oooooh this post is really making me uncomfortable...
way way to many generalizations about "men" and in the absence of mr. ark who does not post here....boy do I feel the need to defend him and MEN....

for as many of the blanket statements made about the men here....it can be countered with blanket statements about women ...

I know just as many women who immediately decide that their husbands are totally incapable of doing anything right for the baby...
and design their whole post-partum experience working from that route....


they take on some super self imposed martyr role...

lets face it women have a huge advantage over men that they can never change...

they are the ones that give birth...men can't begin to comprehend to the whole experience...and then plenty of women wield that as a weapon over them.....

instead of seeking compassion..

how sad that a dad CAN'T offer a child the same nurturing that breastfeeding can.....
how confusing for them it must be for they CAN NOT truly understand it...

they can't ever ever meet that need the same way...
how sad that must make them feel....
how jealous even...and if we look at it compassiontately...how sad.....

women in my opinion need to encourage bonding in other ways...for they hold the upper hand....

I've had three babies with three C-sections and each birth only brought us closer both intimately and as a team...

I never made that six week post partum period without some type of intimate contact occuring....didn't want to


the real truth is that there are plenty of species in the animal kingdom that share in the raising of the newborn, mate for life, and work together as a total team....for survival alone it is not always just the female species...
just watch march of the penguins...

I think some women make men feel that they aren't and can't 'do it right"....

protecting my newborns...was equal in priority in protecting my relationship with my husband..
I needed him more than I ever had in our marriage...and I slathered him with praise and gratitude....

men are castrated from a lot of the baby process....and new moms should in my opinion NOT take on the super role ...for it is my opinion it is set up to fail....

even in this post there is a lot of negative feelings being tossed about those that choose or can't breastfeed...
I couldn't breast feed our first...she was in the NICU for ten days...and had her first meal while I was in another hospital recovering...by the time I got to her...she never did learn to latch on.....but she was alive, healthy, and home...

so I pumped for a while...
and she got both formula and breast mild for a while...
people do the best they can in that realm....

but for every man who doesn't get it..
there are plenty that do...
and I refuse to believe that my husband is so unique from the male species....

ARK

I have to agree, the arrival of a baby seems to be pivotal point in some relationships. It seems some men can't seem to take on the responsibility. My WBF also said that life wasn't going to change to suit DD. I think this shows his lack of understanding about the impact of a baby. Interrupted sleep for months on end has to take it toll, and something has to give until this period is over. It seems that some men bail out too early, and don't wait until the baby is less dependant and becomes more interactive. Seems like they put themselves as number 1.

With regard to BFeeding, I think it is the best thing ever, you are so much more portable, and it is there ready for baby, you can do it anywhere and it has been proven to be better for babies than formula. What more could you ask for, if you can do it go for it.

SM05 with regard to your DD getting eczema this could be due to stress and not the formula - just something to consider. I thought that my DD was having a reaction to dairy products when she got eczema, but now that I look back it was because she was stressed, we were living with friends at the time due to WBF A to give him some space.

My WH was brilliant when the girls were babies. He did all but breast-feed them. He was so proud. For us the problems set in later when the girls didn't 'need' daddy quite so much. When they stopped rushing to the door to greet him.

Breast-feeding/bottle-feeding - whatever. I did both with the twins. I tried really hard not to be the nagging new mother whose spouse can't do the right thing because I had a friend who was like that and it was painful to listen to. "Ian, do this, Ian, do that. Mind the baby's head Ian. Have you warmed the bottle properly Ian. Ian, I said the baby cream NOT the baby oil". It was truly awful to be in the same room as them.

I don't believe it is any more painful to discover an A during pregnancy, just after childbirth or after 25 years of marriage. The pain is devastating and unique to the BS and it is the greatest insult a person will ever have to bear. tt

Ark, please don't get me wrong... I'm not saying dads aren't capable or competent when there's BF involved. I tried all I could to encourage WH to bond with DD. He would cuddle with us as I nursed her. He gave her baths. Took her for walks. When he would get frustrated about not being able to give her a bottle, we agreed that he would be in charge of solids. I had a c-section, too, and in the early weeks, he would get her up, change her and bring her to me to feed in the middle of the night. Indeed, the middle of the night was my favorite time during those first couple weeks. But as soon as I was able to get her out of the bassinet myself, it stopped.

Whenever she was fussy, he got frustrated. Had very little patience for it when she wasn't a "good" baby. I guess I should've seen it coming b/c I can remember being out at dinner on several occasions and observing a family with a typical toddler doing typical toddler things and WH would say, "our kid will never do that. we will have better control."

In my opinion, "fog" is another term for allowing oneself to be controlled by animal instincts instead of choosing to be guided by human sense and reasoning.

I mean, look at what happens to any WS during any affair. They are so driven by their basic need for sex and attention that they will risk everything they have to get it. That is how animals behave -- that's not how humans have learned to live.

That's why you can't reason with a WS. You can't talk an animal out of being driven by its instincts. You can only reason with someone who is tuned into their human sense and reasoning.

If a male is controlled by his animal instincts and is not listening to his human sense and reasoning, he will see nothing wrong with abandoning his mate once she is pregnant to go out and get another -- or, at the very least, going out to impregnate another one while still keeping the one he's got. Animals are driven to do this in order to keep the maximum quantity of their own genes in the pool. Humans are supposed to care for the families they have.

Fog = Animal Behavior
Mulan