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It must've been the Dervish's identical twin cousin.

Yes, things improved with practice. Even by the next day life was much better.

The funny thing was when, a few weeks later, I was having my first ultrasound, the conception date came out to the day of our wedding.

Oops.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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So, all's quiet on the Western front? I'm so happy that you have taken a stand on NC with that person.

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Me too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> For the first time since all this started, it's beginning to feel more like just the two of us, instead of having an ungodly presence standing between us. (The third party might still be in the same room, but at least farther away and easier to ignore.)

It really does get better, eventually.

Today is the Christmas play, so I'm not sure how much I'll be around here, but I will be thinking of everybody.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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I hope that this is the end of this and you don't hear anything more. Enjoy the Christmas play.

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Just wanted to say that I am enjoying your thread and posts. Have even read aloud some of your passages to FWH who is still in a state of disbelief of his own actions while he was lost in the fog.

Hugs,

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B, the play is going to be a real humdinger. Wish you lived close enough to come, but I'll tell you all about it.

Sleepless, thank you for letting me know. Your poor FWH, and mine too! It's hard for any sane person to understand a WS - make that impossible - and once sanity returns they just can't comprehend what they have done and how they did it.

AJ still feels so bad, and says he will have to live with this the rest of his life, which is so true, but it's still easier for him to let it go and focus on the present.

Telling about this has been so cleansing. What happened still hurts alot, and deeply, but the urgency is gone. I can feel that I am knitting back together. I really like this thread, and I think even once I'm done talking about the past that I will still hang onto it for updates or whatever. It tells the story, but without the raw pain of my early posts. And if those who are still stuck in Gehenna can gain insight into the 'dark side' that makes me feel even better.

I think I have said before that AJ, although he does not want to read this for himself, is also glad that our experience can benefit others.

I haven't forgotten. Still to come: Exposure, and Dealing With the OW. (In the meantime, we can always just chat. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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I was just musing today, not for the first time, of the so-common ILYBINILWY, which I never heard directly. It was one of the very few variances from the WS script, but he said so many other things that added up to that, that it is a moot point.

Even from the beginning, while he was still mostly cold, he would say things like, "A part of me will always love you." But then turn right around and say, "I feel much closer to her than to you." And talk about what a good friend she was to him, and how she was there when I was not.

Life is 180 degrees different now. He has never specifically taken any of those things back, but then I doubt he would remember saying them even if I had a video of those words coming out of his lips. But now it's "I love you with all my heart", and "You are my best friend". He is a new person from what he was only a few short months ago.

With Recovery #1, it was like AJ looked out the peephole and saw God standing there, but just said to himself, "That looks like a really nice guy. It would be helpful to talk to Him, and I know I need some help. Yes, I think I actually might talk to Him." And then he walked in the other room and turned on the TV. Recovery #2, AJ actually opened the door then and there, and hasn't looked back.

We pray together often, and it brings us closer to each other. If I had known how helpful it was going to be, I would have included it on my long list of boundaries and precautions. I would not be willing to do without it, now. More than any other single thing, hearing my husband lift me up in prayer nurtures such loving feelings for him. (Second place would probably go to the backrubs and other verbal/nonverbal gestures of affection.)

We take turns reading to each other from the Bible, or other inspirational books. We have animated discussions about the fascinating things we learn. It is a time of bonding like nothing else.

For any of you that are Christians, I just can't recommend strongly enough the importance of making God the center of your recovery. His Spirit will smooth the way, and make it easier to travel. There are still plenty of bumps left, but you just lean a little harder on Him when you come to them. Don't pass up the opportunity for the greatest blessing your marriage can know. Even if it feels awkward at first, it is well worth it.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Knocking. Pause. Knocking.

(A door opens slightly. A head appears)

Excuse me ladies. I hate to interrupt your conversation. And Ms. Neak, I hesitate getting you off topic and encouraging an onslaught of frustrated posts, but there is a poster that could really benefit from your encouragement / advice.

