UVA I am very serious in saving this M. I want as much in put as i can get. Yuou say I need to change my approach How do i do this when everything I do even if its right or wrong she goes off on me. She is a great manipulator and I want to get her back. I do need to work on plan A. I have been trying to meet her needs, but how when a person has just shut you down. She barely calls anymore. I tried to let her know I want to to take DD sat and sun she tells me no I dont want to be away from her for that long. I said I would like to take her for the weekend and ofcourse she thinks its bad that im trying to discuss this with her at our xmas party. The OM I suspect is at another party in the same building and hes at our party and WW is talking to him and totally ignoring me. I can see what is going on. I ask her to talk to me about DD. I would like to take her sat and sun I have been sick i try to get her 3-4 days a week. WW wants to take her sunday. I seem to get sucked into her all the time. Uva help me with the approach i should take.

First, you have to protect yourself and your daughter. Since you have been served, you need to see a lawyer ASAP. On Monday, I would suggest you get a lawyer to look over your case because you need to answer her complaint in a timely manner. The lawyer can also tell you what you need to do to get custody of your DD in your state.

Getting custody of your DD would increase your chances of saving your M. Thus, you must do everything in your power to do so. This includes having a journal reflecting the time you spend with your DD and the things you do with her. You also want to make sure that you note on the journal your WW’s A and what is going with it.

You therefore need to verify the A with OM. Since you seem not to have the time to investigate and the fact that she is already leery of you following her, I would suggest that you hire a PI to get the proof needed to confront her and, more importantly, to present in court when the time is ripe.

You also need to change your interaction with her since she is totally in control of what is going in. You need to try to regain control. Plan A is about trying to meet the WS’s needs and exposing the A. You need to expose this A as soon as you find the proof. This is why you need to get going on that front ASAP.

Meeting your WW’s needs is not about being a doormat, agreeing to everything she wants. You will need to develop some backbone in dealing with your WW. I would start by stopping to discuss separation or divorce with her. When she broaches the subject, tell her that you are only about marriage and don’t want to discuss this with her. If she wants to discuss separation or divorce, she can contact your lawyer. You need to be a broken record on this point. This is one of the reasons you need to get a lawyer ASAP.

Further, be sure to have a set schedule for when each of you has your DD. You cannot leave it at her whim. Since you don’t want to enable her A, you don’t want to babysit for her whenever she goes on a date with OM. The clearer you are of this schedule, the better you can manage this situation.

Please read Gramm’s thread. I find his situation similar to yours and believe you can learn a lot from the advices given to him. Read on Plan A and Plan B. I suspect you will need to go to Plan B in the not distant future.

Best

UVA thank you for replying.
I had an interesting talk with WW yesterday and I did some LB about her affairs and all she could say is thats all you worry about and im not dating anyone and get over it plus MI has no fault law so what I do doesn't matte. I simply explained I am responsible for my failures by not meeting her EN and she is responsible for her A's. Later I told her I was taking DD to chuky cheese and asked if she would like to come and she replied I will see after work. I talk to her later and she did meet us up there. I noticed a mark on her neck and I jokingly said you have a hicky and she says no its some sort of issue a bump under her skin and she said its been there for a week and it wont go away so she was picking at it. I told her let me look at it again and I kissed it and said if my lips fall off then you will know its deadly. My sense of humor. We had fun with DD but I could tell somthing was wrong with WW almost like she was sad or full of guilt. She sure liked me paying attention to her neck. She has always let me know when shes not feeling good and wants my sympathy. When the night was over with I gave her a hug. I gave her several hugs in the resturant. Not to bad.

FM,

Not too bad of night I would say. You still need to get a PI to see if there is an A, as I suspect. You need to know what is going on. You cannot take her at her word right now nor can you rely on what you think might be the case. You need to KNOW what is the case. Hence, your need to get this investigation going. Without knowing the facts, you cannot plan or act in a way that would increase the odds of saving your M. You'd simply be shooting in the dark.

Second, since you have been served, you need to see a lawyer ASAP. You cannot make it easy for her and expect to save your M at the same time. What have you done on that front?

Lastly, are you keeping a journal of your time spent with your DD?

