Thanks, Hope and SC. Her reply to my last email:

"inner peace."

I'm thinking I should just let this go. No reply. Thoughts?....

Yup, let it go. Or maybe just... "Yes, I wish that for you too." By the way MWIL, I don't know your whole story... just the most recent stuff... but let me say that I think you've been doing a brilliant job (A) finding your own way through this whole mess, and (B) making yourself almost irresistable. I think A probably had to come before B. Good work!
--SC

SC, thank-you.

It ABSOLUTELY was A before B. Looking back just days after D-Day, I was lost, such a hit to the soul of me. I'm not sure it is possible to do a good "non-doormat" plan A until some self healing is done by the BS.

Now, knowing the dynamics of affairs, it is oh so clear now!! And whether I'm with my W or someone else 5 years from now, I have confidence in myself and the ability to nurture relationships in a healthy way, so as to keep me attractive, and me attracted to them.

I did reply with "I wish that for you too, <WW>."

...Oh...she just replied...with: "why did you ask, what did you think I was going to say?"

SC, she WAS fishing!!! Comments???

I agree with SC...let it go for now. The inner peace she is seeking is because she still has feelings for you and they are probably confusing to her.

Maybe you can tell her that since she's your friend you like to know what's on her mind and what makes her tick.

Keep it light...your doing fine.

Oh.... she's a tricky one.

Can you think of something silly that you know she would think is funny?

Like... for me... Mr Cookie might write something like: "I was so sure you were wishing for a roast beef dinner. Oops <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!"
(b/c I generally don't eat meat).

Or you could turn it around and say...

"I didn't have any idea. That's why I asked."

--SC

SC....too ironic....I basically only eat meat!!!! (Yes, a hard core low-carber for 7 years!!)

I replied : "I wasn't sure what you meant by 'I wish.....'"

Then she replied: "oh. Well, I think you know what I wish. That things were different and untainted and like they were a year ago - at least then I did not know any better. I am not sure which is the worse."

Then I replied: "I can't imagine the inner turmoil that you obviously are going through. You have shown so much strength though, and your conflicts within yourself WILL be resolved....I'm sure of that. A little help from God doesn't hurt either."

Continued thoughts???????

Her latest reply:

"I know they will too George. But it kind of feels like I am in a movie where a huge atomic bomb has gone off and the earth is wiped out. And I am in some underground hole afraid to peek out and see whats left!!"

MWIL,

Wow! I'm actually a better mind reader than I thought. When she said "I wish..." my first thought was "she wishes she could turn back time." I KNEW IT!!!

Still, I think she's trying to bait you. Again, be careful. You might want to let it lie now. But a good line to have in your back pocket might be something like: "We can't go back in time. We can only move forward from where we are right now. And the possibilities are endless." Kinda vague. Could imply a global "we" or a "we" as in Mr and Mrs MWIL. Puts the ball back in her court with the implied question: "...so what do YOU want?" (But don't ask that direct question just yet. Maybe soon. But not yet!)

I'll tell you what though, you are definately on her brain. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

--SC

Hmmmmmm,
How about: "WW, be brave! Take a peek. It may not be as bad as you think."

Yeah....the problem is that I'm not in her heart.....yet.....or just way deep in there.

Just sent her a light email to break the seriousness of the latest exchanges. Earlier, I had invited her over for dinner (steak, salad, asparagus) but she has plans. So I just emailed her:

"Actually, <WW>, I lied.......I know what you were wishing for......that instead of offering some steaks and asparagus....you wished for me to offer chicken wing pizza!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />"

Good. Very good.

Her reply:

"Thank you for trying to keep my sense of humor in tact."

I'm leaving it at that. I gain a bit of insight as to what she is going through with every exchange like this.

Thank-you, SC for your insight! Your perspective on these things is invaluable!!!!!!
MWIL

Bump for more input, please!

Hang in there guy, I think you are gonna be alright either way.

Lem

MIL,

Sorry to rain on your parade, but notwithstanding your claims to the contrary, I think that your hopes with respect to WW are too high and unwarranted right now. It is my firm belief that your WW is a cake eater MAJEUR and she will continue the arrangement she has with you and OM as long as she can get away with it.

You are doing a great Plan A, and you are doing everything right. I am not referring to your Plan A. Rather I am referring to your mental state and your feelings. My point is not that you should stop Plan A, but that you should guard your heart and hope more closely with this. Your W (not WW) may come back, but it’s not anytime soon IMO even though some signs may suggest otherwise.

So yes, upon further reflection, I think I really disagree with Mr. Wondering on this, although I agree with him most of the time. Mr. Wondering is a good guy, but as we say in law this is one issue where reasonable minds may differ.

Be more circumspect with your heart while hoping for the best.

UVA,

I couldn't agree with you more....hopes???? I have NO expectations....none!!! And this is why I believe I can continue to allow her "cake eating". But I believe my Plan A really started a few weeks after she left. If I had gone to Plan B back when she moved out, I believe, along with SH, that we would have had less of a chance of recovery. I didn't end our "coexistance" very well at all, so I basically had to start from scratch, and it is showing, based on her ACTIONS. My heart does not ache....not even close to what I was going through 3 short months ago.

I believe that the timing of my withdraw (Plan B) will be critical, and not sure when to do this. As for now, I still have a desire for reconcilation, but wisdom to know that I'll be OK if that doesn't pan out.

She will need to have the perverbial "crisis", to allow her to view her past actions with a "healthy" perspective.

The cake eating won't go on forever....it can't. But hopefully I'm setting the table for a better chance at recovery, by showing her a much changed MWIL. But I am doing well!!! I am not rushing or pushing, and I am in control of my actions. Boundaries will be slowly put in place soon, and we'll see where that goes.

Thanks for the reply and advice by all!!!

MWIL

WW and I are to attend a parent/teacher conference together tonight. OM is upset, because he doesn't think it's "normal" for a seperated H and W to be so comfortable with each other. (Such a loser!!)

Starting to sound more and more like Dazed's sitch from about 3 months ago!!!

I posted a response to this sitting in Palm Beach Int'l Airport yesterday and their WiFi Network ate it...dang.

Anyway, I have more hope for you in the near term than UVA; but it's all good. Don't know why you wouldn't be on guard ... your wife's out of the house and practically living with OM. But I concur with UVA's warning...I just happen to see you more like me, enjoying the moments, ignoring the situations gravity and trying to win her back your way. BTW, your way worked for me...so perhaps that's why I have more faith from my perspective. I felt last spring that IF it was going to end I was going to TRY to enjoy her company for the remaining few months while I plan A'ed. OM became really irrelevant; with the exception of some insiduous and innocuous attacking of his insecurities (much like you did by helping her with the car and getting the basket...I don't see think you see it as rewarding WW...like me, I see it as building your relationship with your wife AND interferring in their "relationship").

Seems OM was just threatening to break up with WW to guage her feelings and test her. Doesn't sound like he's really ended it. But certainly there is significant love busting going on over there. You are NOW the fun guy and OM is the heavy. No more rationilizations and justifications being worked on together by them. No more history rewriting. The secret tryst is now in the open and no longer so titillating.

So what to do, you ask?

Above you asked us about your feelings and how you're worried your feelings will be changing over the coming months IF she fails to get on board with at least attempting a reconciliation.

How do you feel about discussing YOUR feelings with her?

You have established a great "friendship" though I certainly believe she knows it's more than that. As a friend, can you not discuss your feelings with HER?

I hope others will assist me with this (especially if you like the idea...ask the board to give suggestions) but maybe you should discuss it all with her. Don't make it about her and what she's doing...make it about ONLY YOU. I think it's important to emphasize this conversation is not about "pressuring" her. Maybe indicate that you have really enjoyed reconnecting with her and thank her for opening up to you the last few weeks BUT that you have grave concerns that you CAN NOT continue to be such good friends with her and divorced. Your current friendship is not a manipulative act, you truly care deeply for her...but only as your wife, not as your ex-wife. That if you are not given a full opportunity at reconciliation that eventually you will end up resentful of her and OM, and thus detachment is a much better outcome than resentment. Let her chew on the FACT that you don't need a friend, you would like a wife, but a friendship with you, especially as it currently stands is NOT in the cards.

I also beleive you should try to get her to drag this out of you. Act as though you have an internal struggle and really don't want to discuss it. Make her beg it out of you. Then lay it on her covered in "friendly" dialogue. Don't be overly emotional and don't educate her...just lay out your concerns just as you did to us above and leave it at that. Keep it pretty short and simple. Don't overload her, just look to plant some seeds, let them grow and go back to be fun guy again. You could write it out if you'd like but you seem to grasp this stuff pretty good so I think direct, friendly, eye to eye, conversation would be MUCH better.

Also, be prepared for her focus to shift back to her. Everything is about HER (typical WS). If she tries to shift it back to her and her feelings just say "You've been so wonderful sharing so much about what you think and feel, don't you want to ever discuss how I feel?" or "I'm just trying to be open and honest with you as we both process all the events of the last few months...if you're not ready to discuss this just let me know, no worries".

