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Good timing. I'm having such a hard time right now, and I am just struggling with "why bother" being polite anymore, since that certainly didn't help prevent this mess. Thanks for a chins up!
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Think, think, think. I remember I started out the lost post by telling of some of the problems AJ had after coming home to an empty house and a PBL.
Even at the same time he was complaining about feeling like a prisoner, and me being his parole officer, (while there was C), he would go nuts if he couldn't reach my by phone, even for a short time. One day, I went outside to use the weedeater for an hour or so, and he was frantic and angry when I finally got inside and called him. I quickly developed the habit of letting him know where I was in the minutest detail, so he wouldn't think I had taken off without telling him. (He is better now, mostly.)
His insecurity was so great that if I got up during the night to go to the bathroom, and he felt that I was gone, he would wake up yelling for me. That happened alot, but hardly ever any more.
So I promised him on quite a few different occasions that if we had a big problem like that again, that I would talk to him in person, and not leave without telling him. That was one very important reason I wanted to have this confrontation in person.
I prayed the whole way down, and wondered what I should say if she was still there. I'm not sure if I was more relieved or disappointed when she was gone.
As I pulled up, AJ ducked inside the building really fast, and my wonderful brother told me he called her to tell her not to come back because I was there. (She was off getting more tools for him - another loan!)
He walked nonchalantly across the parking lot, but one look at my expression and he knew that I knew that he knew that I knew. He began crying right there in the parking lot, talking as fast as an auctioneer who was trying to sell something. He told me he hadn't had any idea she was going to be down there that day, (bet I could guess when he found out...), that she had called to say that if he wouldn't talk to her, she was just going to come down there and talk to him, and that he had told her to go and she just wouldn't leave.
To which I replied, "Then why didn't you call the police?" But the answer I got to that one was not entirely clear.
He just kept babbling. "Baby, please believe me! I swear I'm not lying to you this time! I'm really telling you the truth - please just believe me!"
I didn't say a whole lot, except for asking occasional probing questions. He was unnerved by my calmness, as well as the distant, skeptical look that answered everything he said.
We weren't going to get very far in the parking lot, especially since he kept minimizing everything, so I said I was going to go, and we would just talk when he got home.
He begged me not to leave him (overall, not just in the parking lot), and must have asked me at least ten different ways if I was really going to wait for him at home, or go away without a word.
"We'll talk when you get home. I don't know. I can't make any promises. We'll talk when you get home."
Neak the Broken Record.
He tried to hug and kiss me a number of times, and was dismayed in the extreme by my marked lack of enthusiasm. (Somewhere along the lines of zero.) I coolly detatched myself from him and got in the car.
"We'll talk when you get home."
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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she picked out this darling little sundress: bright red with flowers, short and shapely and flirty. Don't forget the push-up bra. That dress wouldn't have been nearly so shapely or flirty without it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> t&l
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Anotherpixie,
You're welcome. This is a very good place, and you will find awesome support.
I haven't seen your story, but I'll look it up as soon as Neaksis lets me have a break again. For now, it's back to the salt mines.
Definitely keep your chin up. If your politeness helps bring back your WS, you will be glad. If it doesn't help bring your WS back but you come through it all with grace and dignity, you will still be glad.
Neak
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Of course WH is not so foolish as to have OW there when BS's own brother is coming. Oh dear. He is. This was interesting to me when it happened, since Neakbro and AJ have been pretty good friends for years, and hang out together when they can. In addition, Neakbro shares his father's pathological distate of getting involved in anything that smacks of distasteful emotional involvement, or might involve the splatter of body parts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />. However, in this case, it turned out that blood was still thicker than alien stupidity, and Neakbro went down to help spy without hesitating or complaining...or dithering about conficted loyalties. Good Neakbro. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Isn't she the cutest thing? Quit kissing up to your sister, Neak. It won't get you out of anything she wants you to do. Trust me--it's been tried. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Didn't work any of THOSE times, either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> t&l P.S. Look up American General in Sacramento on Switchboard.com and you can get the number. It's on Micron Ave.
