Noone else held your hand while I was out... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

How did you do?

UGH!....I'm okay so far.....BUT he hasn't been online until NOW!! So far he hasn't tried talking to me...

I'm too exhausted now to talk about it...but I'll be back with an update...We had a MAJOR talk tonight (this morning) FINALLY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Well....... J and I talked online for 4 hours last night and got into some pretty deep stuff.

Figured out that the reason he is holding me at arms length is because of the ex girlfriend who literally abused him and still to this day trys to wreck his spirit by doing mean and vicious things...slashing his tires for one. We talked about how he is still unknowingly letting her control him (even though they have been done for a few years) by not letting anyone get close to him...namely ME. We talked about how I am not her and how he needs to let the horrible things she had done, go. I told him that he can't live the rest of his life in fear that any woman he meets is going to be like her and he agreed that he had been doing that and that it's not fair to assume I would be like that also.

Another concern was that he belongs to a men's organization in NY State that my father and 2 brothers also belong to in PA and it's an unwritten rule in this organization that members don't date female relatives of other brothers (members) because they are considered sisters. BUT we've had lengthy discussions about this in the past and this unwritten rule is broken soooo many times that it's really quite silly to even talk about it. So we hashed that out again. Having grown up in and around this organization all my life I know how seriously these men take their oaths and it's very honorable of them. But like everything else that has been around for years...times change and the rules need to bend with the times...and J agreed.

Another concern of his was the hour drive from one another. With the holidays his work schedule is WACKED so that doesn't help at all but thankfully we have less than a month of that to go...but then there is the horrible weather here that will keep us apart. We did talk about the kids and I moving up to where he lives...possibly this summer or fall. He said we would/should need talk about that later and in person.

We talked about logging onto the dating site where he and I met and he gave me a typical (I should have known) male answer...he signs on "for fun"...I said "fun?" he said he "bored"...and I take it to mean...the look but not touching scenerio that men do. I asked if he was shopping and he said "absolutely not!" He asked me if I was shopping and I also told him "no". So I feel better about that. It was really bugging me even though I know he doesn't pay for dating sites it was still an issue and now isn't an issue.

The rest of the conversation was planning future visits and stuff and I think in the end we both felt much better about where we are and where we want to go with this. It definately opened up the line of communication again. He and I are both so bad at it. Both coming from abusive relationships where it's pounded into you that your opinion doesn't matter. We are learning that it's okay to talk about our feelings, wants and needs. Kind of nice for a change. I'm feeling more hopeful for us than I have for a few weeks now.

I still haven't heard about the job. She is to make her decision BY Friday if not before...so every time the phone rings I jump and dive for the phone. The good thing about this job is that they have 3 local offices...one here, one 20 minutes away and one where J lives and transferring wouldn't be any trouble at all.

The pessimist that I am believes that all of this is too good to be true. I'm anxiously waiting to have it all come crumbling down around me. J to change his mind (which I have no reason to think he will) and not getting the job(which there is no reason why I shouldn't). Nothing good happens to me without it eventually come crashing down. Does anyone else live with this looming doom? I've had this Charlie Brown kind of thought process all my life. If something bads gonna happen it's gonna have my name written all over it.

Oh well..enough analyzing for now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Thoughts and opinions appreciated! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Just letting you know I see your update. Hopefully you'll get some opinions. I'll be back later!

hugs

My hope for you is that you've come to a new understanding and it will bring the two of you closer.

I wish the best for you Alluring!
I have hope for you about the job. I think you have a good chance otherwise I feel you would have heard if it were negative.

K!

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SLAP ME QUICK!!!

*W * H * A * P * !

Ahh, to be abusive with your permission pretty feels good. Seriously though, you don't welcome my opinion, but I'm giving it anyway....

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Figured out that the reason he is holding me at arms length is because of the ex girlfriend who literally abused him and still to this day trys to wreck his spirit by doing mean and vicious things...slashing his tires for one.

Did YOU figure this out or did he TELL you this?

