Bump for some replies, please!! You folks are awesome!!!

From what I have read and heard from my WW this sounds quite typical. It doesn't mean you need to bend your boundaries though which you have not done.

Do you think there will come a time where you will go back into Plan B if you find that no progress is being made? I worry that your WW will like being "friends" with you so she can cake eat. This is one of the fears I have in my situation as well.

Oh, most definitely!!! This can't go on forever, it'll be just recognizing when my love is really near it's end!!! But I really think this latest Plan A (out of house) was absolutely necessary!!

Good luck Hope.

bump to see how you're doing...?

I'll give a more comprehensive update later.

But here's a quickie....WW and I talked on the phone for 2 consecutive hours yesterday....and pretty much all of it was R talk....initiated by her!!!!

More stuff about how she knows she will ultimately hurt OM. And how all they do is argue all the time, and that she is now saying he's a "big boy" and knows that he (and her) should have never been!! She says she can sense that he knows that the "shoe is going to drop" at anytime. And that he "fully expects" this. Whatever!!!

I felt comfortable enough to ask her a few, deeper questions, though I will not trust her answers 100% (she is still a WW).

The "oxycontin" question and his use and her possible abuse, was brought up by me!!!! She in no way got upset, just politely adimently denied any introduction to that aweful "heroin in a pill". Have no idea whether to believe her or not. But she seemed sincere.....but we all know WS's and their abilities!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll update more later......
MWIL

Well, it's been 17 days since my last update.

Lots of stuff happening....with WW and OM. It is on life support....and WW is still struggling with her life. In an email exchange just yesterday....an "out of the blue" question came up:

WW: "Would you ever sell the house?"

Me: "That's an odd question...out of the blue. Yes...I'd sell the house...for a number of reasons that could come up.......why you ask????????????????????????"

WW: "Just wondering. If anything ever changed between us I don't know if I could move back in there, if I had the option at the time, that is."

Me: "That would be a decision "we" would discuss. I certainly, at this point, would be willing to keep in play ALL options that would aid "us" in recovery......................but certainly all hypothetical at this point. And if it is even entering your mind, we'd have to sit down and discuss "our plan" for the rest of our family's life!"

WW: "Well, I was just curious. I can't tell you how much "mine" and "me" my new little house feels that I never felt at the house. And it was not becuase there was no love or family. My reasons were just very different for buying it than yours were. And I know it was up for discussion at the time, there is no dispute there."

Me: "No, <WW>, our reasons were very similar......it was a GOOD deal....central to all our scattered family...and a nice big yard. If you were implying that I "wanted" to live there....that was a wrong assumption....I always wanted what YOU wanted, I wanted to ALWAYS make you proud and happy.....it just was hard to get that out of you a lot of the times........."

WW: "Because <BS>, it's worth at least talking about. I just never felt like the house was mine. I don't expect you to understand that. And I do not say it was not a "worthwhile" investment. I just felt very very very "tied" to it for your family and not because it was what I wanted. I never said you were not willing to work with me, I am not laying blame here. That is just one obstacle. I used to feel like I owed it to your mother not to disappoint her like that. Well, I don't have the same strong desire I used to as far as that goes. I just wonder where you are with some things, thats all. And you dont' even have to answer me if you don't want to."

Me: "Wondering where I am with something?......hmmmm....depends on the time of day...I guess."

WW: "Well, I felt a sense of resentment for MY feelings and that was no-one elses fault. I was just a ticking time bomb. And at my age, I won't make the same mistakes I have made to get myself where I was. I spent SOOOOOO much of my time stressing out about what other people thought of me. Now, I just don't care. Not in a bad way but I am done losing sleep if I want to live in a way that does not please every single person I know. I think I can have that attitude but still be the same caring person. I just see what all that stress and extra effort to please everyone got me. NADA"

Me: "And "caring" person you are....just not easy to do during your "two worlds". And I know that you can be that same person....just with some "healthy" boundaries in place for yourself......you just need to learn to stick to those boundaries...so that you don't fall victim again of "taking care of everyone..at all costs!"

WW: "Yeah, I know. I psychoanalyze myself ALLLLLL the time. Good thing I at least KNOW all of my flaws and am not just figuring them out. Right now that might be too much!! I am learning to take care of myself. I am also learning WHO to care about. Not everyone in my life has deserved the energy they have been given. And thats OK, too. Its MY problem to deal with and if nothing else I have figured THAT out."