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That reminds me of another example of just how sleazy this was. AJ took Gargamel to my own brother's house, if you can believe it. This was probably the same trip where she drove AJ & my brother to another job site and stayed there all day.
My brother was a little suspicious, but not enough to say anything to me at the time. However, he remembered the car type well enough to describe it to me much later.
Also, my brother, prince in the realm of conflict avoidance, actually spoke up in my behalf, telling AJ that if he was going to do this kind of stuff he at least shouldn't hide it from me. I'm sure you can see some gaping holes in the logic, but that was a huge thing for Neakbro, and kinda sweet. (This was right after I drove away that day, wearing the famous red dress.)
BTW, Tuesday I had an OW-sighting. I was going one way and she was going the other. Now I recognize her car type anywhere. It's an awful awareness, but is still good because it leaves me less vulnerable to surprises, like meeting her around the aisle in the grocery store.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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While I waited for them to finish for the day, I spent my time putting the finishing touches on my PBL and list of boundaries. While I had a pretty good intention of still attempting to salvage my marriage, I also wanted to push the idea of having him leave for several days to give us a chance to decide what we wanted to do. I was willing, but only a little willing, to be persuaded to reconcile earlier, but not to be persuaded quickly or easily. Just for review, here was my original list of boundaries. 1. Complete NC, and if contact occurs he must tell me. He thinks this will be easy, but when he gets up I will point him to Dr. H's articles on here so he can be prepared for the reality of temptation when it happens.
2. Honesty - total and complete. I told WH that if there was anything he wasn't ready to talk about yet, to just say that and we would come back to it later, but he has wanted to talk about everything so far.
3. Open-book policy - it was pretty close already, with me having complete access to his bank account and all emails, but there were several privacy fences up; one around his cell phone (or so he thought), and one around his IM. He knows I will be watching those closely.
4. Accountability for time - he offered to take me with him everywhere, and failing that to check in with me often and let me know what he's doing. In addition, he no longer cares if I access him on the GPS. [And he had already taken care of #5, the marriage counseling.] For the sake of comparison, here is the new, improved list of boundaries that were to govern recovery #2, if there was to be a recovery #2. What It Will Take
· Another letter to Gargamel, explaining that you will not communicate with her again—ever. No loopholes. No contact for the rest of your life. Period.
· In this letter you will also let her know that she has until the end of July to find alternate employment. I agreed to let her work for us on a temporary basis, and that time has long since passed. [We shortened this time period to last only until the end of the payroll she was currently in.]
· Become completely honest. Our marriage will not survive further deception. This not only includes not lying to me, but means not giving me a false perception of something, as you tried to do with the phone calls. No lies, no evasion, no covering, just the full and complete truth.
· Commit to weekly marriage counseling with me, whether by phone or in person. After all this trauma, we need every possible advantage in order to recover our marriage.
· Keep in close touch the way you have been. I am willing to do the same to reassure you.
· Resign from [the job where the A began]. Your phone calls began again just after you started to work there for the first time since breaking up with her.
· Every possible precaution must be taken to erase her from our lives and make contact with her so difficult that you would have to make great efforts and great deception to even make it possible. This includes, but is not limited to:
o Trade cell phones using the phones from you, [and several other employees], and do not give her the new number.
o Give me your current cell phone (instead of [the one I have now]).
o Block her number from your phone.
o Get caller-ID-blocking blocked so there are no blocked numbers on the phone bill.
o Block all of her email addresses from all of your email addresses.
o Delete her from every possible contact list you have.
o Get rid of anything she has given you, cards, memorabilia, anything at all. (The tools will be paid for, and belong to the company anyway.)
o If you have to schedule her for the short time she remains with our company, institute employee numbers instead of names. [By now the sound of her name is so unpleasant for both of us that we refer to her as A Certain Person so we don't have to name her directly.]
o She will not hold any position in the company except [the one she now holds], and that only through July 31 at the latest. [He had previously been trying to get me to give her more assignments, such as scheduling all the employees. I will try to remember to say more about that later.]