Seems like you've done a fair share of psychoanalysis on this guy and came up with this explanation. If he actually told you this, I would question his maturity and his suitability as a mate. If he can't deal with something in from his past and it's filtering through to YOUR relationship with him, he shouldn't be dating at all.

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Another concern was that he belongs to a men's organization in NY State that my father and 2 brothers also belong to in PA and it's an unwritten rule in this organization that members don't date female relatives of other brothers (members) because they are considerecd sisters.

This is a stretch and I would have told him so.

You can't honestly BUY this as a legitimate reason for his apprehension!? It's so absurd....Logically speaking the two of you AREN'T related so what matters more--some unwritten men's club rule or YOU?

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We talked about logging onto the dating site where he and I met and he gave me a typical (I should have known) male answer...he signs on "for fun"...I said "fun?" he said he "bored"...and I take it to mean...the look but not touching scenerio that men do. I asked if he was shopping and he said "absolutely not!"

His answer was NOT a typical male answer. It was HIS typical answer that you obviously bought. When a man is happy in a committed relationship, they don't log into dating sites.

I've never used a dating site myself, but I know plenty of men and women who do. More often than not, they stop logging in completely when they begin carrying on serious relationships.

I have to stress that I'm not the jealous type, but I'd question my Husband's motives if he was logging into a dating site "for fun". Would you accept that excuse if you were married to this man? Truly--if you believe he's not shopping, you're pretty naive.

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..he said he "bored"

Bored enough to log into a dating site, but not bored enough to pick up the phone and call you. INTERESTING.

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I'm anxiously waiting to have it all come crumbling down around me.

I'm all about thinking positive when the situation IS positive. I just see many red flags looming around you. It's strange--people who worry and are negative are usually the ones who miss the warning signs early on. In your case, you're strangely optimistic in the face of all these bad signs, yet you're waiting for it to come crashing down on you.

Why not be proactive and not allow the crash to happen?

[color:"blue"] I hate to admit this - but I agree with Aeri on this one.

These are the kinds of fish tales that cheaters tell.

BTW I talked to my ex's friend lately who told me that my ex told him that I had cheated on him - exactly the story he told me about his first wife. He cheats but he doesn't want anyone to know that he cheats so he lies and says his wife was cheating.

This guy is giving you excuses why he shouldn't date you. Maybe you should accept that the truth is he is telling you that you shouldn't date him. The only truth here is the truth where he admits how rotten he is by trying to convince you that you shouldn't date him.

Good luck on the job thing.

V. [/color]

I'm with Aeri. And by the way, she's obviously learned a few things on this site because she remarried - happily.

We make too many excuses for men. If we appropriately establish our boundaries, and understand what we want, we will know it when it comes along.
You don't have it with this guy, so don't make it into something it isn't.
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(yeah, yeah, it's "safe" to date someone you know isn't right, that way you don't have to invest anything emotionally. But, you are limiting your growth that way and your time could be better spent). This last part is a lesson I'm finally able to drill into my head.

I totally agree with aeri and sunny...

There is no reason to wait for things to come crashing down - they already HAVE! You just haven't stepped back and processed the phone conversation yet - once you do, you will see that what you got was a bunch of crap, which you unfortunately bought hook line and sinker.

I am not hammering on you, I have been in the same place, where I so desperately wanted to hear certain things from my GF that I bought every small shred of positive stuff as a good sign, missing all the bigger red flags.

As aeri said, men do not browse the dating sites out of boredom when they are happy relationships. So right there, you know he is not bored, but (sorry for being blunt) he is bored with his relationship with you. No ifs ands or buts about it.

The "men's organization" "rules" for not dating relatives?? Gimme a break, no one in their right mind would buy that.

Same for most other things you mentioned - you felt better because he pacified you, but these are all empty words - the facts remain that he will keep cruising the dating sites out of boredom (wink wink) and you will keep obsessing about it... BTDT.

Alluring, I would very strongly urge you to dump this guy like the loser that he is. Let him cruise the dating sites without the comfort of having a willing booty call partner to fall back on. You really deserve better.