I am unsure if you have time, but her name is Tryingtogetit. It just seems less people are posting for her lately (possibly discouraged by her initial paralyzed response to her situation or possibly just holiday-busy). She is trying to prepare to do a plan B—and no one is responding.

You seem to have dealt with a similar cake-eater-crisis, so maybe you could help her, between your kid corralling, husband handling and recent salt mining, that is?

Thanks.

(A door closes gently.)


Ahuman FWW (35)
BH-a really great human! (39)
Married 1995
As 1998, 2001
D-day 4/2004

In recovery....
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I'll pop over for a short visit this morning, and try to have a nice long chat later today when I get back. Thanks, Ahuman.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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KKK just popping in to see if there is more of the rest of the story–specifically what remains of how you dealt with OW since having a time with FWH’s FOW myself right now. Sure you’re busy, it’s that time of the year and all, to be so, so will bid my time and check back .


Hugs,

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Hi again Sleepless,

For contrast, I am very Sleepy right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm not going to try and wade into the morass of post-A OW problems tonight, but my thoughts on exposure are much shorter.

Also, as I was reading tryingtogetit's thread yesterday, a few other memories popped up. AJ was never so far gone as to just blatantly tell me, "I'll be staying the night with Gargamel," but he did talk to each of us in front of the other.

With hindsight, I see I could have taken even more opportunities to make him miserable in the A, I mean, to reinforce my boundaries, but I guess I did ok with what knowledge I had.

It never occurred to me that I could insist that he not talk to her in front of me, or Messenger her on the computer. If it had occurred to me to even mention it here on MB, everyone would have told me, but that was only the last 2 1/2 weeks anyway.

He was always very uncomfy talking to one of us in front of the other, and tried to clip it as short as possible. In most cases, he would do his best to sound nonchalant and businesslike, so the one he was with would not suspect it was the other. I can't believe he thought I was so stupid; his voice and mannerisms, everything would change when it was her so I always knew, even when I couldn't prove it. Him thinking I was that stupid served me well for gathering intel, though.

On one occasion, when he called her on the business line, I picked the phone up after him and called redial. When she answered, I asked if AJ's uncle was there, then very innocently said I must have the wrong number. She called AJ up very promptly to complain, ha ha. Orchid could have told me all sorts of wonderful things to say, but I hadn't met Orchid yet.

Then there was the time I was riding in the squad car with him and she called. At one point in his short answers, he said with barely controlled impatience, "Yes, she is." That was one of the few times he came out and told me it was her, because he said she was very unhappy that he had let me come with him.

The b-r-r-r-i-n-g sound of a new Messenger window opening still makes me want to break things and commit general mayhem. Right at first, when she would send him a message or try to chat, and I would be sitting there massaging his shoulders or whatever, I would try and make myself stay. But it didn't take long till I would just get up and leave the room. Every single time there was a brrring and I marched out, he would call, "Where are you going?" As if he really expected me to stay there and minister to him while he chatted with his girlfriend. Well, actually he DID expect me to.

Once I started doing that, he didn't spend nearly as much time chatting, at least while I was around. Apparently he liked massages better than chats. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

But about exposure. In my case, I had to do very little. My family guessed, and I told his mom, but in my pre-MB days I begged her not to tell him I had told her anything.

By the time I began learning about exposure, I was already getting calls from numerous employees, and even AJ's older friends, asking me what was going on, and if the rumors they had heard were true: that he had a girlfriend and was divorcing me. I was happy to set them straight; yes he had a girlfriend, and no we were not divorcing and I still hoped to reconcile....just the two of us.

Very few people who would be the natural exposure targets didn't know by that time. So many people knew, that I thought AJ & Garg must be all but holding hands on duty. Some of the people had even heard that AJ was going around introducing to her as his girlfriend.

At that, I effectively gave up on exposure in my case, figuring that if they were telling people themselves, nothing I could add would make an impact on them. I saw it making a difference for others who were doing it, but just thought AJ was too far gone.

