Any more news from you wife?

Well, here is the latest. WW came home around 11:30am. We spoke no words for over an hour. Then she spews about how if I don't agree to the conditions we had talked about before, then she will "get the kids" and I will lose. She says she has all the $ she wants to pursue this. (OM is sitting on a $250,000 settlement, but would lose his disability check) She says I'm being stupid, and won't ever win!!

Then about 2 hours later, she comes to me kinda nice and says I'm begging you to talk to me about this, for the kids sake, and says I'm a wonderful father, and that she would never take them away from me. I told her that if she agrees to go to marriage counciling for 3 months, and it didn't work, I would sign the original agreement. She said, oh, your going to blackmail me. I said, no I'm trying to save our M keep our family in tact. She said no way!! Then I told her I have a lot on my mind and need time to think about things. That got her off my back.

I plan on going full tilt, making her do the legwork, which could be risky. I have a lot to lose, and am scared.

Comments? I'm not sure that she could ever come back to me after seeing her anger and all the lies and deceptions that she's gone through with me. She's off again tonight to her company X-mas party....with her sister. I've got the kids again!! (Which is great!) She's spending her night again at her sister's (yeah right)

Chime away!!!! You folks have been great!!!

So you have a Sybil in your home. Split personality changes on a dime, eh? Isn't it spooky how she has an agenda and has the nerve to think she can trick you? Well she probably has had success tricking you in the past but you are more equipped to recognize her tricks and more aware of yourself, your boundaries and needs.

Good job.

Taking care of the kiddies is hard work but very rewarding.

Enjoy!

L.

Oh dear, we've got a lot of work to do with you. So she apparently spent the night with the OM. Now you have agreed to sign the original agreement IF she will go to MC for 3 months.

For one thing, MC will be useless as long as she still is in contact with the OM. Your mantra should be you refuse to entertain the idea of divorce, and if she insists, you will fight for custody, and she can leave.

Now she is going out again tonight, while you enable her affair by watching the kids.

I would let her know that you are getting a babysitter and will be attending the party with her.

You can not just speculate that she is with OM. For your child custody case you need some proof. The digital tape recorder in her car up under the seat may give you something to at least confront her with (not the tape itself just the things you heard on the tape as if you had a P.I. cause you never reveal the tape as it may not be legal in your state especially if her car is in her name).

Another thing...WS's use threats as manipulation. If OM is going to burn through his money to support WW in a legal battle so be it. Call her bluff...she has no intention of battling...she wants...guess what?????...A SECRET SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT and she will attempt anything to manipulate you to get it.

IMO if she does not return tonight you should get the kids ready tomorrow bright and early and get out. Take the kids to your mom's or another relative and just be gone. Do not answer you cell the first time and then just pretend that life is great when you do talk to her. Now longer consult her when you handle your kids (but she should always consult you and never take kids to sister's again). Set up your recorder at the house if you have one and see what and who she talks to later but you just try to enjoy a day out with your kids (or by yourself if your mom will sit...go see a movie and give yourself a break). WW needs to see that you are OK with or without her...that you are strong and able to continue and manage 2 kids without her and SHE GETS TO LOG ZERO time with the kids this weekend of abandonment.

Get an attorney on Monday morn.

I saw you took 1/2 of the checking/Savings. Why not all of it???? It is marital money and you will need it to take care of 2 kids. Your reasoning is to protect the family, wife included. Place her half in a double signature account maybe????. Ask your attorney.

No more divorce/custody talk...stay on the marriage and ignore the fogtalk.

Mr. Wondering

I cherish every moment I'm with my kids!! I'm documenting EVERYTIME SHE LEAVES FOR OVERNIGHT!! She didn't even bother to provide dinner for the kids! Din't even ask! Folks, I've followed a lot of stories on this board, but my WW is so fogged, it's unbelievable!!!

She was overweight when she was an adolescent and young adult. She lost alot of weight, just recently, and went from 190 to 150. Coupled with 2 kids, both working, a large home/yard, a lot of time is consumed with little for us. This was the setup. The A took place, and, voila, here comes the rewriting of marital history. She always had self esteem issues, way back when, but this new found beauty, has left me in the dust. And the OM is a dirbag (see story above). I'm going to fight with all my might!! Let her make the move!!!!

BTW, how's your betrayed diet coming. I dropped 20 lbs last spring (got some of it back over thanksgiving and probably some more soon over Christmas).