Any opinions, comments or suggestions????? BTW, the "house" was my parents that we purchased back in '98.

Clearly overtures there mwil...and you're still "happy" with where things are and "taking it slow?"

What is your plan here?? Other than Plan A which appears to be working....

I'll get personal...no "physical contact between the two of you, yet?" Are you ready for her to do that? I know when mine did I refused....saying it is not a good idea.......

Are you ready for "recovery- reconciliation"? Cause that is what is going on...you will need to communicate your boundaries soon...some she may not like...

Things continue to go well for you. Can't believe she is still dragging this out but I remain hopeful she will be home soon.

As far as the house, though some of it is likely a fogged out rationalization and justification, I understand her feelings. My wife drove a car my mother used to drive. We got a tremendous deal on it. It made perfect sense. However, everytime we saw my parents my dad would want to pop the hood, look inside, check the mileage, ask about oil changes, etc. It just annoyed her and thus me. It was not worth the deal in the end.

I recommend that as you two negotiate reconciliation you could discuss selling the house and moving. Perhaps it is a little late to get it ready right now for the summer selling season and you don't want to fully commit to moving and reconciling your marriage at the same time. The recent stress has been overwhelming however, you are willing to fully 100% committ to working on the house with her and perparing it for sale next spring/summer. The fixing the house up to maximize it's sale potential will be a wonderful distraction as well as a mutual activity you two can do while you restore the feelings into your relationship. Etc.

My first inclination was to tell you to put up a for sale sign tomorrow to demonstrate your willingness to listen to her and take immediate action for her. However, moves are stressfull on ALL and should be planned out and NOT undertaken without long thought out family consideration. Besides...you may be surprised once she's home and you guys are recovered that the move really was not what was actually important to her just the feeling that it was her home. With upgrades, some remodeling, etc. she may just feel that way about the home you have. This "sell it now" incentive could be used as a flame under her butt right now. If she is not game on waiting then tell her if she wants that move this summer then she must get her butt home by June 1st and help you get it ready for sale immediately. If she waffles you got a year to sell it...either way it's her choice not YOU pressuring her.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Thanks, SMOMW!! No physical contact...hugs...and still a few tears from her.

I invited her over last night for a couple hours. R talk commenced with her, right away, initiated by her. She seems to be slowly taking more responsibility in all this, but only a few minor steps in hinting at the future with us.

I know exactly what you mean by laying down some boundaries!!! Obviously, they would have to be introduced slowly, but firmly.

Her perception of OM is slowly changing from this "really good guy deep down" to "He and I CAN'T have a future together, we are in 2 different spots in life."

Yes I'm happy!!! I look forward to the old things in my life with about 80-90% of the enthusiasm I once did!! And I'm almost completely tapered off the AD's I was on!!! (Effexor XR.....nasty stuff to get off!!!!! Doing it SLOWLY)

So, my Plan?????? Continue meeting her needs for conversation (It used to be something she got from OM....now all their conversations deal with them and "their" problems!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) and domestic unity (a unified approach to our children)

I rarely initiate phone calls or emails. I'm not sure how I would transfer to a true Plan B if I just got sick of this, or lost my desire for WW.

But I'm good!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Looking forward to the late spring/early summer ahead!!!

Thanks again....hope things are well on your end!!!

MWIL

Thanks Mr. W!

The house is a beautiful home/lawn in a rural setting, and I DO believe she is speaking in somewhat a "fogged" tounge wrt this. So I won't be putting up a for sale anytime soon, but if I were to "see" some actions from her that demonstrate a desire to reconcile....then ALL is on the table. Her words are just "words".....for she is still Wayward.

I was getting concerned you were in lala land...until I saw that..keep your feet grounded......best of luck)...

No need to worry! I'm very well grounded. I understand to some extent the process of what WW is going through. Recognizing when there is an opportunity for "us" is the hard part. And knowing when it may just not work out.

Well, I just asked the WW out to dinner for the first time since she moved out........she accepted the offer! Not completely sure of where her and OM stand right now.

But if anyone could offer some nice suggestions as to some add ons for the dinner....I'd appreciate it!