I was not to learn differently until just after the A ended (the 1st time).

A few days into R#1, AJ asked me how many people knew. As I began to list them, his jaw dropped, and he said that really bothered him. I replied that once I found out he was introducing her to people as his girlfriend, that I began talking about it freely with anyone who asked.

He said they had been so careful, and so professional around everyone. (Apparently he thought Everyone was as stupid as his wife.) And they had gone to great lengths to hide their relationship, or so they thought.

The effects were even more clearly seen in one of my few conversations with her, when I practically heard her claw her way up the wall when I started telling her who knew. (She asked.) She had the same little song and dance of how careful they had been. They both obviously thought they were extremely discreet, when actually they might as well have taken out a billboard ad.

So the big lesson here is, don't underestimate exposure. Looking back, I can see that if I had been able to wait it out a while longer, until the time when they began finding out that people knew and strongly disapproved of both of them, I think the A would have quickly imploded at that. Even in a case where it looked at first like it was useless, the shocks were still being felt more than a week after the A ended.

But at the same time, I don't regret at all just getting it over with. The 3+ months had taken so much out of me, that I could not have waited longer regardless. Which is why exposure needs to start just as soon as possible, so it will have the maximum time to work before the BS plunges into Plan B. I was at the end of my endurance, and time was one thing I did not have much of. (Try to picture busting an A and having a Dervish all at the same time, even with such a great help as Neaksis, shudder shudder. It's a wonder I'm not in a straightjacket! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

AJ is more at ease with it now. While he hasn't gone so far as to get up in front of church, he has told most of his friends, and talked openly with his family about it.

(Maybe I should submit an article to the paper, dealing with infidelity. "After my H's A with a local woman..." LOL!)

AJ realizes he is a new creature in Christ, and has no more need to be ashamed of his past, as long as it is the past. "For such were some of you, but you were washed..." While he regrets his choices every day, he is glad for those opportunities he has had, both with friends and family, to offer a word of warning about a path that looks so innocent at the beginning, but leads to destruction. Already he has helped at least two people in our immediate circle.

That is the best kind of exposure.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Thank you so much for your next instalment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I will wait patiently for the next. I agree with you on exposure. I found out myself about 1 mth after the A had broken off. I had not found MB by then but, I somehow instinctively knew exposure was a good thing. Also learned fwh was so lost in fog that he was introducing OW as his girlfriend too–and amazed by the number of people that already knew including two of my brothers who did not tell me to protect my feelings, and at least one of them was trying to talk sense into him. The other brother, well I learned just a three weeks ago that he is involved in an A himself. So now I am horrified to think they exchanged stories. Sad part is I was not talking either--he'd asked for a S and I accepted his denial that there was someone else and let him go, heartbroken, I took dd and myself off to our lakehouse to hide away for the summer. Not happy with brothers about this–not telling me--even if their hearts were in the right place-- wish they would have told me. But the worse is that my ds, 18, was actually introduced to her as such. No he did tell mom either--again to protect me- and this put ds in a very hard place and we are still dealing with issue of.

Hugs & God bless,

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Sleepless, how far into recovery are you?


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Not sure if I can say we are actually in recovery as yet. A ended Aug 8th, DD was Sept 6th, fwh had a breakdown, Sept 15th, lost all memory of her and affair and all details of life and business– last memory is Feb 18th, remembers walking through the gates of Daytona. He can not deny that it happened, evidence, paper trail and ow continued attempts to infiltrate makes this impossible. We are working on our marriage of course but I am still struggling to find details of and get past it. In the days after dd he was talking and being truthful but only a general manner, I suspect to protect my feelings. And naive and dumb and in shock, I was not asking many questions then.

