I don't think it is an LB to let him know that any kind of contact with the OW hurts you.

Is there any possibility that you could move?

He refuses. He refuses to do anything other than "suffer". He is a martyr for the cause of LOVE. GAG
He is typical WS with all of his attention being focused on him. He is more concerned with how he is feeling than me, the kids, etc... He reads about 5 pages of a marriage help book (pick one, any one) and all he sees are the ways that he was mistreated. My tears are weakness. My anger is symptoms of craziness. My desire to forgive and work on the M is me being afraid to be alone or without him. He has noticed how I have changed in the areas that I needed to change but I did that because I was afraid of losing him. One word comes to mind more often than not when I am dealing with my H...[censored]!!!

Loni

Well, at this rate you may lose your love for him. A BS can go for a long period with nothing in return, but sooner or later it all catches up. Once you lose your love, it is really gone.

My WH are divorcing, and I have essentially no contact with him at all. He calls every couple months to babble a little, but mostly I ignore him. I don't care what he is thinking or doing anymore.

I am so sorry Believer. I hope you find peace and happiness with someone who will truly love you more than himself.

Loni

Don't be sorry, I'm happy now.

But take care to guard your heart - because you can get to the point of no return.

I won't do this anymore. I am getting to where I don't even like him. I can barely remember what kind of husband he was before the affair. I have been doing this for over 2 years. He refuses to stay away from sitchs where the OW is present. Tonight at the volleyball game, he kept glancing over at her. He thought that I couldn't see him. He told my DS that it didn't look like I had missed a meal while I was on the phone talking about how busy work was and that I barely had time to grab lunch. NICE.

Oh God... I don't want a divorce but he is hurting me more every day with his lack of care and hateful statements. Even just the fact that he would rather talk to a complete stranger than his wife. HIS WIFE. When did I become persona non grata in my own house?

What do I do?????? I am scared of screwing this all up. I am afraid that I already have. I know that he has screwed up royally. I haven't made him pay for it either. I have been plan a'ing it for so long now. I should have implemented plan b but I was so scared that my marriage would be over if I did. My kids still want him home. They will hate me if I kick him out. They are all teenagers and not easy to deal with on a regular day. Oh God... What do I do?

Loni

Hi Loni, sorry to hear your situation isn't improving as you would like it. The hurtful statements and lack of care is typical behaviour from a WS and it really hurts even though it can be fog induced.

I think it is defenitely Plan B time in your case. Your husband is on the fence and he needs to be knocked down...either side. Plan B can be scary but if you don't do it you might never get better. I'm very close to Plan B and I can honestly say I am now ready for it.

Loni, you sound like a great mother, wife and person so I know you will be fine no matter how this turns out. It time to focus on you now and let WH decide for himself what he wants. After reading all your posts, I think it's time you WH get a wakeup call in the form of Plan B.

You can do it and we will help you through it.

Can you get your WH to leave your home?

Last night, I finally decided to do it. I told him that he has to begin working on the marriage or he needs to leave. I told him that I will not live like this indefinately while he is being the good dad and a lousy husband.

Did I unleash the beast...... Here are a few exerpts from what he said.

"I know who I am" "Leave me alone" "I'm not worried about you, I worry about these kids" "You did things to get us here and you are scared of me leaving so you are trying to make it better". "I'm a good husband"

And my responses...

"I know who you were and what you are like now" "I can't leave this alone, we can't work on anything until it is addressed and we have some major issues" "I am not afraid of you leaving, I just know that we had a very good marriage and I am not willing to settle for less, I know that you can be a great husband" "Are you a good husband right now?"

He always tells me to not bring the kids up when we discuss our M. I told him that the kids are an important part of our M and have a huge stake in what happens to our marriage. He grudgingly agreed but told me that I dragged the kids into this too much. I didn't agree or disagree, I just asked him to elaborate on when and how. He couldn't answer.

A couple of times, when I pressed him on an answer, he threatened to leave. I just asked if he thought that was a threat. I am not scared of him leaving like I was. I don't want him to leave but I expect a lot more from him than he is giving.

He even came up with something new that I can't really believe. He tried to tell me that I have talked to too many people and that a couple of my friends have come up to him to ask him how he is and to tell him that they are avoiding me because all I talk about is the A. Somebody is full of it because I haven't noticed anyone avoiding me that I have trusted enough to discuss this with. Of course, he wouldn't tell me who it is so I said that he can keep his secret but I can't believe it.

Finally, before bed, (an hour later)I asked him if he even likes me anymore. He said "of course I do". I asked if he felt love toward me. "yes." I told him that I won't settle for anything less than baby steps in the right direction. I told him that I am here to work on the M and not stay roommates. He said that he is working on the M. He says that he is here, he isn't in the A and he is staying away from her and not talking to her even though it is really hard to not even say "hello". He did say that he doesn't want a roommate relationship either and that he wants the marriage to get better.

All through the evenings conversation, I asked him what he would be willing to do for the marriage. He kept saying that he didn't know or nothing or leave me alone. Right before bed, we agreed that a baby step for us would be a long hug and kiss before going to sleep at night. I really need that. I kind of think of it as a salve after a long day of recovery.

Am I doing alright here guys?
Loni

Don't worry Loni, I got the same thing from my WW. I'm glad you are not accepting crumbs from you WH, you shouldn't.


After a while just being there is not good enough anymore. My WW would say the same thing. That is not working on the M it is comment from a fence sitter.

Thanks HTW,

I have been keeping up with your post. It sounds as though you have done an excellent Plan A. I wish mine had been as good but I guess you can only do your own personal best and only what you know at the time. My H told me that I am an excellent wife. Isn't that funny? This was after telling me that I was so lucky to have had such a good husband as him. I hope he was talking about pre-affair. I did tell him, at one point, that I knew the before-h and the after-h. At least he admitted that he isn't a good husband now and hasn't been for a long time. Kind of took the wind out of him to admit that. The truth hurts but it will set him free.

Am I being a fool for not pushing him out the door?
Loni

I'm back...

The roller coaster of this sitch had me trapped for awhile. Things actually have improved. My H seems to be softening toward me. When he kisses me goodnight, he pulls me close and embraces me. In fact, every time he kisses me, whether it is goodnight or goodbye, he pulls me close. It feels sooooo good. Amazing how a little embrace can help me feel better about the relationship.

The best part, though, came the other night. We were getting ready for bed and my H was looking for the motrin. I had taken them to work with me because I was suffering with an earache, so they were in my purse. He asked,"Were you going to take all of them?" I automatically thought he was bringing up the OD again. I just handed him the bottle and turned around to turn off the lights. Then I faced him and simply said, "That wasn't fair." He became all surprised and said that he hadn't meant it like that. I just told him "OK" and we went to bed.

Upstairs, I was thinking about how the OD probably made him feel trapped in that he couldn't leave without wondering what I would do to myself. Even though the OD had nothing to do with him leaving. I came to bed and kissed him goodnight, then I said, "Honey, I love you with all of my heart and I want to work things out with you very much. But, I want you to know that I will be OK whether we are together or apart. Do you feel trapped here with us? Because, if you do, the door is always open and I won't do anything to myself if you use it.

Here is the best part...



Ready?......



He pulled me close, kissed me sweetly, and said, "I know that and I don't feel trapped. Now, go to sleep."




Recovery is one heck of a ride. But it beats the heck outta the affair.

The only down part of the past week was when my SIL came to watch my DD play volleyball and sat with the OW and the OW playing with my niece and nephews. I hope the relationship works out with my H but I have no plans to salvage anything with my SIL. I think it was Oprah who said that when someone shows you who they are...believe them. She showed me and I believe her. No character. If there is character there, then she has a lot to learn about loyalty.

Loni

3 steps forward and 2 steps back...

He brought up the subject of divorce again. He started it by asking me how much the lawyer said I would get for child support. When I told him, he said that that wasn't the case since we would share custody. I just smiled and told him that I wouldn't share physical custody. Legal custody..yes. He then said that he would fight me for it. I told him that I didn't want to discuss divorce if we were working on the marriage. I asked him if he was still considering divorce and he said that he wasn't. I told him that I was done talking about it then.

I found out from my DD15 that he told her what was said and that she was all for joint physical custody. He told her that he made me mad by saying he would fight for custody. I told my DD to not worry about it for now since we were working on the marriage. I then asked him why he would tell her about the conversation and all he could say was that he felt like it.

