I'm glad to hear your mom is feeling better and has gotten the medical treatment she need. Its a reminder how precious life is.

You are in my prayers.

Just saw my Mom at lunch. She looks great!! They actually told her that they won't know definitively if the was no heart damage for 2 weeks. But just seeing her, esentially normal, after 24 hours, is wonderful!! First really good feeling I've had in over 3 months.

Now onto my WW. She seems to haven't missed a beat! Starting to pack little items, cleaning out closets of toiletries. Still haven't done an extensive background check on om, but will. As noted in posts from yesterday, a police friend has done a preliminary check and said om has had alot of arrests in his past, but couldn't provide details. Did say that this guy is a true dirtbag.

Do I just let it go, and have WW discover this on her own? Is she so "deep" into him that even if he discloses all this, that she will remain with him, on a path of her own destruction? And what about my kids?? This is like out of a movie!!! Do I not sign any LS, and force WW to file for D under some trumped up charges??? (They'd have to be!!)

I vote for getting details and leaking it so your WW finds out, but not from you.

Just talked to a friend. I gave him info on om, and he says, he guarentees he can get me ANYTHNG on the guy!! He's going to get the info in a few days!!

Thanks to all for the thoughts and prayers! My wife I love. From my heart and soul. My Mother I love. From my entire being!

Any update????

I assume she is still in the process of moving out but is she still trying to negotiate a LS agreement?

I suggest you tell her to get an attorney and let the attorney's handle a LS agreement. You only do marriage. If she presses you on how it needs to be in place before she moves out. Just say "I suppose it does" but repeat "I will only discuss marriage, attorneys handle LS agreements". If she is intent on moving out, most WW's will do so despite the legal ramnifications. Once she moves out she will be "abandoning" the children to you and her legal claims to custody will be weak at best. As the man you may be better off legally by dragging your feet on any LSA until she moves out. So do not tell her you refuse to sign one or will never agree to one. You're not lying either...you'd agree to 100% custody and all the assets...if she proposed that.

In summary, if she is going to leave get her to leave without any agreement in place. If you she does push for an agreement, negotiate only through an attorney and never agree to her as primary custodial parent.

Fighting for custody of the kids is not to be vindictive. It is to protect them from exposure to this illicit affair (and the influences of OM whatever you discover that might be). It is teaching them that you will stand up for what is right. Winning custody may just be the magnet which draws your WW out of this affair. The shame of losing custody is a tremdous gut wrenching blow to the WW and may draw them out of the fog.

Stick to your plan...never give up...do not concede anything. You are the only rational responsible person left in your marriage. Stay strong and patient.

Mr. Wondering

Post deleted by Mywifeilove

So he beats his spouse, drives drunk and smokes pot. And your wife sees no RED FLAGS? This is a train-wreck waiting to happen. Protect your children.

Oh, she tells me that she won't bring children near him!! That, she's not sure what she wants from OM. (she has stated that he wants a long term relationship, and she just wants to take it day by day!!)

I HAVE to protect my children from this behavior!! Lawyer time!! I just hope I have enough to keep kids with me at home!!

Strange isn't it how they can be so civil and nice one minute and disinterested and cold the next.

So she wants to take it day by day. I guess that means she wants to see if OM and her work out and if not maybe she can have you to rely on as a backup.

I'm glad to hear your mom is doing better. So your WW wanted to send her a gift? Is she under the impression that you will be her friend while she is out playing the single life? I can't believe this crap!

BTW, WW continues to email me, about just small talk things!! What is going on? Am I being manipulated so as to just sign any LS that she "thinks" I'm going to sign?

She sitting on the fence...believe it or not you do meet some of her EN's....

They all speak badly about their BS's. It is part of the WS script. Remember, OM's biggest insecurity in their relationship is the fear she will return to you. A WS must feed their OP with constant reassurance that they hate their BH, that he/she is a controlling baffoon they never loved nor care about and that OP is their "soulmate". Such comments feed the affair and are said so much that they internalize the rationalizations and justifications...hence, the fog we speak of.

I propose that when you hear such information through snooping it should help you see that. I overheard my wife tell lie upon lie about me to OM. At first, it hurt as I allowed my self-doubt and insecurities to consume me but after being on MB and understanding the situation I came to hear such comments for what they were. Baloney. Fog Talk.

Your wife can and most likely will come out of the fog someday. You only control your choices and actions. Your actions will either push her further into the affair (i.e.-the more insecure and needy you behave makes OM the more attractive alternative AND the more you L.B. the more you feed your wife's justifications and rationalizations).