UVA, I see the lawyer tomorrow 2500.00 dollars the last of my money from credit card and cash. My DD and i were laying bed last night and she named a little girls name I have never herd before and she went on to say they played in her bedroom. i asked DD who is her Daddy and she said OM name. This is a 3 yr old and if this married man is bringing his daughter over to my WW apt while is W is at home pregnant. This is crazy. I have to find out what his daughters name is. My concern is if she is involved in a married man that is putting my DD in harms way b/c you dont know what OM wife might do. I am also concerned b/c she is pregnant and the add stres on her I don't want anything to happen to her baby. I have a great partner that i use to work with but im getting a little concerned with him b/c he works with my WW. I don't know if he can be trusted anymore.

One other thing this Police dept I work for is very very sick and evil when it comes to officers cheating it is a bragged about thing and actually acceppted. Very very sickening.

I will be trying to do this investigation myself so I have to be carefull. My WS was so discussed at one time when people were cheating on one another and now look at her point of view what a 180.

I am going to continue my plan A and im documenting everything.

I went over last night to pick up DD and we talked for a minute and I looked at her neck and boy did she pick the heck out of it, I told her she needs to stop. She responded its not your problem I said your right I just care. WW seemed down and i offered her a foot massage she declined and I said ok I have been reading a book about massages she said OH. It seems to me she gets depressed when im around is it b/c of her guilt? Anyway I left with DD and I had to have her buzz me back in to give her my half of the money for our babysitter and I gave her a hug and told her not to freeze her nips off laughing my humor she sort of smiled and said I know its cold out.

I did ask what are we doing for Xmas and she said I should come over to her apt at 7:00am to open gifts. She also asked what size suite coat I wear. I don't know if it was somthing she wants to get me and the way she asked me was a little suprising she said I never saw that sport coat u have on and then asked what size I wear. I hope she isnt sizing me up to OM. I was pretty up beat and I did alot of smiling at her. I would like to get some more advice. I have been reading everything.

When i do confirm OM I know I have to expose it to his Wife but she is pregnant. Should I do this anynmous??

Well i have to run.

I am glad your document everything. I am also glad you are seeing a lawyer tomorrow. Be sure to go for full custody of your DD. That is the best way to wake your WW from her fantasy.

You don’t need to expose to OMW anonymously. It won’t hurt for your WW and OM to know that you plan to fight for your M. In addition, you’d want to expose to your bosses at work, her family and mutual friends after you get proof of this A.

I think you should continue on Plan A but start getting ready for Plan B. Do me a favor: please take the time to read Gramm’s thread. There is much to learn from it.

UVA,
How can get to gramm's thread?

Van.

I went and seen my lawyer today. They are bulldogs and will fight for physical custody. I have to document everything I can and gather intel on OM if A is happening. I can't afford a PI so I will have to gather my resources. Object of attack is they put a motion to stop Child support b/c I have DD 3-4 times a week and I live in the martiel home. They are also going to counter file the D with me asking for physical joint custody which I don't think my WW thought I would do b/c when i told her i have to get a lawyer the other day she replied I thought you dont have the money for one. See i think WW is thinking I was going to agree with what ever she wants. Not going to happen. the attorney does believe I have a good case b/c she left and the judge is an old timer who doesn't like infadlity. I have been trying to set up a schedule on the days we should split and my attorney agrees that going like a yoyo is not good and so does most judges.

The only down fall is I do work about 5-6 afternoon days and that could be a problem. The attorney does want some good evidence she is seeing OM.

I kind of feel a bit bad having to do this and even have to go back to jan 1 2005 when she started going out 1-2 times a week. I feel abit scared and nervous but I dont think WW is expecting me to counter file for D.

I have been continuing to do plan A which is meeting her EN especially affection by showing my concern for WW and talking to her on how her day has been going at work.

I sent the letter that I wrote and Jennifer proof read and add some stuff. I have to send the second letter in the next couple of days explaining my plan and a little care package. along with HNHN. I have a feeling WW is going to get mad b/c its not going to be her way or even easy. I think she just wanted me to agree with everything.

WW has told me that i was controlling I have never controlled her at all I did show concern when she talk to shady characters and I have never snooped into her stuff until Jan of 2005 when she had an EA unkown Pa. WW has never admitted to any wrong doing and usually tells me she can do whatever she wants b/c MI is a no fault state and that is an admission not a confession. She has even said its b/c i cant control who or what she does. Is this normal for a WW to never confess what she has done or is doing. WW has in the past especially during a fight like the one that happened at the hockey game how she said she did certain sex acts with a couple of diffrent men and then says she did not.. She also has wished me dead and told me to kill myself b/c it would make it easier. She also has told me she wanted to eat her own gun a feww times but DD is what stops her. Now this is said during angry outburst.