o I will continue to deal with all money issues relating to repaying her loans to you. I will let you know once the money is all paid off, but other than that don’t bring it up. You can believe that I will pay it off as fast as humanly possible.
o Do not mention her in the context of the present. She has no more part in our lives. That means you don’t ask how she is doing, if I have mailed her check, or anything current. It is as if she is now dead, and has no place among the living. (The only time her name will ever come up is in dealing with something affair-related.)
o Tell me immediately if there is ever contact of any kind. If you are honest about this, we will simply find a way to prevent it from happening again through more precautions.
If this agreement is broken, at that point the only way I would even think of continuing to be married to you is if we move out of state, far from this area. (Carson City is not nearly far enough, Westby might be.) And, to be very blunt, depending on the level of dishonesty, especially in the face of all these precautions, I might very well decide to end things at that point.
You need to have some glimmer of how badly this recent episode has hurt me, in spite of how calm I have been in talking to you about it. After I compiled the list of phone calls showing just how many times you had called her, and had her call you right back, and exactly how long you talked each time, I walked quietly into the bathroom. For a little while I thought I might just throw up, but instead broke into hysterical, wordless sobbing. I have no idea how long I cried, but it was a long while.
I will not let this continue. There will be no accidents or second chances. There will be no excuses, and no reasons for any type of contact, at any time, ever. No matter how much trouble it might be to put these things into place, it is little enough to prevent the kind of agony I have suffered, and am still suffering now. I will not risk being hurt like this again. I love you enough that I am willing to try one more time, and I hope and pray you will decide to take that chance. Whatever else you might think about it, there is no arguing that the second list is far more comprehensive than the first. I also made it very clear that if thought of further precautions, they would be added to the list at that time. Please take this very much to heart: you can never have too many precautions. Well, maybe you could, but you'd have to try really hard. Don't neglect this little stuff. The Bible says it is the little foxes that spoil the grapes. Because of how repentant AJ had been at the beginning, I underestimated the hold the A still had on him, and just didn't think all that was necessary. It is far better to do it right from the start.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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For the first time ever released on this forum, the second, short PBL, created using the advice of many, but the Bible verse idea was from Mimi, and seconded by Believer. (Thanks guys, it made him cry. Again.) Dear Sweetheart,
I love you more than I know how to say, and have kept on loving you through this ordeal of the past months. On May 5, in order to preserve our love and our marriage, you promised you would end all contact with Gargamel for good. Yet you have been talking to her on the phone, and have told many lies to cover it up.
Our marriage will not survive if you continue your communication with Gargamel, and if you continue to be dishonest about any part of this affair. I love you. I want to be married to you. I want to go to St. Louis with you. [We were to attend a book signing there; that was the excuse, but it was our ninth anniversary.] I want to raise our children with you. I want to sleep every night with you curled up next to me. I want to grow old with you at my side.
Once again you must face a decision of “no contact”. You can choose to be my husband to me, and take every precaution to avoid further contact with Gargamel, or you can choose to leave and have no contact with me. There is no middle ground. I love you so much, and I hope you will choose to reconcile with me.
Moses stood before the children of Israel for the last time, tears streaming down his face. In a choked voice he told them, “I call heaven and earth to witness against you that I have set before you this day death and life. Therefore choose life, that you and your children may live.”
I love you with all my heart,
Neak
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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That was one of the shorter work days on record. AJ called an early end to it and beat feet home. On the way he called more than once to be sure I was still there, and would wait to talk to him.
The second or third time he called, we talked for quite a while. I told him I thought we should separate for a few days, and get things figured out before we decided anything. He really didn't like that idea, and unhappily asked how long I was talking about.
Airily I replied, "Oh, I'll just talk to you after I get back from St. Louis." I gave no hint that a teeny part of me hoped that somehow he would still go - we had been planning the trip since even before the A.
"Nooooooooooo!" he wailed. "You mean you don't even want me to go to St. Louis with you anymore?"