Finally, guage the situation carefully. Keep this in mind not just for today but in the near future. At one point last spring my wife wanted tears from me (which are so tough to generate upon demand). She wanted to know how much I really cared about her. You can cry and be emotional just not over the top and needy like; but as a human overwhelmed by the emotional turmoil taking place in your family's lives. You would be emotional for your family and for her but not like "poor me". I am just saying you sound like a logical guy; OM, I'm betting IS emotional...thus it may behoove you to NOT be so stoic when discussing your feelings.

Last thing. Your wife will feel good about herself if you come to HER and seek HER counsel. If she can get out of her own skin and be a wife for a few minutes you will be making her feel needed by you. A wife NEEDS to feel needed. Allowing and getting her to meet your needs can and should begin your transition from a "friendship" to a more intimate relationship. Last spring, within my Plan A, I was determined to find out and try to discover everything about my wife that I didn't know. I, myself, had some walls I put up to intimacy which I tried my best to take down. I listened, really listened. Didn't try to fix things just asked questions and probed deeper. If you were only "friends" you wouldn't do that to such extreme. Through intimacy...love can be restored.

Of course, somewhere along the line OM has to be gone before much REAL progress can be made. But an intimate "friendship" will really be an asset when you do get to actual recovery. Which I think is bound to happen.

Your friend,

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- You're "feelings" for others (I am inferring you mean another woman) MUST NOT occur until you are divorced. You should NOT be sharing your emotional strife with any woman right now. You must be on-guard as you are emotionally vulnerable right now. Be careful. Another woman would only complicate your life right now. It's only a few months of your life, maintain your own integrity. Act like the individual, father, husband YOU choose to be, Don't React to your wife's inappropriate behavior by undertaking your own. There is no rationalization or justification EVER for having an affair, emotional or physical.

Mr. W.......your last post is in the process of being printed, to be carried with me. Thank-you, kind sir.

MWIL

P.S. WW is coming over for dinner prior to parent/teacher conference.

I'll give an update on the evening's encounter, later tonight.

Well, first real "unpleasant" interaction between WW and I in several months.

All was well...she came over for dinner, we had our Parent/Teacher conference (DD is top of the class!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) and we were driving back to my place, with kids.

An issue came up about how she has basically decided to not use our established daycare provider (lives close to us, on our way to work) and is exclusively using her sister, 25 miles away. She only uses our DC provider when she needs her. Our DC provider doesn't have a problem with that. But WW, obviously saves quite a lot of money on "her kids time" by using her sister.

I (in a calm fashion) express my concern that: 1.) She is traveling 25 miles every day unnecessarily with my DS in rush hour traffic, when our DC provider is 3 miles away from her on her way to work. 2.) That now, if I choose to have someone in my family watch kids for a day or two here or there, that I will be taking advantage of the kindness of our DC provider, and she will be getting even less money. So I feel that I'm incurring much more responsibility to "use" our DC provider exclusively, while WW just uses her "as she needs her" (basically when SIL can't watch DS).

Well, WW got a little defensive, and to make a long story short, I think she tucked this little interaction away into the "justification" part of her brain. It's almost as though ANY conflict or disagreement of the slightest variety is taken by her to "justify"...not that she mentioned it, but her actions toward me as she was leaving, (normally she would have stayed a bit, but she just left when we got back to my house after the conference)

Again, I feel no pain...Maybe my first expression of a boundary...and she didn't react well to it!!! Why would I want my DS to unneccesarily be in rush hour traffic (on both ends of the day, when WW has him!!?) Is this an unrealistic POV???? Is it only her decision on her time to use who she wants? Did I handle it well??? There was no "yelling" nor bad words, just a firm expression of how I felt...not that she was taking advantage of the kindness of our DC provider, but that DS was traveling unneccesarily, and I carry the burden of "having to use" DC provider.

She didn't seem overly angry, just kinda "well with what I did, I guess I'm going to have to 'deal' with H's expression" It's something she has expressed before she moved out....like, with what she did, she can never disagree we me about anything, because she could never feel justified in opposing my ideas, though I've expressed that I would absolutely try my hardest to never bring up her mistake during a disagreement. But she said, it wouldn't matter, because it would be brought up in her own head.


Thoughts??? I hope what I've written is understandable!!! Kinda fragmented, but I think you all get the idea!!

Thanks,

MWIL