Are you not interested in the Recorder thing or are you just uncomfortable posting it. If you have questions you can email me at the address below. It's really for your protection. I had a friend whose crazy wife started beating herself up and called the cops on him...luckily he was able to show them the ziplock bag full of assorted prescription drugs she was illegally taking to convince them she needed hospitalization.

See ya tomorrow.

Mr. W

Well, WW and I were "civil" this morning. But I get the sense this is all fake with her. I know her intentions are to contact an attorny sometime this week. I got a digital recorder, but nothing revealing so far. I think she is scared to do what she is saying she's going to do, she has always been a conflict avoider/"make everyone else happy" type person.

She stayed home last night.

Don't have much to report, other than she knows her Dad knows, and that I told him. She reacted too calmly for my liking. She cried and rubbed my back as I told her I would agree to her terms for the LS. I did this to take the pressure off, but still will be talking with my new Lawyer next week. He may very well inform me to take the deal. With the X-mas season coming up, I am as down as I've been in weeks. My life is so out of my control, that it is scary. Our marriage, IMO, is not recoverable, ever. She is so addicted to OM, and has so much resentment toward me for being an impediment to her happiness, that she won't possibly look at me with any respect again.

(((((mywifeilove)))))


Mywifeilove - Okay, time for a little "tough love" talk with YOU. So please don't take offense.

By way of background, let me simply say "I see your "Our marriage, IMO, is not recoverable, ever. She is so addicted to OM, and has so much resentment toward me for being an impediment to her happiness, that she won't possibly look at me with any respect again," and RAISE with my wife's continuous 6 year affair and acceptance of a marriage proposal from her OM on the "it's impossible to recover from an affair, no limit poker game." 3.5 years later, we are recovered and she is "in love" with me.

First things first. Your wife IS having a current and ongoing affair and NOTHING you do or say will "register" with her yet. A CRISIS is going to have to be precipitated before their is any movement. So you need to ADD to your "plan" that you marriage is ALREADY over and that what you are fighting for is a change to resurrect, Phoenix-like", a better, more-loving marriage from the ashes of the one that she ended.

Spine, backbone, standing on God's principles and the COVENANT of marriage are what YOU need to embrace in order to withstand the verbal and emotional onslaught that a WS caught in the throes of "THE FOG" will unleash in order to "force" you to accept her terms and desires.

Remember, there can BE no 3rd party, other than God, in a marriage or you don't have a marriage. She has already brought a 3rd party into the marriage, totally against your "permission" or "consent." So, in effect, she has used the OM to "rape" you against your will.

This "mental state" that a WS enters is often referred to as an "Alien Abduction." The person you see "looks physically like" your wife of "olden days," but the "Thing" that inhabits her and talks for her and acts for her is NOT the person you loved and married. You are fighting against "that Thing," not your wife. Consider it an "infection," if you will, that left untreated will destroy her. You love her too much to stand idly by and watch it, NOW that you KNOW what is happening. You will "do what is necessary" to see that she receives the needed treatments that can lead to a cure, but there are NO guarantees of recovery. The ONLY thing that is CERTAIN is that IF the treatment is NOT attempted (and committed to for the LONG haul needed), she WILL die, the marriage WILL die, and the "disease" will win.

I didn't like the idea of "giving up" without a fight, and I suspect from what you have written that you don't either.

I remember too well the "dark days" you are enduring right now. Some of what you are going to do is going to be very hard for you to do, but you MUST do it if the goal is to get the affair to end and recovery of your marriage to be attempted.

You have started doing some of those "tough things," so be encouraged that you starting down the right path. You MUST protect your assests and the children's assets from the "alien." They will be their for your wife, too, should she return once the alien is banished.

Do NOT agree to the separation terms in order to gain agreement to marriage counseling. Marriage Counseling WILL NOT WORK if an affair is active, and it IS. The affair must end FIRST. Marriage Counseling can, and should be, a REQUIREMENT that you establish for recovery when she finally decides to end the affair and attempt recovery.

But understand that the WS is "in control" of the affair and the BS is "in control" of the recovery. Your marriage, like mine was, is already OVER. She HAS CHOSEN that reality and has told you through her actions that "you have no say in the matter." Likewise, if she wants "back into" the marriage, she will not "dictate the terms," you will.