You know, it makes me ashamed to be a guy when I see my fellow guys act like these immature jerks; where do you gals find these princes???

AGG

OK, I'm back. Miss me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Good luck with the job thing. If this doesn't work out, do you have some other options lined up?


So, where are you, and where do you want to go? What's different now?

Based on what you've told me about him before, how much talking, with you listening, actually took place? Or were you asking questions, with him giving short answers... so that you heard what you want to hear?

We girls will have too much "in our head" about conversations, and about relationships (ummm... fantasizing)... and sometimes guys that can't communicate well, and/or enjoy a relationship without a commitment, will get by with yes and no answers, manipulating the conversation in whichever direction the girl takes it, JUST so he can avoid a conflict, and can avoid his real feelings and intentions, and if he KNOWS you're going to stick around because of it, he's getting what he wants.

In all the time period that you have stayed quiet from him... how much effort did he put forth to contact you... to let you know he's thinking about you and cares about you? Did he ask about you, and how you're doing?

Talk to you soon Faith!

Thanks Karona!!

BTW I'll send you girls an email about some of the other stuff too.

Every conversation we have like this brings us closer and we have decided to go exclusive with one another...I thought that was kind of obvious by saying that we talked about us moving up there.

And when it comes down to it...I know him and you don't. I know what he struggles with on a daily basis with the MS and how he doesn't want to be burden on anyone.

I have not ever caught J in a lie. If he says he's going to do something he does it. I cruise dating sites too, which is why he asked me if I was still shopping. I do buy the boredom thing...I do it too when I'm bored...doesn't make me a bad person or a cheating person.

Nevertheless...I'm very happy with the outcome and I think we made great strides, we answered alot of our concerns and we talked about a future together.

Thanks for your thoughts though.

We have decided to go exclusive which as you know is a major step.

It was a mixture of both of us taking turns talking, asking and listening.

The books have also helped me alot not only to pass the time when I was silent but also to get where he is coming from AND to know that I do/did need to tell him when I'm hurting, lacking or whatever. I can't let it build up just because I want our quality time happy and joyful...It's the good and the bad, not just all good. I'm learning and hopefully my actions will show him what I want his actions to show me. Words are just words as you well know.


He asked about me, asked about my kids, asked how I was, asked what was new...I think the small time framed absence helped both of us individually quite a bit as hard as it was for me at the time.

You are right, I only know what you post. But when you leave out an important detail like you deciding to become exclusive, that tends to give us a different impression of a conversation than what you took away from it.

You said:


This in itself does not make it "obvious" that you decided to become exclusive. Actually, it simply says that you discussed moving, and he said the discussion should take place in person. This does not indicate that any decisions were made.

Anyway, I am glad things are better, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

I am curious, if you don't mind, what is the organization that does not allow men to date other members' family members?

AGG

Mason's

Ok...

My best friend's Father and her Husband are members of the same Masonic Lodge. Does that mean that my friend married her uncle??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

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I cruise dating sites too, which is why he asked me if I was still shopping. I do buy the boredom thing...I do it too when I'm bored...doesn't make me a bad person or a cheating person.

Cruising dating sites isn't proof positive that a person is "bad" or a "cheater" but it does indicate (to me, at least) that the person is BORED with the relationship or at the very least, unsatisfied. If you're still browsing dating sites, maybe you haven't found the right person, either.

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And when it comes down to it...I know him and you don't.

I assume when you post something, you're providing all the relevant information so you get advice based on the facts. If you know the situation best, then why do you ask for advice at all? In the end, you can always say you know the situation better, especially if you choose to withhold important information.

Allurin'...I think I may have mentioned this before:

MB will be here to help you pick up the pieces when this guy finally finds the Bigger, Better deal and moves on. MB will also be here if he does decide to stay with you and you have problems later on...Hopefully, we'll all be here if this relationship turns out to be the most PERFECT one that ever existed. The point is, it's not a contest--we're all here to help each other. When others take the time out of their lives to post, they do it because they're trying to help you....

You're among many friends....