Hi Bigger
We agreed to back the lawyers off, XWBF wanted to do this, he is as tight as a fishes bottom and will save money if he can, and I don't think his business has been going that well the last 6 months.

Personally I think the delay is due XWBF coming to terms with the fact that we will be going. It is the final step in the process of this whole affair.

I have decided to give him until Sunday, if it isn't sorted on Sunday I will ask direct questions as to why and will advise him that I will be contacting my lawyer to start things up again.

As another back up plan, I have an interview on Monday with Microsoft for another contract role, just in case things are not sorted out, I won't be in the UK without an income.

So that is my plan...let's see what unfolds!

NZGirl,

I can't believe that nobody has commentted on your offer to "let XBF visit her in NZ whenever he wants". You've got to be kidding! This child needs two parents - and she needs to see both of them frequently - weekly at least. Of course, nobody is going to fly back and forth between UK and NZ on a weekly basis - or even from AU to NZ on a weekly basis. The offer to "visit her in NZ" is essentially worthless to the child and to the father.

Yes, you are the one posting here, and XBF is not - and I can even accept that he is the "bad guy" in all this, but still he is her father - and taking the child out of the country might be, as his lawyer suggested, a crime (in the eyes of the law). But whether or not it is a crime in the eyes of the law, it almost certainly is not in the best interest of the child to be moved to such an inconvenient distance from her father.

I assume the child was born in UK?

By international treaty (UN treaty re child abduction, to which I'm pretty sure UK is a signatory), a child is not supposed to be transported out of any country without agreement of both parents. The child will require a passport, which probably cannot be obtained without the signature of both parents.

That you "never intended to settle in UK and always planned to return to NZ", really does not have any bearing on all this.

Can you get the XBF to come here and tell us his side of the story?

-AD

I haven't posted for a while, didn't really know how to respond to AD's post, and am still at a loss as to what to say except that affairs, separation and children are not a good combination for all involved, and one does what they think is best.

An update - XWBF still hasn't produced signed papers, I have put the hard word on him to get this done. The hold up from him has been to get someone to witness it, he doesn't want to use anyone from work as he dosn't want them to know his business. He is getting his best friend to witness for him, who is busy with study at the moment. Today he was meant to meet him and get this done, but it didn't happen. I have taken the step of contacting his best friend and asked him to assist in getting this done by Sunday, he said he was willing, but XWBF has only just contacted him about it, and he advised him where he would be today to get it done but XWBF never made contact later today to make it happen. I am hoping that now this will be done. I have advised XWBF that I will contact my lawyer if this doesn't happen by Sunday. He said he will get it done tomorrow. My lawyer has advised me to not make any arrangements until I have received the signed papers.

I mentioned that I had an interview with Microsoft earlier this week as a backup plan, well they have offered me a 6 month contract starting 3 Jan 06. As things are standing now, I think I may take it. DD will be in daycare next door to their offices, and I can have lunch with her every day if I want to, or spend time with her during my lunch break. Taking the job, will mean that we will probably have to move, the commute is about 50 minutes each way from where we currently live on public transport. The down side of this is that DD will be further away from her Father, but at least not on the other side of the world for the next 6 months anyway! So that is how things are right now. I am hoping that things will be sorted, re the signed papers with the right to return to NZ when desired, financial proposals, and future contact.

I think that would be an excellent plan. It is good for your daughter to see her father. I would still get the legal stuff signed, though.

Who knows? Maybe the affair will end in the next 6 months.

Yes DD is really starting to bond with her Father for the very first time. I haven't let XWBF know that I have another job offer, I want to keep the pressure on him to get the papers signed.

NZG,

Thanks for your gracious response (sp?) to my post.

Lots of people have asked something like "Why do I have to be the one who has to do the right thing - while the other guy get's to do whatever he wants". I don't know. It is painful to think of your situation - and your DD's situation. I feel sad for the kids ...

All any of us can do is just do our best and see what happens. Usually, that involves suffering. It's not fair.

I'm a Dad.

When my XW moved out the first time, our daughter was 6 months old. It was the darkest hour of my life. It was very very hard to be separated from my child. I don't understand why a man would do that voluntarily - except that now, I have do so myself. Our daughter is 5 now, and I'm officially the one who instigated the divorce (because XW's affair didn't end). I see my daughter often and she spends about a third of her nights at my house, but I miss her when she's not here.

I just hate for even clueless dads to get separated from their children.

-AD

AD--sorry for the TJ, but I had to say "Hi."

t&l

Hi back to you T&L.

I'm sleeping now, really I am. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm going to work in 6 hours.

-AD

AD
I picked up from your posting that you were a Dad, but you seem to be a committed Dad which is a good thing for your DD. I struggle to understand why a Dad would voluntarily separate from his DD also, especially without trying every possible avenue to see it things could be worked out between XWBF and Me. That I guess has been the hardest thing to accept, and I fought this for a long time.

I don't want to mislead you, I will be eventually leaving the UK and returning to NZ, it is a matter of time. In the meantime DD and XWBF get to spend some more time together which is good. It will be hard to leave when we eventually do go, for all of us, I am not denying that, it is a day I am not looking forward to.

NZ,

I have been debating answering AD’s post. Decided not to directly answer his post since that would be a TJ but I will tell you my view: You are doing a great job in a dreadful situation.

Yes – it would be great to have both parents living together in a loving relationship. Second best would be to have both parents close by in a good relationship. Equally important is that the child is given the best environment possible. Somehow I think NZ would offer you a lot more in that department. London is exiting, but also large, dirty and expensive. In NZ you have cheaper housing and that means less time for work and more for child. You also have your family and that is important for DD.

AD could just as equally wonder why XBF does not emigrate to NZ to be around his DD. You are not denying him access to DD. What if XBF goes back to Australia? Are you morally obligated to move with him?

No – you do what is best for YOU and DD. XBF has to respond to that according to his morals and needs. As long as your decision is based on this and no revenge then you are doing fine.

Staying for 6 months is basically your choice. No matter what get the custody issues through now.

Bigger

Thanks for your post, I appreciate them. You have the ability to make things very clear. I have spent the most part of the last week thinking about my motives to return to NZ, and they are not vindictive or revenge based. They are for what I can see is giving DD the best I can offer as far as lifestyle, opportunities, and Me. You are right when you say XBF does have the option of emigrating to NZ if he wanted to, those are his choices and I am doing the best with what I have to deal with.

I am focussing on getting the permission to leave the UK on a permanent basis with DD signed, I have not told XBF about the new job and have rightly or wrongly kept up the pretence of going back to NZ these last few days. For me this needs to be sort now or later, and I prefer to get this sorted now than later. XBF has promised to get this done by Sunday, and I have tried to progress this by making sure that his required signature witness (his best friend in London) is available and knows the importance of getting this sorted asap. Sunday is his D day, otherwise I will get my lawyer on the case.

NZGirl, I hope you get all the permission you need. I read AD's post and found myself bristling at it. Eventually, I realized that we have different perspectives on the dad thing. AD is a BS who has separated from his children. I am a BS whose WH has very little to do with his children.

Today, I was working in a elementary school classroom where several 6 year olds were making the agonizing choice about which parent to give the one Christmas gift they made in school to. I'm really happy that our family was intact when my kids were that age. Children often feel so divided. Is that good for them either?

I'm going to be a horrible, politically incorrect person and put forth a few scenarios. (And I'm sure there are more.) How NZ's relationship fits in, would make a big difference in what I would recommend.

A: Mom and Dad have a "friendly divorce" and share the kids well. They share 50-50 custody, attend their kids' events together and each plays an active part in their children's life.

I think this is very nice situation. However, I only know 1 family that really fits it. If I truly had this situation where there was such equal parenting, I wouldn't remove the child from the situation.

B: Dad is a concerned but part time parent. He intends to make a lifelong commitment towards his child.

Time to think carefully about moving.

C: Dad is a part time parent but has many other things, like a new relationship on his plate. He may or may not make a lifelong commitment. The involved members live in
an expensive city with no local family or roots. Neither has any commitment to live there long-term. Personally, I wouldn't want to raise a child in London.

In a transient situation like this, I'd lean towards moving.
Especially, if I was going to a place near both parents' family homes, is cheaper and more child-friendly.

Do I think it's important for a child to have both parents? Sure. Do I think a kid should be a ping pong ball? No. Having a stable parent is important. If that child and parent is supported by a strong family, the child will thrive. Even if the other parent isn't as involved. Perhaps that sounds biazed but I think kids do best when they have family around them. It's better than a frazzled, unsupported mom and a dad who chips in occasionally. Could be either parent. I know people who were raised by their fathers and an extended family but without an active mother and they've turned out just fine.

We live in a very small world these days. New Zealand is no longer that far away. My DD and her friend in Australia have found a time when both of them are available to IM, despite a 17 hour time difference. There's almost instanteous emails and photos. Communication is easy. NZ's BF's family is not that far away. There is no indication he will settle in England anyway. He could be as good and as involved a father as he would want to be. JMVHO.

GG - thanks for your post, just got to do what is best, XWBF told me the other day that he isn't here forever either and will return to Aust, so if we did stay, eventually we would be here by ourselves. I am staying to my plan of doing what is best for DD and Myself.

An update, have got all the papers signed, permission to leave the UK permanently with DD at anytime is signed sealed and delivered...phew that is a relief. Contact plans for in the Uk and when back in NZ sorted also.

I have accepted the 6 month contract from Microsoft so we will be staying in the UK a bit longer for now anyway. XWBF is aware of this.

The funny thing is that the last 2 Sunday's he has had the ability to have 4 hours of time with DD by himself, but has asked me to join them, I asked him are you sure? Yes he said, I say - it's your time with DD why do you want me to join you? Because I would like you to! What is this about I ask myself!

Anyway, finally all the legal stuff is sorted which is a relief.

I would like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, your support and advice has been fantastic. Have a great Christmas and New Year.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Fantastic news!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'm very happy for you! I'm glad that you and XWBF were able to work out an agreement. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



If I may be so bold; I have an interpetation for you. I think he has finally come to terms with the fact that you can now leave at any time. This makes any remaining time he has much more precious to him. He is hoping to create a few happy family memories before you go.

Stay Strong!

bumping for Orchid, Bigger and the rest who posted so you know that things have been signed sealed and delivered. Thanks for your help

NZ,

I read your update and it put a smile on my face.

You have come such a long way! So far away from your family and support circle. Alone with a toddler in a big city. Having to cope with the betrayal, the legal issues and all the uncertainty.

Where are you now? Free to go where and when you please and secure with finances and work for the next 6 months. Microsoft is picky in hiring and they wouldn’t offer you a contract if you didn’t have something special.

I don’t know how things will go with XBF. Frankly – you deserve better but that’s just the view of someone sitting on the sidelines that doesn’t have a clue about your “good” history – only the bad. I just hope the two of you reach terms that are beneficial for DD. Just being able to talk without anger is a good step.

I want to wish you and your daughter a very special and happy Christmas. I hope that when you put her to sleep on Christmas Evening you give yourself the time to look at her and find the joy you deserve for the progress you have made in what has truly been a hard year. Remember all you need is in that room.

Bigger - thanks again for your support, when I look back we have certainly come a long way. From being a nervous reck, not sleeping, not knowing what the future would hold and how I would cope with being a lone parent.

Life is panning out now, and I see my future without XWBF. I count myself as being very lucky that I have lovely DD who brings a smile to my face all the time. The joy of being a parent is wonderful and very hard to describe, I can't imagine life without her.

I wish you a Merry Christmas and wonderful New Year and thanks once again.

Oh, that is excellent news. I had pictures of you fleeing with daughter hidden under your coat, and the police chasing you. What a relief!

Thankfully, that won't be necessary.

Forgot to mention DD NZ citizenship and NZ passport arrived last week, so no hold ups as far as returing to NZ, it is just a matter of when we want to go now!

NZ Girl;

Glad to see your crisis has been averted and you have the security of knowing you can do as you choose in the best interests of you and daughter. I am also glad you are staying for 6 more months to enjoy more of London's beautiful rainy winter weather and you have to miss out on summer in New Zealand. lol. Regardless...6 more months of xBF bonding with DD, albeit limited, may assist him feeling more connected to you and DD so he will be a better father and possible supporting co-parent to you regardless the outcome of your relationship. Who knows what the future holds...I believe you are not holding out hope for you and xBF (maybe you are...doesn't matter) but he may wake up to the huge mistake he made and become a better/respectable person because of it. Stranger things have happened. Whatever happens you guys will always have a connection...it can be a good connection even if only ends up becoming just friends.

Good luck to you. Merry Christmas and a peaceful New Year.

Mr. Wondering