I know all that sounds a bit harsh and cold, but right now you have NO chance to make any Love Bank deposits or to show the fulfilment of Emotional Needs to your wife. SHE has been abducted and you must first fight and defeat that "thing" that has control of her.

God bless.

P.S. If you happen to have been a fan of Star Gate, think of her current state as being controlled by a Gould. Your wife is still in there, but can't control herself right now. The "emotion Gould" has taken control and is in FULL Taker mode, concerned only about what IT wants. Your fight is with the "IT," not your wife. Yes, the body is the same, but you are fighting to "release" your wife from captivity.

Thanks, Forever! I intend on being the best Dad I can be, and fight for their stability and home. I'm not sure my case is a strong one, and am a bit leary of what my WW would pull in order to file for D. Mental cruelty? I'd like to see her prove it, unless she makes up stuff.

I'm the mental cruelty case!! What if my lawyer says to strike first?? Should I?? I'm supposed to be about MB, but wouldn't striking first give me a better shot at protecting my kids and faimily?

So many very important decisions to be made!!

Other comments, very much needed!!!

ditto FH ... killer post.


Her "happiness"???????????? Look at the statistics...relationships resulting from an illicit affair have a 3% chance of surviving 5 years. Within 5 years every divorced WS has regrets over how they exited their original marriage AND WISHED THEY HAD HANDLED THINGS DIFFERENTLY. If you love this woman you are the only sane person available right now to save her from the inevitable misery she has created for herself. It is well documented that she will suffer a lifetime of regret and that is not even considering the regret you will have for giving up when all was not necessarily lost. Finally, your children will then be required to go back and forth between 2 regretful and/or bitter parents - both broken by a failed marriage.

You see whether or not your marriage recovers the two of you will need to come to peace with each other at some time or another. Not only for your sakes but for the children. By utilizing the MB principles YOU at least have the opportunity to either save your marriage or leave the marriage with self-respect and the dignity from the knowledge that you did all you could to save it. With MB YOU can come to peace with WW and move forward as a healthly individual for yourself and your kids.

Changing focus. Giving up hope actually can help your situation. Many a BS here has been in your position where they determined things were hopeless only to achieve marital recovery later. How does that help, you ask??? Because assuming it is over you have nothing left to lose. You can refocus your efforts onto yourself as opposed to obsessing over what your WW does. You stop acting like a desparate, needy, jealous, controlling husband. You finally can begin to become the husband your wife may be attracted back to. You take control of your life and your choices. WW has no more power to control and manipulate you because all her cards are have been played.

As long as one marital partner continues to fight for the marriage, the marriage remains savable. Will it be easy, no. Is it worth it? I guarantee it. You will come out of this a better man regardless of what happens to your marriage.

Stick with MB...what have you got to lose and you might just SAVE her from the UNHAPPINESS I spoke of on the horizon????

Mr. Wondering

FH & Mr. Wondering, those were excellent posts.

Mywife and I are in very similar situations and I can understand why he would want to give up and move on. It is the path of least resistance...at this moment.

Mywife, if your kids were old enough to reason with you, do you think they would want you to give up? Remember there are two other people here who are very young and who are relying heavily on you right now. They can't rely on your WW since she is fogged in her current state. Just try to remember that when things seem hopeless.

As FH and Mr W have stated, your WW wants you to give up. It will make her life so much easier if you do.

The OM is not perfect and he will likely LB if given time.

Just as FH stated, there is not much you can do right now to defog her mind. You just have to fight and struggle through this period.

I'm right there with you my friend so stay strong and keep fighting.

Thanks to all for the encouragement. HTW, I feel the same pain as you. If I could meet you I would, and I would hug you and cry with you. These are the toughest parts of our lives, something that, thankfully, not everyone has to experience. It is a challenge beyond anyone's imagination to cope with so many life altering decisions at once. The future, which seemed so set just a few short months ago, has become a distant memory, replaced by a void of unknown. Resiliency is stretch beyond what I could of imagined, but I'm here.

I will carry out a Plan B, but knowing my W's past of going to one relationship to another, she will most likely adapt to her new one, and struggle with it through whatever he deals her. But I will pray, and be good to my kids.

Thanks folks. Keep the comments coming.

I presume you have read Dazeds' thread. Read it again and pay particular attention to what he said Dr. Harley said to him. He is the professional. We are merely his cheerleaders (you've got to see Lemonman do a Hurkie and his back tucks are outstanding).