Still dealing with OW, so salt in wounds there hence my interest in how you handled yours. Sent no contact letter after numourous attempt to get her to stop calling about 4 weeks ago. Was beginning to breath hoping it was finally over. But she called the 15th–at midnight to leave another message–do not answer her calls–but she leaves messages. The message left that time remarked after the fact that she still desperately wanted and needed him in her life that progressed to a notion that there was something growing inside her–that how she worded it and it would need a father. Doubt this is true–yet another lie like her suicide threats and even notions of being arrested--think yet another desperate attempt by her to garner his attention--and has been going on 4 plus months since last physical otherwise contact with him and think that if she did have this bit of a weapon she would have welded it before since she has tried everything else, but now need to prepare myself for this worse case scenario. I rose to her bait this time I am afraid and returned her call–she was quick to pick up no doubt thinking it was him–I blasted her after her sweet hello, with a three point call of my own, 1. Reminding her as she seems intent on denying the fact that he has a wife never mind that fact the he loves me, 2. Do not call. 3 and if there was something growing, a paternity/ DNA test would be required. She retaliated with yet another message left since I refused to pick up a number of calls, with a message left were in she actually blasted fwh for hiding behind his wife and made no mention again of the something growing inside her, ringing off with yet another notion of her desire to see and talk and be with him again. First time she has ever attacked him–before her calls are always sweet and sappy and tearful to him for his return to her, and attacks--messages left-- are always directed at me and my peace of mind- so am taking this as a plus. Have consulted vets here and will be drafting yet another no contact letter to her and send it registered. I know fwh is upholding his end of the deal, but she refuses to give up and am to the point of acknowledging may well need to go through law enforcement to get harassment charges and restraining order filed.


Hugs,

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If she has not respected previous NC letters, she will not respect any further ones. Perhaps you just want the certified one in order to have the documentation, but don't expect it to do any good.

Personally, I would go straight to the restraining order, and change your phone # today. At least for me, the phone company changed it the first time for free, since I had received unwanted calls, and if I had to change it again they would charge about $30. Having it unlisted will make it harder for her to get, and if she still looks it up you can have phone service changed into the name of a nice, helpful relative that she doesn't know about.

Change all your information that she might be able to get ahold of, cell phones, emails, everything.

Easy for me to say, but don't worry about any small packages until (IF) they actually arrive. Some OW will just do anything to try and hold on.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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And amnesia? Wow. It's hard to say how much he would have remembered anyway, but I know there have to be a lot of questions you would have wanted answered first.

Oh, and my opinion is that you are in recovery as long as your H is NC and wanting to work on the M, but OW is severely hampering your efforts, and will continue to do so as long as she is in the picture.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Already he has helped at least two people in our immediate circle.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

t&l

P.S. I'll be calling you when I wake up this afternoon, darling!

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Thank you for your help Neak. The phone is a problem because it is a cell/ business phone. No way to block either because if do so limits to address/phone book and new jobs mean new numbers/ calls coming in. His mental state is/ was such that only up till recently has he even had access to it. Myself and employees were fielding business calls for him. Reading your posts has given me a possible notion to exchange business cell phones. I hate to bring employees any more into, this our private affairs– though the captains of his company already know. And I do think his right hand man– would be more than willing to exchange numbers/ cells with and capable of dealing with calls normal directed to him–and or divert them to fwh new cell number. In fact just talked to fwh about doing this. He is agreeable. Was not at first since he does not think it is a problem since he does not answer her calls. But I disagree–do you think me wrong in this? Especially after her last message left would think he would be inclined to listen to her messages and do not want her to get to him. Any advice would be appreciated. Hugs

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It's no secret for an anonymous forum. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> One was his little brother, who though he has never admitted anything, I would bet anything was having at least an EA, but is now being attentive again to his fiancee and child. The other was a friend who confided that he enjoyed the admiration of another woman who was not his wife. AJ strongly advised him to focus on his wife and cut off the relationship with the other person, and told him a bit of where a seemingly innocent thing like that can lead. So far so good with the friend, too.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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It's no secret for an anonymous forum. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Yes, we Neaks DO value our anonymity, don't we? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

t&l

P.S. Good night. I'm not even going to wait and see what you answer, because I already know where THAT leads! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

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