he isn't ready to make any promises just yet....he's so confused that his feelings he was so sure about are now so much in doubt.....he's scared

isn't this how you are feeling too?

Eav.....

You are so funny! I keep giving you advice....what do I know?

I do think you are right....He is scared....I am too. As much as I have been sitting here thinking for months, why will he not give us a chance, I did have times when I would think, maybe we cannot make it, maybe we'll put each other through more pain.

The thing that I realize is, that my M did not have any chance of recovery, until I got stronger. I still don't know if I am strong enough to handle this. I don't know if I am at a place where I am strong enough to do the work to recover this....not only to deal with the issues we always had, but this 1 year. This 1 year has been hard.

Best,
Daisy

I found this to be interesting. Is RESPECT an issue with him? This fits with the theory behind the book LOVE AND RESPECT that I just read that was so eye-opening for me.

I agree with Keepmvn. I also would add that this is a perfect example of how the process of PLAN B works although you didn't write a PLAN B letter. He has definitely begun to MISS YOU due to your DARKNESS and he is beginning to SUFFER FROM HIS LOSS. Another way of looking at Keep's suggestion is that you want him to SUFFER some more and to begin to PURSUE you. He will....

I wouldn't describe his letter as manipulative. I sincerely didn't get that impression about it. I think he is missing you and pursuing you. How else would he let you know that?

Of course, your response, IMO, should be again..if you choose to respond..I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEND, I WANT TO BE YOUR WIFE...

However, keep in mind, I've learned during our Recovery, that an significant part of my relationship with my H is OUR FRIENDSHIP. This was true while we were courting/dating and over the years that was lost. I forgot how important my presence was to him..sharing conversation (an emotional need) and affection as we sit side by side-sometimes I sit in his lap (an emotional need). I see your WH missing your FRIENDSHIP and that is not a BAD THING.

The essential KEY to be ADDED is his COMMITMENT to a MARRIAGE. Of course, you will be OK with him or not. However, you know my standard opinion. This is your HUSBAND..AND YOUR MARRIAGE...You committed to him FOR LIFE in a SACRED COVENANT...so I definitely would support your working on this with him ...if you choose to do so and if he chooses to do so...it may take a period of NEGOTIATION...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mimi.....

Thank you for your words....I do know your stands on this, and a lot you said to me 2 months ago has gotten through <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

We were good friends, and I think that is why he wanted to continue that. I could not be "just" a friends, I never was just a friend to him. I do miss our friendship, but I don't want just that. I think my NC was really eye opening <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />to him. I meant it when I said, no just friends here!

Respect. When I first read that, I thought of you and the discussion on hurting's thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. It is interesting how it does come to that for a lot of man. I was going to ask you for the book title, so thank you!! I'll have a look into that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think respect is important to him. I did not realize at the time that by me wanting him to do many things differently that I in many ways showed him that I did not respect him. I figured I was right, but I was not. If I don't want to be with him, then I should not be with him, I should not try to change him! I know that I can respect a man that works for a living and provides for his family as necessary. I guess i have learned that I cannot respect a man that chooses not to do that (since, then I want to change him). I have some thinking to do on this, but I think I would definately need to talk to him to know more about where he stands on this.

Mimi, I think he still has a lot to figure out himself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. At one point last year after he found his dishwashing job, he was telling me about the job, and he kind of looked at me and said that 'one day I'll have to figure out why I always pick these dead-end jobs'. So, I really would like to know what he has come up with as an answer. I would like to understand him better. In the least, it would help me with my decision.

On some level, what bothered me about H, was that while he did not want to work, he spend money without any thought, and did not want to budget with me at all. I never made any point about 'my money, your money'...to me it was our money, but I never would just go and spend it without thinking about being able to pay the bills first, while he did do that. I do hope this year on his own has opened his eyes a little. We'll have to see.....


In my one email to H, after he wanted to just hang, I told him that I made a commitement for life and I hurt at the loss of something that became fundamental to me as a person and altered me to the core, and that I continue to feel that loss. So, yes, mimi, I made a commitment, and I would not be able to live with myself if I just let this go. However, I need some time to organize my thoughts and get a plan together on how to procede. I am not going in blind <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

I saw a great post yesterday by Mr. Wondering where in he said
"form and execute your plan, accept uncertainty, and let the chips fall where they may".

Well, I want to form and execute my plan as best as I can, that is all I can do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />