My thought - very predictable that she and he have some "closure" contact. Her withdrawal is guilt. She's made promises to you she has been unable to keep. Let her know she can tell you if she messes up. YOU KNOW it is likely to happen and she's not the first FWW to break "no contact". She can start "no contact" again. Ask her about how it made her feel, see if you can get in there and make her realize the addictive nature of the repeated contact despite her best intentions and offer your help. Getting her back in your home is a big step towards her and her allowing you to help protect her from her weakness.

As far as the weather forecasting stuff. The casting penny analogy is good. I had also made the statement to Mrs. W that if a given person moves/drives around the coverage area they are more than 30% likely to get hit by rain because they moved about. The 30% forecast is for a given point thus for the common person going to and from work...they are much closer to say 90% likelihood of getting rained on than the stay at home mother that doesn't leave the house (using the 30% chance of rain forecast obviously).

Mr. Wondering

Well, FWW, is back to being a WW....says, "we starting talking too early" "I had a Ball with you last weekend, but there is still too much YOU and I have to sort out by ourselves" She has stated that she is still talking to him.

Oh well, I certainly am learning about the fog. I told her last night that "I totally agree...until he is gone and out of your heart....we can't begin to heal our marriage"

She said: "This isn't about him anymore (FOG!!!!!) this is about me either missing our family and your friendship, or me missing our marriage"

I told her that I didn't want to talk about this anymore..." and that "I need my space to regather the peace I had found, before you starting talking to him again." "I can't be a part of this triangle anymore."

She called me this morning, wanting to talk about a story on the news....I was running late....and told her that "I really need to go...I'm running late again."

So, as expected, the ride is rough.....BUT I AM STILL!
More determined than ever in setting boundaries without fear crippling me!! I'm OK....still strong, thanks to the knowledge here....of course it hurts, but knowing about patience and self value dulls the hurt...and the knowledge that if I've recovered from 8 months ago and have been fine without W/WW, then this pales in comparison.

Love bank was restored a bit for me, but much was given back....she needs that crisis everyone has talked about....what will that crisis be????????

No need for hugs <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, or "I'm sorry's".....I'm doing fine....I prepared for this down turn....just need to keep up on my Plan......NC, marriage counciling, for recovery....or Plan B....and the latter is coming soon....and any fear associated with Plan B won't cripple me.

Any thoughts???
Thanks as always,
MWIL

Look...I'm not clairvoyant and neither are many other folks on this board. As soon as you noticed something different in her we all knew contact was still going on and it struck a nerve. She has firmly planted her A$$ back on the fence and you're letting her.

Her crisis will be when you "man up" and stop plan A...only my humble opinion but to further make sure her EN's are getting met by you will deplete that Love Bank rapidly. You're at a cross roads my friend....I, personally do not look at further Plan A'ing her as a sign of strength for you....this is not the roller coaster part....of recovery...you're not there yet...

Establish boundaries and KEEP them now! You may be headed towards a Plan B that should not be delayed at all if you want it to be effective. It is time for that choice...him or you...all or nothing....

It's OK not to share.....people may disagree, including Dr. H.....if it were me, and clearly it is not, the above describes what I would do....make a choice....and if she can't....help her...by walking away....

SMOMW,

It is done!!!! I just told her on the phone that I'm not going to be part of her triangle she has created....it is me or him! I told her I didn't want to spend anymore time with her anymore and that I do not want her to call "me" anymore.

I'm doing this (again) because I know now that my Plan A over the last few months has been very good. And with your comments on her controlling how she wants to do this is not going to be the way we can get past this.

She knows of the girl that I was "hanging out" with. She assumes and now subtlely blames me for her "needing time to digest all this". Bullcrap!!! Fog, but she needs to as you put it, "Get knocked squarely off the fence"

Dr. H says that a good plan A followed by a dark Plan B, gives me back the peace, and the best chance at the WS coming back....with a path.....she knows that path....she just isn't strong enough yet to go through with it.

Man up.....a great phrase that I intend to do....

SMOMW....you have always asked me about "What is my Plan?" Well I'm executing it just as the Harley's have said.... to give the best chance.....but it's a narrow path. And I know the peace I was feeling when I removed myself from her back in January.

And after the great weekend we had last weekend....Plan A has come to a screeching halt....and the only way I will allow her back into my life as a potential partner is for her to abide by my conditions.....NC letter TOGETHER, and then marriage counciling with someone of my approval. Case closed....end of disscussion!! And I feel good right now! The peace will come back quickly I'm sure!

So there is my plan......it's all or nothing now.....and I have been preparing for this, in my head, now for sometime...even after last weekend.

You, sir, have been a great source of knowledge throughout all this....and I know that it may not end up with your ending....but who better to receive advice other than someone who was able to Re marry their love...after the incredible crap you went through!!
MWIL

MWIL,

Just as I suspected things would turn out, but I was greatly hoping that I was wrong. I was going to suggest that you delay Plan B for a little bit, but since you just let the cat out of the bag, you should do Plan B the right way. Send WW a Plan B letter ASAP, so she knows where you stand. Further, be ready to follow through with Plan B until WW totally surrenders to your boundaries demands. Until then you should not let her in, even though she will show signs of wanting to be with you.

Good luck.

BTW, check with the Harleys and see what their take is on the latest developments in your sitch.

SH already told me (in my first and only counciltation) that Plan B once I felt that my Plan A was good and that as soon as I saw progress stop....then goto Plan B.

I sent out a Plan B letter back in January....I asked her if she still had it...she said yes....and told her to refer to it if she needed the "path".

She said "so that is how your gonna be....after I told you this isn't about him anymore" I ignored her....and said good-bye.

I never qualified this last burst of Plan A as recovery, as many had named it.....recovery starts with her full remorse...not sure if she'll ever get there....but I can see now that Plan B will give me back my peace.

If she tries to contact me she'd better be fully prepared to implement my plan....or I will need to turn away.
MWIL

Fair enough, I am just not sure if you did not jump the gun too quick. The waffling occured in one day, but isn't that to be expected? It is not a linear path. The main point I think is to look at the trend. I just have an uneasy feeling that you may have gone to Plan B too soon. But then again, if WW planned to keep OM in the picture while figuring "what she wants" then sure Plan B is totally warranted. I am just not sure that is the case here.

Although I, personally, believe Plan B is the one thing that will take WW off the fence if at all, I am uncertain about the timing of your Plan B. But then again, only you know what kind of crap you can put up with. So it is not for me to say, I was just wondering.

BTW you've a great warrior through all of this. I have been very impressed by your actions.

Thank-you sir....I am NOT unsure about Plan B. Fog or no fog....she went back on the fence as SMOMW noted. I am not going to be another "Dazed". (If you have followed his threads...you know what I mean)

This is about me. I have been for some time, in a very much better place....and once I let one ounce of myself back to her emotionally....puff!.....She runs right back to the fence.

I'm sure that she'll try and "want to talk" but from here on out it WILL BE NC letter and marriage counciling or turn away. She is the love of my life.....but she's not my life.
MWIL

I cannot look back now....this is my path.

I agree, you should not be another Dazed, which is why I stopped reading his thread a few months ago. Although I wish him the best, I just could not take it anymore. So we agree on this point.

And since you are clear as to your goals, I support your actions. I am usually very hard on WS but thought that maybe you could tolerate WW a little more given your recent past history. But now that you seem to have past that threshold, it is Plan B or bust.

I will keep you in my prayers. You will be fine.

UVA, I think MWIL's timing for Plan B is perfect. He has done an OUTSTANDING job of Plan A for the past 5 months and now he leaves her with the best images of him and them together...no LB'ing. She wants to cake eat...that it!