She is drawing closer to me.....and I won't let fear or hope guide me....it'll be ME!!!

MWIL,
When is your date?
What do you mean by "add ons"?
--SC

June 2nd.

Add-ons??? Some things "special" before or maybe after dinner. Something other than just "dinner". I would plan on taking her to the nicest rest. in the area.

MWIL,

If it were me, I wouldn't over do it on the first date. Let her keep guessing and pulling closer to you. Give and then pull back a little to keep her interested.

One thing is for sure, if you are to recover M the OM must leave the picture soon. Let me know if you would like me to take a hammer to his knee caps <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I would consider NOT going to the nicest restuarant in the area. To dramitic and likely quiet. I would try to think of a loud fun place to go. Perhaps a place you went to years ago that is familiar to both of you and reminesce (sp?) of happier times but not overty so. Kinda like prom, if you try to hard to make it over the top you'll be disappointed and your disappointment may just infect the evening. If you two are laughing and interacting with other poeple their is just more "things" to talk about than the relationship. AFTER, the fun, sometimes you'll have the opportunity to really talk (I she initiates it) but otherwise just be fun loving. If she asks why your being this way you say:

"I don't know, I just want to have fun with you, I feared I'd never have another date with you and just in case this one, or the next one, or the next one is my last date with you I want to remember each one fondly and treasure them as opposed to making it all serious. I adore you and I treasure "us", however, if we are going to recover...wouldn't you agree we've got time for seriousness?...tonight is not that time...now, let's have a chugging contest...where's my beer."

In the alternative, a very fine dining establishment with entertainment. You don't want a quiet place where you'll inevitably feel awkward and in contrived conversation.

Whatever you do, your assuredness and confidence is what attracted her to you years ago, find it and utilize it again. Don't allow ANYTHING she says to suck you into a debate or distract from enjoying her company...as you know, she is still foggy.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

MWIL,
I was thinking the same thing as HTW. Make YOURSELF the bonus. You're getting really good at the ol' "adorable and charming, but strong and slightly detatched" routine. Give it all you've got that night. Make sure you look and smell good. Have a couple of funny stories ready... and then tell her how happy it makes you to hear her laugh... how stunning she looks when she smiles. (I like that word, "stunning". Mr. C said it to me recently and it hit the intended mark <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

Are you sure the "best restaurant in town" is the best choice for this? It may be. I don't know what she likes. But if it were me, I'd put more stock in "comfort" than "price tag" if you know what I mean. Again, it's all personal prference. Just something to think about.

It sounds to me as though she's been doing some real reflection and introspection, which is good.

I'm glad you're not automatically dismissing her statement about the house as fogspeak. It amazes me how often that's said around here - as if WS's and newly FWS's have absolutely NO valid complaints or concerns. (Seems to me it's a bit of a DJ to assume that's the case. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />).

I could be projecting here, but I bet she's TERRIFIED right now, MWIL. Terrified of making a move... of making a mistake. Like someone on a beach on a sweltering hot day... desperately wanting to jump into the cool water... but terrified of what might be lurking below the surface. She sees you have made changes. She knows she has feelings for you. But she's afraid neither will last -- your changes or her current feelings. She's not totally sure yet whether she wants to come home. But she's also afraid you might reject her if she came right out and suggested it. And she's afraid time will run out before she's made a decision. She has gathered enough courage to dip her toe in the water... maybe even stick both feet in... but every time she considers jumping all the way in... her fear gets the best of her and she pulls back. She's not ready yet... but she's getting there, I think. Again, I can't be sure about any of that, but it does seem to fit with her actions.

Good luck on your date. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

--SC

Hope, Mr. W

Awesome!!!! You both are so right!! And I've got the perfect spot for us to go!!! She loves to sing Kareoke (sp?) and there is a place not too far away that mimics a place that we went all the time (It's closed now).

Just have fun.....GOT IT!!! Should I get her drunk and make my "move" like way back when????? (Just kidding! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

SC,

Again, AWESOME insight! And you hit the nail on the head, she said just the other day "I know that I just don't ever want to hurt you again, and I would need to be sure. I'm terrified of not knowing how I got to where I am."

So, essentially, she is looking for a path....I think....and I just want to provide one....without too much seriousness at first....and my boundaries will need to be injected VERY cautiously...but once done...STICK TO THEM!!!