During this whole time since jan 2005 she has never mentioned to reconcile this M and when she said she seperated it was so she can work on the M but always told me it was over with. Isnt that nice to not let me in on the plan. Im not a vindictive person and I feel like im being one, however I know this is to protect me and DD from her immoral behavior and to possibly get her back. The attorney said during the last hour to trial he has seen complaints pulled. I hope this works and not just to get me to spend all my money and then she goes ahead and re-files. I really do want to save this M. I love her with all my heart she was such a loving person once and then the floor fell out from under us. I hope she see's the big picture. I did call her twice today and the conversation was pleasent mostly about DD and how her day at work went and she said she had a rough day working on the shifts leave days and I told her they had the right person doing them and she does her job well.

I just talk to her about 45 mins ago and she said she was leaving her Mothers house with DD. I have to confirm if she was really there and she said she would call me back so I can say good night to DD.

We are suppose to go Xmas shopping on thursday for DD and she has told me to come over on xmas morning so we can open gifts. I will make sure I don't do any LB's. I did read Gramm's thread and it sure is alot like mine, but she has withdrawn herself from me since about the end of Nov. That must of when she started to see thi OM or did she just shut the door on me. I really wish I would of documented everything since july 1 2005.


When should I start plan B is the question.
I would like some advice.

I am very happy that you went to see a lawyer. And I am even happier that they are going to go for the jugular. Believe it or not, you'd have your best chance of saving your M if you got custody of your DD. Mortarman’s story is an apt example of that. That would be the ultimate wake-up call for WW, but a good Plan B might still do the trick.

When to do Plan B? I would say hold off for now. Continue on Plan A. When the legal proceedings start taking effect, it might then be a good time to start Plan B. But for now I would be as nice as possible without agreeing to any of her legal offers or being a doormat.

So as your lawyers said, your next course of action besides documenting everything is to confirm the sleazy A she is engaged in. As soon as you confirm the A, you will need to expose it to OMW, her family, your family and mutual friends. Get ready for this next stage that should be coming up shortly.


Yep, they all do this. Unless you have proof you can take to court, they will deny, deny, and deny. That is standard MO on WSs's part.

P.s. I like your lawyers! You did good.

Van,

I will bump Gramm's thread for you tomorrow.

They are good lawyers its going to cost me. Which concerns me b/c financial stability is one of WW EN. My thoughts are it doesnt matter how much money I spend to save a family.

How do I meet her EN when we are just picking up or dropping off DD. Every morning that I have to pickk DD up I bring her a Coffee, tell her she looks great. We are going xmas shopping for DD thursday. I will give her lots of affection and be upbeat. I would love to wake up fom this nightmare. Once my WW said the same thing a while back. well I have to run.

I noticed the return address label from the xmas card WW sent me was MS. Not Mrs. What a slap in the face. its like she has moved on. Boy does this hurt. I have not said anything to WW. I was wondering if I should say somthing.

Any advice would help.

Not much to report today. WW called me today and asked if we could go shopping for DD tomorrow night b/c its snowing pretty good today. WW then said I see you got off work early I said no she replied because you sent me an email good night around 2:00am and I did send her one around this time but I got off work at 11:00pm she thought I worked 7:am to 3pm and she realized.

I find it hard to find somthing to talk about with her, I guess i have to go in my memory banks b/c we use to talk all the time.

WW asked me if I would take DD tonight which I planned on it anyways. After they have dinner at her parents for her dad and brothers b-day. I guess im not invited anymore.

I just feel so sad about this, I have always loved hanging around her family.

Some advice would be great especially the last couple of post I entered. I am continuing with my Plan A buy being nice and showing my concern for her and giving her attention.

There is not much to do with respect to interacting with her except to Plan A whenever you get the chance.

Have you confirm the A through your investigation? If not that is what you should be working on.

Also, I hope you are still documenting everything.

BTW, it might be good to start hanging out with friends and family members.

Plan B is coming soon, right after the initial legal stages. So start getting ready to give her a dose of what life will be like without you.

Don't mention the card, there is not much to be gained by bringing it up. You can't force her to be with you. You can only let her experience the full consequences of her actions, which you will do soon.

Well WW and I talked and i told her I was taking DD tonight after They went to her mothers for her father and brother B-day celebration. I was not invited i have been doing that for the last 7yrs.