This was several days ago and he has been acting like a jerk ever since. Things didn't improve with bad news from the accountant and the total of our tax return was a lot less than he had expected. For my husband, a constant money worrier, this was horrible. The other night, after an entire day of his sour mood, I attempted to get some kind of assurrance that we were going in the right direction. I asked him to please show me that I matter. He said that he did by kissing me goodnight. I told him that I don't feel loved. He said that he didn't either and to go to sleep. Then he said that he hates these late night talks. I told him that I didn't want to have a discussion just to feel loved by him. He then said that I needed to quit and go to sleep and he was tired. He actually started to get a little loud. Fine.... I went downstairs to calm down and to get my head together. I ended up sleeping on the sofa for most of the night because I felt less alone on the sofa than I did in my bed next to my husband.

The next morning was Sunday and I got the kids ready for church. I had 3 extra kids spending the night so I was going to need help getting them to church since there wasn't enough room in my car. My DD15 decided that if her dad wasn't going than she wasn't. My H tried to tell me not to make a big deal about it but I insist on all of the kids going to church on the Sundays that I don't work. I haven't insisted on my H going but occasionally I will ask him to join us. Finally, after alot of going back and forth and a threat of grounding, my DD15 was in the car. She had told her dad that if she was going than he should be going too. My H had one son and his 2 friends in his truck and I had the rest of the kids. My H actually went into church and stayed for the sermon. I was in the nursery so I didn't get to hear the sermon but my kids told me it was all about marriage and family and how wives need to not nag but admire and husbands need to not ignore and neglect but cherish and love. My DD15 said that my H must have crossed and uncrossed his legs about a 100 times.

God works in mysterious ways
Loni

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Yes he does! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm glad your H stayed for the sermon. The fact that he didn't just walk out is actually a very good sign (and the fact that he was squirming through it we can enjoy; but only a little <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> lol).

As for his divorce talk he's just sounding you / COM out on it. He's still testing you and your commitment to the M. He still can't forgive himself for what he's done. He's totally bewildered and has trouble coming to terms with the fact that you're willing to forgive him. I think he's going to continue probing along this line until he figures out how to forgive himself.

Is there any chance that he can see an IC and / or go to MC with you?

I understand your H's financial concerns. I have never handled financial bad news well and share some of his struggles / insecurities with it. One thing that I have learned however is to not take it out on the family. One of many discoveries I made the night of my epiphany. I hope one day that your H will figure out how to handle fiscal fustrations and stop from lashing out at the ones he loves.

When the financial chips are down he's likely feeling even more guilty than normal. Not being as good of a "provider" as he wants to just adds to the guilt (& general fustration).

How's your father doing in the appt?

How are the sports seasons going? Is there anymore seeing the OW from afar?

Sorry I haven't been able to post to you for the last few weeks. We've been haveing a few trails and tribulations of out own.

On a good note though, last night the littlest one got up and walked across the room the greet me when I got home. Before this she would only take one or two steps before going down on hands and knees to crawl over to me!

I don't sound like an overproud daddy do I?

Stay Strong!

Hi WTF,

It's always a pleasure to hear from you. I am so glad that life at home is so wonderful for you. Your little one is at my favorite age. I love the time between 1 and 2 yrs old. They are so adorable and cuddly but becoming little people too. God bless your family. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Volleyball season just ended. Thank heavens. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Yep, I got to see the OW at every blessed game except for one tourney out of town. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> No contact between my H and her but I did see him looking at her when she was leaving at the last game. GAG. It should all be ok until softball season starts in the spring. Did I ever mention that my two youngest kids are best friends with her two oldest? Talk about complicated. For over a year, I wouldn't let my kids visit with hers at her house. They have always been welcome at mine and, in fact, they love me. Her DD15 hugs me all the time, even in front of her mom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I gotta admit it sure makes me feel good because my kids hardly speak to the OW unless it involves their friends. They certainly don't like her and would never hug her. I recently have allowed my kids to visit at her house but there are strict rules to follow. EG... the OW is not to come to our house for any reason. I will do the picking up and dropping off unless arranged through me for an alternative. The OW is not to discuss the A with my kids and if she does, they are to call me immediately and I will pick them up.