If Plan A continues, MWIL runs the risk of LB'ing more frequently knowing his WW is still in contact and making those foggy statements.

BTW, I heard the "it's not about him" statement many times. Talk about fog babble at its worst. How can it NOT be about him?

MWIL, your plan A was stellar and I personally don't see any drawbacks with going into Plan B at this time. You have shown her the NEW you and done a masterful job at drawing her back to you. Now its about boundaries and you are enforcing them...well done.

Sure you could continue with your WW waffling and eventually coming back to you completely, but by going into Plan B now you are "manning up" as Send me suggested. She will gain respect for you.

Heck I respect you for going into Plan B so convincingly!

Just my opinion...FWIW.

Hope,

I just had some nagging doubts on the timing, but I think you guys are right!

I used my "gut feeling", the one that told me to "lay into her"......and I almost did.....but instead, a stern, very unemotional message to her was impressed upon her.....BOUNDARIES!!!! They were needed now!!!!!

Drawing WS's back with Plan A, seems to usually run into a brick wall at some point....and it did over the last few days. I'm prepared for her to be angry at me again....very angry.....but if I stay dark....I shouldn't have to deal with it!!! And this gives her a chance to have: either every need met by OM....or her time to think and miss me...if indeed the PA between him and her is over.

Maybe I pushed them back together.....maybe she is too broken to deal with this herself internally.....which will change her life course.....but enough is enough.....the bet has been placed....all my emotions for her have been liquified and been placed at the center of the table.....it is her turn...to play or fold.

This is why I think going into Plan B right now is the right move. You are hurt, your LB took a hit. If this continues you will probably beging to LB as your frustration with her actions and commnets grows.

Also, she will begin seeing OM again and he will surely LB with her. You will look even more attractive in her eyes.

MWIL, I really want you to pull this out, but I know how you must feel right now. It stings knowing that all your hard work has seen a setback, but like UVA and Send me suggested, it's par for the course.

I have followed your story from the beginning and I really believe that your WW knows the right decsion is to be with you. She knows that will make her most happy since you have changed and she will be able to be with her family for 100% of the time. OM is a fantasy...that is all and she wants to keep the fantasy going. By the sounds of it, their R is already on lifesuppot so go dark and just wait this out. She will come back...I can feel it!

Good luck my friend!

HTW

MWIL...Plan B is hard....you already tried once.....DARKNESS WORKS....If your stance is "all or nothing" than stick to your guns.....either way you will be stronger when done...

I am here for you....folks may notice I have not been posting all that much anymore...there are developments on my end. Not all bad...and I will update soon....G...you know my e-mail......good luck my friend I am pulling for you....you too Hope....it is almost August...

Thanks guys! I think Plan B after having 6 months of living apart isn't going to be excrutiatingly hard. Maybe only when I get info. back from her that she wants to try...but not MY way!!!

((((MWIL)))

I just saw the new twist to your story. I think you are absolutely right about going into plan B. My WH sat on the for months cake eating basking in the fog. My plan B was not stellar but it certainly got his attention. I highly reccommend plan B. The darker the better. You have given her a lot to think about and a lot to miss over these last few weeks.

Its time to regroup. I still think this will turn out right. She just needs to see it herself.

Thanks, CC,.....but I never got my hopes up too much....well, maybe a little, but I KNEW that it wasn't going to be a cakewalk.

Being a BS.......there should be some sort of "metal of honor",.....but, I'd surely just accept my wife back as payment....as long as she respects me. And that, right now, is something she isn't doing.

Glad to see some good news on your behalf.....stay strong and STILL. Trust the Harley's......the best chance at recovery!!!

WW called me, tried to talk to me....I asked her if she was ready to write a NC letter....she spewed at me.....I hung up.

It's so funny to watch a WW in action!! I'll be alright. She just needs to get her head out of her alien a$$!!!!!!!!!!

If there's no NC letter then rewrite Plan B letter...and

DARKNESS...

not like last time!!