"I'm not sure." I shrugged almost audibly. "We can talk about it when you get home."
I started to let myself go once, but he asked me to please keep talking to him. I'm sure he was still afraid I would hang up and then go sneaking off so he would come home to an empty house again. He was so scared of that empty house.
Just before he lost signal, he asked me to please meet him at the gate.
I went and opened it for him, and stood there listening for the sound of his car.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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I'm going to drag out my favorite Mortarman quote again. It so perfectly explains the way Plan B works. Plan B is the ULTIMATE in power redistribution. At this point, the BS takes ALL of the power over the marriage. The BS now decides how this marriage will continue, how or if it will continue to exist, and terms by which that marriage will exist. The WS cannot argue, cannot negotiate (that was Plan A), cannot demand a thing. For the first time I donned my red cape of power and wielded it. It had been available to me the first time around, but I only fingered it a little, not really knowing how to use it. The second time, I put it on and glowed loudly enough to be seen from outer space. No more negotiating. All that is over. The BS takes the steering wheel, and thinks very carefully about whether to even stop next to the rumpled and disreputable hitchhiker standing by the side of the road, and ask them which direction they are going. And whether to show them the map.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Let's find out how long I can drag out this break. I am soooo tired right now! The only reason I haven't already been caught is that Neaksis was kind enough to snuggle the Dervish so he would hurry up and go to sleep, and stop throwing things all over and hitting and jumping and spitting and doing all the things a Dervish does to try and stay awake. And, well, there's nothing snugglier than a sleeping Dervish, now that he's asleep. Neaksis might not be quite all the way asleep, but must be dozing by now.
One thing I forgot to mention earlier, is that while we were talking on the phone as he drove home, he asked me what it would take for me to even be willing to hear him out. I promptly replied that he would have to immediately start being fully honest, or I was done.
I stood by the gate, filled with the knowledge that I was in the right, and that whatever happened next would be of my own choosing.
AJ drove in and parked. When he got out of the car he looked awful, as bad as the first time if that's even possible. A life of sin really does leave its mark on the face, and it certainly showed up on him. He walked toward me and thrust a double handful of cellular phone equipment. "She bought this for me."
There was no change in my exterior, but inside, his battle for me was nearly half-won when he did that. It showed me right there at the start that he was willing to admit to things that I didn't already know about. (I had looked for another phone, but hadn't found it yet.)
We went in and sat down at the dining room table. His composure was pretty well shattered before I began reading PBL #2, and when I got to the Bible verse part that Mimi and Believer had suggested, he broke down. My voice got a little trembly as I read the part about "that you and your children may live", but other than that I showed very little emotion, partly because I had very little emotion left.
He read through my list of boundaries and precautions, and immediately embraced them all. I was concerned that it was a little too quickly, and that he was not necessarily sincere. After all, he had cried all over me once before, too.
I just very nicely stuck with the idea of him leaving for a little while, emphasizing the need to take time to sort this out.
Through his tears, he quoted back at me just about everything I had ever said to him about how separating was not the answer, and how could we ever fix this if we were apart? Aha, so he was listening after all!
All in all, we talked and he begged for four hours. Mom was amazed I had lasted so long. It wasn't vengeance, or even wanting to see him suffer, but after everything he had done, I had to test his sincerity quite extensively before I felt safe taking him back. Hmmmmm. Not exactly safe, but safe enough for temporaries.
The last hour or so he went and sat in his chair, and asked me to sit in his lap. You would have laughed to see us. Of course he was hoping I would snuggle, but I sat there as prim and proper as a nun. Spine erect, Mona Lisa face, dinified barrier up high.
At the end of the four hours I gravely informed him he could stay on a trial basis, as long as the items on that list were attended to quickly, and never broken.
AJ is on his way home now, so I need to go start his supper. There is more to tell that may prove helpful, but that is the end of the major drama. In other words, you don't have to kill me.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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I kept the Evil Phone on my person, and of course went through and read everything, and looked at all the history. He had only had it about a week; she must have gone out and bought it right after I found the call on his regular phone.
When I asked him to turn over anything else she had given him, he gave me several cards (they were nose-pickingly boring, and only signed with her name, in sharp contrast to the bodice-ripping novelettes he gets from me), and a shirt I had no clue was from her.
She texted the Evil phone several times, first to say hi, then to whine that he was ignoring her, then to ask what he wanted her to do with the things she was off buying when he called to tell her not to come back because I was there. For that I briefly texted her to just take them back.
Because time was so short, we decided to deal with the NC letter and firing issues when we got back. It was a huge leap of faith to take him along without that tied up, but I did it for three reasons. One, he was showing alot of motivation for taking care of the items on my list himself. He was not getting any help from me; I was just sitting back watching. Two, it was only a day or two before we had to leave, and I didn't want to rush through and find out later I had forgotten something, or get over there and have her quit in a huff and try to sabotage our other employees when we were too far away to do anything about it. And three, I knew I could cold-bloodedly kick him out at any point in the process that he balked, and not shed so much as a single tear.
More about the trip later, but I will add that as we were leaving the hotel and AJ was packing the stuff from the bathroom, he realized he had lavendar body wash from her. Thankfully he hadn't used it on me, or I would have killed him; it was just stuck in the bottom of his overnight bag and he saw it then.
So the last remaining present from her wound up in a little trash can in St. Louis.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Well!!! I was just going to post and say that you might not be able to be here this morning before your Dr.'s appointment to deal with your, ah, issues...but I see it won't be necessary! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Call me when you know something. Don't let her admit you to the hospital without me. I'll be awake by then so you can call if you need to--although now that I think about it, I'm not sure what good it would do since I'll be a pedestrian all day today.
t&l
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Oh, don't say the H word to me! I have had enough of the hospital for a while. Surely she wouldn't want to do more than a blood test? Now you're getting me all worried, meep meep.
I'm sure she's just going to want to keep an eye on the situation. If she says bed rest, I'm going to scream and run.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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If she says bed rest, I'm going to scream and run. You can have bedrest Tuesday night! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> If she did anything involving a hospital it would be a simple D&C to scrape out the inside of your uterus. In all likelihood it would be an outpatient procedure and you'd be home a few hours later. I'm sure Neaksis would LOVE to take care of 8 kids all afternoon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Oh, yes. It IS done without anesthesia, but at my hospital, being all modern and stuff, we DO give you a bullet to bite on during the procedure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Don't be silly. Of course, they'd put you to sleep. For the procedure. Temporarily. Just don't go to the vet by mistake and tell them your mother said you need to be put to sleep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I'm putting myself to sleep now. Love you. No meep-meeping now. It'll be OK. t&l
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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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That was supposed to be reassuring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> What's wrong with you? Don't you recognize an encouraging word when you hear it? You'll never make it in Montana if you can't be at home on the range! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I'm getting offline now so I can actually call you up and speak by phone. How primitive. How quaint. How retro. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> t&l
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That's good. I was just trying to call you, and came back online to whine at you to call me.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Apparently nobody loves you anymore and you were almost to the 3rd page, and headed for Oblivia (it's in Central America), where you would become an Oblivion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> It is I, your mother, my darling endangered firstborn. I will save you. Run into my arms where I can hold you..... and drop kick you through the goal posts of the first page. WHE-E-E-E-E-E-E-E!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Well, she survived her trip, but has 3 days to shape up and fly right or there will be consequences. t&l
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Thank you, charming and considerate mother. I was very touched, right up until the goalpost part. I arrived just in time to see my spectacular landing.
At last, the children are all in bed, all 5 of them, poor Grandpa's tardy supper is cooking, and I have a chance to sit down before I pass out.
My status, in short, is ok for the time being. I am on antibiotics, and we'll see how I am Monday. I had a sonogram that didn't show any gross abnormalities, so it could just be an infection. However, if I am still in this condition on Monday after taking antibiotics all weekend, it will be a trip to the D&C4Me. Oh boy.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
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