Just today Dazed posted about filing a LS agreement after the holidays. If you can't hold on to your love for her than that may be an option for you. HOWEVER, notice how Steve Harley really pushed Dazed to continue Plan A to allow his WW to see, believe and internalize the changes Dazed made. It is a MB principle that Plan B is ineffective unless preceeded by an effective Plan A.

Please try not to make emotional decisions. They are rarely for the best. This situation will not fix itself overnight much to all of our chagrin (sp?).

Have patience and keep posting & reading. We will help you through this as best we can. I strongly recommend calling the Harley's if you can afford it.

Mr. Wondering

Well, part of what my WW says is asked was "don't you want someone who wants to be affectionate to you" meaning, it was usually me initiating SF, and our "affection" outside of sex, was limited to good morning or good bye pecks or after work pecks. And since I can't improve on that now, how do I go about making those changes????

Fogspeak!!!

Is "affection" high on your Emotional Needs list? I suspect not. It may be high on your wife's list and she is projecting HER need onto you. That's part of why you do the EN questionaire and study how to understand the needs and HOW the person with the need perceives the WAY that you meet, or don't meet, the given EN.

The "short answer" to her question is "yes," don't you want that yourself also?

I'll bet when you were dating, you both made a point of being "affectionate," especially once you both realized that you like the other person and might consider a lifetime marriage with each other. BUT, until you reached that "commitment level," I'll be the "affection showing" was kept under tight control so as to not "chase off" the other person. It began with a "friendship" and "dating," and the rest grew over time and as you became more familiar with each other.

Now, you asked: "And since I can't improve on that now, how do I go about making those changes???? "

Do you want the "human" answer, the biblical answer, or perhaps some of both?

Let's start with the most obvious...YOU plan A. That means that you work on the changes in yourself that are needed that make you a "attractive catch." You reorient your thinking about marriage into a "godly triangle," not the sort of unholy triangle your wife has cooked up.

.........God
........../\
........./--\
......../----\
.Wife/_____\Husband


As both husband and wife begin to walk more closely with God as both their personal Lord and as the center of their marriage, they WILL grow closer to each other. It begins with accepting God as the one who is "on the throne" and who is sovereign, not self, and surrendering one's life to God as Lord and Master.

God bless.

OK, have decided to continue Plan A until WW moves out.

I called her at work, asked her how her ride in was (it was snowing hard). I then told her about a meeting I had at work that involved me doing things that I get more enjoyment out of, and are appreciated by my supervisors, for my expertise. Then an email exchange between my WW and I:

WW:
"I just wanted to tell you that I am happy for you that you did something you are proud of."

Me:
" I guess I'm wouldn't classify it as "being proud" but more "hey, something more that I enjoy". Proud more describes marrying you, and having our children."

Any thoughts? Is this a nice response, considering all that has transpired in the last week?

Thanks for any comments.

Bump, please!

Sure it is a nice response...not desparate or needy sounding and I am glad you left it short and sweet without some long diatribe about your relationship. You must keep doing these type things in Plan A without going overboard with "I love you's". However, even your stroke above was probably lost on a wayward spouse. Unfortunately, her reaction yesterday was likely nothing more than an eyeroll. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Her email did not say she was proud of you which may have been a tad better. I think she was just trying to be nice to you out of guilt for the hurt she knows she's inflicting upon you. It may be an OK sign that at least she took notice of the nice phone call you made checking on her safe arrival at work. It was a reciprocal acknowledgement (not really appreciation) of your Plan A efforts, nothing more.

As you are coming to see, a WW is motivated by one thing... OM. Anything you do or say that enables or otherwise promotes or ignores her affair is encouraged, acknowledged and/or accepted whereas anything you say or do which seemingly attacks OM and the affair is met with hostility, disrespect and aggression. I forget the saying on MB but it's something like believe 50% of what you see a WS do and even less of what you hear a WS say. She's in the fog and you can either join her there and attempt to control her and the situation by trying to decipher everything she says or does OR you can ignore it and control only yourself and your actions REGARDLESS of the what WW says or does. This is your choice and one reason why the MB plan is so successful and healthy...you take control back of YOUR LIFE.


Any update or do things calm down during the workweek? Many a WS will escalate the conflict as the weekend approachs in order to manipulate time with OM (i.e.-they manufacture conflict in order to blame shift as to why they need to leave the house).

Mr. Wondering