Okay, I see his plan. If you go bankrupt, then I guess you go bankrupt. I would stick to my guns.

You will need to talk to your daughter. This stuff is very hurtful to kids. My boys' dad used to pull the same thing. I put him out because he was cheating and abusive. He told my 6 year old that he was sleeping in the street. My son used to cry when it rained, saying he felt bad about his daddy being out in the rain.

Can you get counseling for your kids?

We have already gone to some group counseling that is ordered by the court. It turned out to be really helpful. We have appointments for IC but could not get in until March 9. this guy is really booked. I think it is ok though. They are really greiving right now and he is doing NOTHING to make it easier for them. It makes me furious but what can I do? I just try to help them as best I can and am doing a decent job at not being negative about him but boy is it HARD!

It just makes me FURIOUS when they use the kids like this. All of the time my boys' dad said he was living in the streets, he was actually living with OW on her sailboat. GRRRRRRRR.

My sons are grown now, and understand. But it was so hard back then. Hang in there.

Here we go again, H came in from an out of town trip to pick up clothes. He put clothes in the washing maachine and because he has NO CLUE how to use it because he doesn't want to know, I turned it on. We never spoke but I put his clothes in the dryer etc. expecting him to leave when they were done. He gets in the bed and goes to sleep. I go in around 10:00 and say Look it is late and you need to go. He says I don't have anywhere to go so i am staying here. This frustrates me to no end because it is a power thing with him. It makes no difference that he has a court order to be out of the house. He is going to stay and do whatever. Not to mention the fact that for our five year old it is a major issue for him to being packing his bags again and looking so distraught when he leaves. I finally get her to a more stable place emotionaly and here he comes again. I just want to scream. If I call and have him put out I look like this mean vindictive person. he is telling the kids he has no where to go no food, etc. Ohhhhh, I am angry! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Instead of changing anything, he seems to think that he can force things and have his way. I think I would let him know in writing that you will not hesitate to involve the court.

I called the lawyer today. They said he will be receiving something from the courts in the next day or so. I say a really great Counselor today. It was so good for me. I know I am doing the right thing even though it is very hard. It is sad to me but I am really at peace. I will be glad when it is over.

Wow! It is amazing how my emotions go round and round. What a ride. My husband will be out of town for 9 days. That in a way is a good thing because he is supposed to be out of the house but, was staying. I told him when he left he would need to move out when he got back. This is so hard. Because of the affair and more importantly the abuse in the relationship I know I am doing what I must do. He is going to counseling but honestly, there is little progress. It will take a lot of time to know there is progress. I am basically left with no choice. Well, I have a choice but I must do what is best for my children and myself. the sad thing is we have been together for 24 years. I love him but know this must happen. it is so hard. I know he will move on probably quicker that I will. I just love him and hate it has come to this. Sometimes i feel so angry at him, other times at myself. I understand why he has the pain that causes him to do the things that he does. I just can no longer handle it. We can't live in it anymore. i just pray he will make the adjustments needed in his life. I felt so lonely tonight and it helps so much to have you all to talk to.

ok I am going to beg for communication tonight. I just need some kind of a response. Please!

I hate to sound so needy but this is the lonliest I have felt in a long time.

Even with no one responding I already feel better. Things can always be so much worse than they are. I guess I am talking to myself but oh well, I have always been pretty good at that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I spent lots of time here talking to myself.

Well, you are doing the best thing. Hopefully he will figure out that he needs to make some changes, and do it. It's fine to understand why he is like he is, but he needs to do something about it.

Exactly! I had a tough night feeling sorry for myself etc. I am better today. I hate feeling sorry for myself it is a ucky feeling that you just roll around in. UGH! Thanks for responding to me. you always have. you are a special friend.

I really think I am moving on past some issues. I really feel that I am making progress. I went to talk to our pastor today and didn't really know how I would feel about it or what I would say but i feel so good about it. I am not even really sure why but I do feel like I have moved forward somehow. I am not as fearful as I have been. My husband is telling everyone he is quiting his job etc. Today a friendd called to say I should reconsider. He said that I was setting myself up for a tough life etc. I said I will take whatever comes to me but I will not stay in this for $ security. He said basically that my husband was going to leave me with nothing. I just said if that is what he does I will live through it. I can't base my decisions on his threats or even his bad decisions. he is responsible for his actions and me for mine.

Today has been a really great day! My girls and I got a lot done that we had been putting off. The weather was BEAUTIFUL and so the girls went fishing and caught a couple of big fish. They had a lot of fun. We needed that! My H will be coming in town on Friday or Saturday. The orders from court came and stated he was to remove all his belongings etc. He will not take this well, again. Please pray that I will stay focused on moving forward. I love him so much but know this must happen. Tough love is sometimes the hardest to give. I guess because I really don't see him really wanting to make it work and so I know unless God is able to reach him this is it.

Glad you had a great day. That is the way toward a great life for you and your children. Who knows? Your husband may "get it" one of these days. Don't give up hope.

Loving, My husband is a King of manipulation. I confronted him about the A. he did not deny it at first but neither did he confess to it. He just pointed out all my faults and why an A on his part would be justified. Because of other issues in our M etc. I decided I needed to file for Divorce. he told me on 3 different occ. he was having an affair and that I should try to speed up the process of Divorce. After the divorce was filed he began to tell others that he was not having an affair. He just said that he had to hurt me etc. he had also told me that he had only said it because he thought it was what I wanted to hear! What do you think of these comments?

"What do you think of these comments?"

Frustrating, crazymaking sadness, girl. That's what I think and feel.

Now, what was your part?

Do you believe that God created us with the ability to only control ourselves...or some got more and can manipulate others?

See, in Spidey's thread...acting to manipulate is still acting. Does not dictate another person's choices.

Why did you choose to D? Why did you choose to take the blame he was shoveling? See, he believes what he believes...you do not have to choose to believe his way. That's self-betrayal.

Julie, I'm getting that you were probably in a marriage pre-A overflowing with assumptions, mindreading, DJs and SDs, from both sides. Reactive rather than choosing your actions. You chose this manipulative man for a purpose...you were accustomed to his behavior and intentions from earlier in your life, so you were familiar and comfortable with it. You had your own survival patterns and routines in response. Probably looked like the opposite to you when you met him and fell in love.

This still isn't about him...but you, can you see?

Find these patterns and you'll solve your own mystery, own your life and flourish...without him. I would bet that in even a few months you will see him differently than you do now or have in the past. If you have contact due to children, he may make advances to you over time to reconcile because of your shining new light. Who knows?

What I also read is that you're D'vd and still not letting go. I get that. The reasons you're not letting go might contain not getting all the lessons out of the experience of the marriage and A; holding to old beliefs within yourself even when you now have a lot of new knowledge; questing for justice, balance, fairness (old belief again) and thirsty for it all to make sense and make you new.

You are the only one who has these answers, must examine in yourself in order for all of it to make sense and you to be made new.

Not an easy task.

Begin with...

Why do I care that others might choose to believe XH over me? Or believe him and therefore think ____ of me, whether I know them or not. Why do I expect others to not see through H but be too polite to call him on this lie?

Do I doubt myself...I know he had an A. No doubt. How does it change this truth if others believe differently?

Here's a DJ from me to him...he is a Boy King with pretensions to the throne. He has spent his life with the belief that he controls---if he gets what he needs for himself, he will be safe...and everything he receives he made happen. No gifts. Some part in the result was his influence, intelligence, foresight or sheer desire for it. When he gets what he didn't want, then he had no part, no influence; it was done to him. He fears helplessness and may have jeered at others who he believed were that way, or their helplessness may have angered him.

Because he has feared greatly, constantly, and deeply for so long.

He lived in your eyes and judgment, made you responsible for his feelings, because his own were crushing him. By "no comment" to your first confrontation, he was waiting for something you didn't provide. You either asked if, or stated that, he was having an affair. You were telling him aloud what you both knew. That's reasonable and adult. You needed him to confirm it--there he had you. This is where you manipulated, dear Julie...tried to make him tell the truth when you already knew it and had communicated your knowledge to him.

Know what you know, Julie. In all things, through contemplation and examination, know what you know. Own your beautiful, smart self thoroughly. Develop your code from there and you will not feel those emotions I put at the beginning...definitely no more crazymaking...no more need for external validation over simple stuff (A's aren't complicated--the lessons from them are, IMO). You might desire some external validation over complicated stuff because you're human and we need one another.

Do not own what isn't yours...he may have answered by pointing out your faults...but you establish if his beliefs are true for you. Most likely, he was throwing on you all the crud he sees in himself. Respect him. His crap is his...you don't make anyone do anything. We have freewill. Choice. You chose to believe...and you need to find out why.

What were the other issues in your marriage? What was your part? Maybe letting go of what he is doing/saying/portraying to others...is the final lesson...or just the first.

LA

P.S. (You're the first person I've posted to when I haven't read their current thread all the way...I will tomorrow.)

Julieco - you asked me to come over here and maybe make a comment or two. But I have no idea what you would like me to address, so if you can give me a hint I'll see what I can do.

God bless.

LA, I believe with all my heart this is my final lesson. i am having trouble still letting go. It gets easier with each step but this has been hard and a long time coming. I needed your words of wisdom and you were right on with it. thanks!

ForeverHers, Nothing really for now. I do respect your opinions and do hope you will "check in" on me to see if you have words of wisdom. I am in a really tough time in my life and God is leading me every step of the way. I do, however, very much need encouragement and advice. I appreciate you checking in tonight.