I called WW to let her know I might be a little late b/c I had to drop off some equipment at home. WW tells me she does not feel good so I give her some sympathy and she was going to drop her off earlier but I had to drop off this work equipment. So she goes on to ask if I would pick her up from her mothers so she can go home early b/c she doesn't feel good. I said it doesn't matter to me and go ahead and do what u need to do. She starts to get pissed what do you mean go do what I have to do. I said so you can go home and take care of yourself. So I get to my MIL and WW has already left. I call WW to let her know I was on my way to pick DD up and I told her I care about her and I would like to take care of her while she is sick she gets mad and says i don't like when you say that. I told I love her and she replied no you dont if you did you would leave me alone and I filed for divorce. I said I understand you and I apologize for my mistakes. She gets even madder Why are you doing this I said b/c im committed to my marriage and family and I care about you she starts to cry Manipulation. I told her I love you and take care of yourself. Her Father says she wasn't feeling good and didn't sound good. She sure manipulated them, I knew exactly what was up. I drove by her apt and she wasn't home and she left at 7:40pm and I got there around 8:55 She is with him somewhere. I really could of got the proof then darn. It is hard with a 3yr old. I know she is doing this when I have her. I will have to come up with another plan.

I know I said ILY and I have not told her that for a very long time. WW sure was getting mad when I validated her feelings and I kept a calm voice and she said why are you like this.

Any advice.

I dont think I can keep doing this.

I had a friend come over and I drove by WW apt and I confirmed the OM who is married. I observed his truck in the parking lot WW car was there also and the lights where out. I wonder what he told his wife? This pain is killing me this is number 3 that I know of, I can't keep doing this to myself. My anxiety is out of control. Im a police officer and I have seen and been through so much and my WW is one also and she has been comsumed by the evil at our work place we had talked about so much in the past, how she would never do such a thing. Why is this happening my little DD is asleep in bed and is being subjected to this awful stuff. OM wife who is pregnant and has a daughter about my DD age is also in this mess. I have know idea on what to do, Im starting to fall apart again. I can't have my DD subjected to this, I don't want her to learn from this. MY WW thinks this is ok b/c she filed for D and I have been served and all I want to do is save this M. I must be crazy!!! How can I be strong when she continues this.

I really need some help.

Keep documenting everything. Next time have your friend go by himself and take pictures of OM's car in WW's parking lot so you can use them as evidence in court. A camcorder, if you can get hold of one, would be good too.

Go see your doctor and have him put you on ADs. That is how many BSs deal with the wrecking carnage caused by an A. They may help you cope with this.

Tomorrow, expose the A to OMW, WW's family, your family, and mutual friends. You may want to let your supervisors know what is going on, for as you suggested this sh*t may start affecting your work. Please do not forewarn your WW before you expose. Forewarned is forearmed! Affairs thrive in secrecy. It is your job to let WW and OM experience how others feel about their sleazy behavior. Please do not postpone exposing. You can't work on your M until the A has ended. Exposure is one the ways BSs help accelerate the demise of an A. If you recall Gramm's thread, you should understand the need to expose.

Between trying to get ADs and exposing, that should keep you busy for the next two days or so. Beware that your WW will be furious after exposure. All WSs act that way. You marriage can survive temporary anger, but it cannot survive an ongoing A.

P.s. Although you should be nice when interacting with her, avoid the ILYs. She does not care to hear it from you right now and you have nothing to gain by saying it…at this point.

I'll keep you in my prayers.

Also get support from caring friends and family members. You need them more than ever. They will help you if you let them.

Thanks uva I m going to be ok this is her 3rd A in 7 months that I know about. She is really sucked into the fog. She told me yesterday during that conversation as I was explaining to her about learning and knowledging myself she said good u can use it for your next relationship. She was crying when she told me this and was very angry. She also said all you can do is focus on my infidality and I never even mentioned anything about them in this conversation. Babble talk.

I have to find out where the OM lives still. I have had to make death notifications to familys, how the heck am I going to reveal this to a pregnant women with a toddler.

I predicted my WW would make contact first with me today and guess what she did. The pattern is very humors. Her text said this " I miss DD" I replied how are you feeling and hows work her reply "Better Thanx" See when i observed A2 she immediately made contact with me in the morning saying the same thing "I miss DD" Is this guilt.

I will continue to be nice buy doing my plan A. I have to get a schedule set up for DD, But she is so resistant to this. I have to go and feed DD.

Do I want to expose this before xmas? Just doesn't seem right.