My preference would be for my kids to make other friends, but I don't want to punish the kids for something they had nothing to do with. One thing that I really don't like, though, is when her kids are at her house and they call mine, her name is on my caller ID. Irrational but I can't help not liking it.

I am working on the whole MC thing with my H again. He is the one that stopped it and he doesn't want to go again. He says that he doesn't like talking to someone about our personal business esp. since they don't know us. I prefer for them to not know us. I like the whole idea of being able to just look at the facts and work from there without preconcieved notions about us. I think that he didn't like counseling because he had to face what he had done and it was too invasive into his fog. I totally agree with MC not working until the affair is over, though. We went through 4 different counselors and none of them helped because he was too involved in the affair to be open to reconciliation.

Is recovery normally so frustrating? I know that we aren't completely into recovery because he isn't on board yet, but am I normal in feeling like it's not worth it sometimes? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

My H asked about one of our counselors the other day. I talked about him seeing someone and he said that I vetoed that. I didn't veto it but I was worried about who he would see and if that person would just go along with whatever bologna my H came up with. It seems that to my H, this was a veto. That makes me think about all the times I told him to stay away from the OW. Now that was a veto. Why didn't he listen then? HMMMM. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I was very pleased that my H went to church and listened to the service. It used to be so much like a second home to him so I hope he opens himself up to God's forgiveness. I agree that he hasn't forgiven himself yet. He isn't going to believe that I have forgiven him until he does that. Maybe if he accepts God's forgiveness, he just might follow course.

The other night, he tried to bring up old beefs that he had with me that don't exist any longer. I let him beef for a minute before I told him that enough is enough. I told him that I never set out to hurt him and when I realized that I had, I did everything I could to show him that I was sorry and to prove that I won't do them again. I then told him that I didn't know I was hurting him and that he had done things that had hurt me too and some of those things, he knew ahead of time, would hurt me. So it all comes down to forgiveness. He didn't say too much then. I realize that he had some important issues with me but, I have had enough of being beat up on verbally for things that I have already addressed. I think he is still trying to justify the affair and for his loss of love for me. I just don't want to hear it anymore. It would be like me bringing up the affair everytime I get irritated by him. Don't you think?

Gotta go
HUGS
Loni

Loni,

I posted this on the other thread that you started also.

Walking

Loni,

Here's something that my W and I do. When I get home from work we both retire to our bedroom for 15 - 20 min. I change from my "work" clothes to my WORK clothes. During that time it is just for "small talk" between us. Talking about how our day went, any family news, etc... It is just a few mins to reconnect for us.

We also set aside an hour each evening (usually after we've put our kids to bed) to be together. This time is very free form, we may wash dishes, pack lunches, work on a project, talk, or just watch TV. But we make sure to do it together.

The "15 Hour" rule is a good rule but I'm afraid your FWH may balk @ 15 hours a week. It will probably sound like a lot of time to him and he may get stuck on the figure.

Any amount of time that you can get your H to commit to is good. It will build gradually as you reconnect.

BTW I like what you are considering if he's up doing it.

Has the break from Volleyball season helped? I know there's probably a break of about a month before softball season starts.

I wondering if he doesn't get to see OW "from afar" if he mignt not start actually going into withdrawl from her. I firmly believe that his seeing her "from afar" is just dragging out / stalling the ability for your M to really start recovery.

I want to let you know that I believe epiphany's happen. One happened to me. That is one of the reasons I am on the boards. It happened after a particularaly nasty arguement between my W & I (I'll spare you the details). As is my want, I went out of the house and "walked the fields". Only this time, instead of focusing on how angry I was with my W, I started to think about why / how the arguement started. I then started to think back about other arguements we'd had over the years. In those few hours that I was "walking" I started to see patterns in MY behavior that shocked me. I realized that if I kept up these patterns I could really endanger my marriage. By the end of this "walk" I vowed that I would NOT repeat these patterns and I would make changes for the better. I WOULD become a better husband to my wife.

That was a few years ago. IMHO our marrige has never been better than it is now.

That is my "ephipany" story. I truly hope something similiar will happen with your FWH.

Keep you eyes on the prize, Loni!

Stay Strong!