You see, every affair includes a huge component of analyzing and discussing YOU. When you stop LB'ing and stick to Plan A, you throw the affairee's for a loop. They no longer have you to complain about. OM starts to get suspicious about whether he is being lied to or manipulated creating a LB atmosphere for him. The lies WW needs to tell to keep OM happy and on-board become even more outrageous. Perhaps they will start making fun of your attempts to beat out OM. This hurts to hear but it is progress.

Will the "shame" impede her return to you???? Yes and no. Withdrawal and then Recovery are difficult processes as well. First she have to internalize that all she did was wrong and not justified...that is was her mistake and her mistake alone. Then she has to face the fact that everyone knows and to make amends where she can. But ultimately it is about you and her. Nobody else cares that much. You and her will need to work these issues out together and in so doing develope a "US against the world" like mentality. In so doing you have the opportunity to develope the most intimate and better marriage than you ever dreamed possible. It can be worth it.

I also think you and I have the advantage of being in the WW/BH scenario as having a BH that "gets it" and a wife who naturally always wanted to communicate and work on their marriage it naturally makes recovery a little easier than the WH/BW situation. WH have such a tough time "getting it" and BW have a more difficult time digesting the recovery process and eventually moving forward. I am glad it was my wife that cheated as if it had been me (and it could have been given the state of our marriage) we likely would not have recovered.


Is she manipulating you? Yes and no. Your WW likely has this fantasy that everything will work out for the best for everybody. All will remain friends and life will carry on. Afterall, everyone gets divorced. Remember, she can only manipulate the willing. You likely have your radar systems working and won't fall into her traps. Later this month, when you in fact stand up to her LS proposals (through your attorney) she will likely turn to anger, threats and/or kindness to directly manipulate you to fulfill her dream of everyone just getting along. She will most definitely accuse YOU of manipulating her. It's all part of the game. That is why you develope your plan(s) and stick to them.

As far as the emails....When she offers you crumbs your Plan A says you suck them up, appreciate them, meet as many of her needs as she will allow and move forward with your plan, day by day.

I'll say this again, you will make it...most likely with your wife but you will make it.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks, Mr. W.

Just found out that OM has: been arrested for larceny in 92, assault in 98, drug possesion in 97, possesion of stolen property in 01, Couple DWI arrests in the 90's and has filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy, owes thousands in back taxes, and that's what I could find out about!! Is this a man I want around my kids? He11 no!!

Problem with WW, is that she has always been insecure about herself, but hid it well. I believe she will adapt to his lifestyle, and endure whatever he throws at her, until she finds someone else! She kissed this man, then fell "in love" with him, and then found out about him!! Nice way to meet someone. My W would have seriously call this guy a "dirtbag" before she met him. I guess the heart can cloud judgement!!

BTW, I have no arrest record. And don't drink, gamble, or hit anyone. I come home every night, to my kids and was SO proud of our family. And so was my W!! She chose unwisely!!!!!!!!!!

Nice. Looks like we've got our OM of the year. They details of those arrests, especially the assualt one should be really interesting to the judge deciding your custody case.

As far as you are concerned...Does this not make you feel more confident? You have no reason to act needy or desparate. YOU ARE THE BETTER MAN AND ALTERNATIVE. If you play out a good Plan A and Plan B you should defeat this affair. The fog is thick, my friend. Just get the full police reports and leave them lying around for wife to see. Maybe act like you left them out accidentally. You do not want to be perceive as the one trying to "educate" your WW. Let the facts speak for themselves and let OM have to justify his prior criminal behavior to WW. Likely WW thinks she can fix him...that he was in a rough patch in life and now he is no longer that criminal. Your WW is deluded to think that the leopard has changed his spots. She's accepted his history because he makes her feel sooooo good about herself. No wonder...he is a loser.

I hope you are paying attention to Dazed's thread. His wife just revealled to him how jealous the OM is of Mr. Dazed. The OM in your situation is likely even more insecure. He is no where near the man you are and he knows it. If you stick to your plan you will drive him nuts and he will end up LB'ing your wife back to you or better yet, dump your wife and leave himself (in the pursuit of his next less troublesome conquest). Do not make things easy for OM...he is the weakest link in their relationship (even weaker than a fogged out WW).

Good snooping. You have helped your custody battle immensely. Keep up the journal also and try to get used to doing everything for your kids.

Keep your chin up.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks, again. WW I think knows about most of the arrests. See, she met him, got feeling for him, then found out about him, ....so unhealthy. She has accepted his flaws and now has lowered herself so much, NO WAY she would have become involved with a guy like this if she knew his history first.

WW overheard me talking to my S last night. She was so angry at my sister because she could hear her through the phone yelling F her this and F her that. My sister and her were very close before this, and my W had help my sister through a divorce herself. Now my WW seems to feel that my sister should return the favor!!!! But my sister sees what WW is doing to me by remaining in the house and continuing the A. My sister is getting frustrated with me, that I don't just throw her out and get angry. I told sister that it would serve no purpose. I guess I need to back off on letting my sister in on all the hurt I'm going through.

BTW, more bad news. My uncle (mother's brother) was getting ready to come over to visit my mother after her heart attack......well, he had a heart attack himself, and died!!! I'm living in a life that has become so close to ******, that God is so distant I can't see him.

Comments again, please!

Alright, I'm still struggling with denying my ww wife's soon to be LS papers she is supposed to draft, and saying no way, you'll have to file for D. She assumes I'm just going to sign. She's already starting to take things over to her new house she's renting. She has ordered a washer and dryer, furniture, and other big ticket items from cashing in one of her retirement funds. She plans on being out by Jan. 1st, but I don't think there'll be any chance of her giving me the LS papers to sign by then.

Can she take the kids to her new place without a LS in place? Can I stop her? I don't want my kids around this om....ever!! Is that possible? What are my chances of full custody? Should I file for D first on adultry, or mental cruelity? I know against MB pricipals, but WW is making very poor choices, and it very well could affect my kids!! And would changing my mind now, infuriate WW to the point that any chance that we might have after this A breaks up, would be lost? Or "JUST PROTECT THE KIDS"!!?

PLEASE HELP!! This is ready to come to a head quickly!!

I would let your wife know right now that you will not sign the LS papers. Tell her you will protect your family from this OM as much as possible. He is obviously a career criminal - probably an alcholic and drug addict.

I would see an attorney to keep him away from your children.

Have you been to a lawyer yet? You need to know what your rights are and what you need to do to be custodial parent. You need to make a plan for childcare. You need to document why YOU should be custodial parent, I'm sure OM criminal background will give you leverage. Was he ever convicted of any crimes? Felonies? You may not want the D but you need to protect your rights and your kids. Be prepared. As I just posted to Hopethisworks you too need to walk softly and carry a big stick.

MWIL,

First off...cashing in her retirement savings????

If she borrowed against them that is one thing but to withdraw the money just sucks. There is a 10% penalty and then you have to pay the taxes on the $$$$. That money will no longer be available to divide as marital assets and if you divorce she will still likely go after 50% of your retirement savings. Next April 15th you may consider filing as Married Filing Separately so she incurs those tax ramnifications. Something to think about in the coming months.

As far as the L.S. agreement I would advise you to not sign it. But it is your choice whether to tell her now that you won't (as Believer recommends) or to stall her with "I'll take it to my lawyer" and then sitting on it with a few excuses while she thinks you are in agreement and moves out. If you tell her now she may just file a divorce petition to protect herself on the custody dispute before she actually moves out. As a woman she would have an advantage to get what she wants (not necessarily that she would win) if she files before she moves out. Once she is out, you may then file for full custody and request monetary support for the children from WW as she has "abandoned" the marital home and left you with the children. You may also include a request for a restraining order versus OM. This will shine an unfavorable light upon the whole affair and likely in the end destroy it.

This fight is not a love buster. It is the consequences of HER unhealthy, immoral choices. She can stop it at any time by merely coming home and recommitting to her marriage. You are in affair busting mode and will not get your marriage back until you have busted up her illicit affair. Fighting her legally, by and through your attorney, has the advantage of "protecting your children" AND potentially busting up the affair. Yes, she will be infuriated. Yes, she will swear that your actions will make reconciliation impossible. Yes, you will likely doubt yourself BUT it is the only way. It is the stong way. It is "man'in up" and taking resposibility for your family no matter what the outcome and it is admirable. Your wife may pull herself out of the fog one day and wake up to see the strong man you have become. That is her choice and her battle. Your job is to just be that strong man and patiently wait to see if your marriage will get another chance.

The one thing I can guarantee you is that if you do nothing, if you sit back and accept the manipulative crumbs, if you enable her easy exit and give her money, your attention, and access to the kids (even with a promise of no exposure to OM), that nothing will change. You will have to wait 6 month to 2 years for the affair to end and by that time you'll be done and moved on anyway. Your fight is today. I can not be put off.

Go see an attorney. Let him know you are fighting for your marriage. That you are not intending to destroy your wife but destoy her affair.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering