i feel like you are setting her up to fail you.

i think you want to avoid conflict by telling her the choice is hers.

but, why not be honest and tell her how it makes you FEEL to think of her having sex with another man?
maybe that's what she needs to hear from you to feel loved and treasured BY YOU.
she is craving excitement and attention. you could be the one to give her both.
if you tell her to make her own choice she may feel like you are not passionate enough about her to fight for her.

It's not controlling or unresonable to want your spouce to be faithful. It's controlling and unresonable for her to demand her 'freedom' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. Dont agree to anything that insane, you'd be hurting yourself. Take care of yourself the way you'd want your children protected. Dont give her the gun, point it at you, and beg her to pull the trigger! That's insane, really. You'll regret it, always.

I'm sure she wouldnt be happy if you started sleeping around. If that's how the relationship is going to be, get the D, first! At least it will keep the STD's to a minimum. Yikes! I hope the MC goes well. Please take care of yourself!! - Dru

Curious...From all the advice that says don't do it... how many of you are religious are movitated by religion? The reason I bring this up. I think conservative folks will base decisions on religous beliefs. We're not religious.. Doesn't mean we can't aphold standards and morals... just food for thought.

Also, I hope she gets on this forum to speak her side of things. And if she does, please be open. Don't jump down her throat. We're doing what we can to work through this openly and constructively.

One time about three years ago. I was faced with an issue. I was out of town on business and a female co-worker and I took in a hot tub in a LA hotel. Outdoor, public place with other people. After a while, I felt she was hinting around for you know what.. I thought about it for a bit. And decided not to do anything. Went to bed. I never told my wife about that until recently. How is her meeting somebody recently any different than my actions? We both were faced with the decision to do or not do something. She choose to tell me about it and now we've had five days of emotional craziness. Wouldn't she had been better off not saying anything while she worked this out for herself?? LIke I did? Isn't she the better of the two of us for telling me?

I read that thread:
The Policy of Joint Agreement

Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement
between you and your spouse

Interesting. She told me she won't do anything until I'm on board with her way of thinking. And that's what I intend to do. Get on 100% the same page so I get it. I'm close to getting there. It's black and white for her. and a little gray for me.. But, if she can get me in her mind and we have an agreement, what's wrong with anything we decide?

I'm with LostHusband. She may have already done it.

I don't think so. I know her enough to know she's not-guilty. I don't think a kiss is cheating either. At the end of the day, because she's so open, I can do nothing but have faith in her words. And that my friends, is good enough for me. If she says she hasn't she hasn't. If she did and lied about it. That's just a lie. And it will come-out in the wash.

I'm going to be honest with you...I didn't read on the posts on here but I just can't believe you are even TRYING to get yourself to a place to give the stamp of approval for your W to sleep with someone else...it crazy, just crazy.
Relationships and intimacy are built on trust. If this happens it's going to be a blow to trust and intimacy.
I'm a Christian, but this really has nothing to do with that for me. Where would your trust be? How would you feel...it's reminiscent of "indecent proposal" if you caught that movie.
If you want to start all over with trust issues...
But if you want to start all over and just rebuild what is missing/lost, than do that.
I think it is selfish for her to even ask. It's appalling...why be married? What she wants is a single life! It would break my heart if this were my H...just not good, no good can come from it!

Hmmm, at the risk of my advice coming off as too Judeo-Christian and closed minded to you, I'd like to ask, how did you feel when she told you she kissed a man at the bar? Happy for her that she's not going to feel so caged any more? That's what enthusiastic means. If you're looking for approval, dude, the site is called marriage builders. The advice is based on what builds strong marriages. I don't think I ever read a study that says marriages with affairs last longer because it helps the partners avoid that caged feeling. Read around some more, and you will find how to make your marriage together the opposite of a cage. There aren't any needs your W has that she wouldn't rather you meet than some stranger, maybe she doesn't know how to ask? I think you came to this website because that's what you want.

Yes, I'm here for help. I'm here. I'm talking openly with my W about it. I'm planning on professional help. I'll pull out all the stops to save my marriage. And one thing in a lot of ways has nothing to do with another.Perhaps, there's a forum that's about being in a semi-open relationship and building marriages? If that exists :-) And what if I have temptation in the future? I'm human. Why can't I act on it now? Not about getting even. But just experiencing life, pleasure and emotion. I'm not looking for it as she says she's not. Sometimes, life presents opportunities. And life is about living. Perhaps, I'm looking at this wrong. Perhaps, I'm messed-up.

I just have to look at not just this issue, but our marriage and everything in life as something to be considered. Until now, I haven't really thought about what and if I'd do anything if she did. I wouldn't do it out of revenge. And it would be that if we had an agreement.

I'm an open person. I've experiemented with lots of things. At the end of the day, we have to make-up our own minds about what makes us happy.

“””Doesn't mean we can't uphold standards and morals... just food for thought.”””

So in the standards and morals you uphold, do you believe that it is a good thing for your wife to jump on another dude? I’m further presuming that y’all modified your wedding vows say something like “Forsaking all others, unless she feels caged”. No, y’all made a promise, religious or not, to be only with each other, right? Oh, and if she does this dude and gets pregnant, what then? Or if she catches a case, what then?

”””Isn't she the better of the two of us for telling me?”””

Well I ain’t usually the one to keep score and would usually say neither is better, just different. But unless you made out with the hot tub chic, then there really was nothing to tell. Your wife, on the other hand, has been meeting with and AT LEAST kissing another dude.

“””Interesting. She told me she won't do anything until I'm on board with her way of thinking.”””

She told you this before or after she had already breeched your trust by at least making out with the dude? In my humble opinion she’s already shown the capacity to hide, manipulate, and cheat. So now she’s looking for a permission slip to do it out in the open where there will be no guilt.

Believe it or not, I’ve hung around these boards several years and have seen this scenario in the early stages and after it’s happened many many times and have never ever seen it come to a positive outcome after the deed was done. Heck one guy let his wife bone another and then clammed up on his turn and was tormented by thoughts of another man penetrating his wife, when it was he who was the one who wanted to screw around.

Let me ask you something else since y’all seem so open. What are you going to think if she comes back amazed at the size of his member? What if she comes back telling you that you stink in the sack compared to this dude? Are you OK with all that?

If you could tell this audience of educated marriage building people who this could possibly provide positively to your marriage, I’d say we are all ears. Thus far, I can see absolutely no positives what so ever.

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She also pronounced that monogomy isn't natural and I'd have permission to sleep with somebody if I wanted with us both agreeing on a set of rules. Yet she doesn't want to be swingers or even be considered in an open marriage because she's not sure she's planning on doing it again.

This doesn't make much sense--if she feels monogamy is unnatural, why did she get married at all?

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BTW, her first hubby cheated on her with her best friend.

So, I'm guessing something OTHER than the affair caused her to divorce him? Just assuming that monogamy is unnatural and all, you'd think she would have been okay with that.

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I've encouraged her to go back to work. Take-up a hobby, Put our son in daycare more days to have more time for herself.

Right--these are normal and healthy ways to keep up your morale after having cared for a baby for one year. Strange though, her way of fixing the problem is having sex with a man she met in a club. I'm having trouble understanding why the "normal" solutions for her problem aren't working for her. I have to say, I don't know very many women who want to have sex with another man after having to stay home and care for their child.

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Curious...From all the advice that says don't do it... how many of you are religious are movitated by religion? The reason I bring this up. I think conservative folks will base decisions on religous beliefs. We're not religious.. Doesn't mean we can't aphold standards and morals... just food for thought.

My Husband and I don't subscribe to any kind of religion, but when we married, we promised to remain faithful to each other. That's part of the contract and that's something that we wouldn't have committed to if we felt that we might want to have sex with other people in the future.

I understand that you're trying to be open-minded and see her point, but there may not be a very good reason for her wanting to have sex with another man except that she WANTS to. Have you asked yourself if her having sex with another man will HELP your relationship or HINDER it? I'm guessing that if she goes through with this, the next argument you have will involve someone bringing up the the "scheduled" affair that she had. How could it NOT enter into your relationship? You're brining another man into the picture who gets to bang your Wife, without having any responsibility toward HER or your household. Why should HE have that luxury?

I have a huge problem with her allowing YOU to have an affair, as well. Have you considered that she's using that as "bait" so you'll give your blessing for HER affair? Beware--if this affair doesn't turn out the way SHE wants it to, your affair could easily turn into a nightmare. Surely, the rules will change if her fling goes sour.

Have you considered your child in all of this? When a couple swings or chooses to bring other people into their relationship, it's their choice, but when a child is involved, it becomes a very selfish act. You have no way of knowing whether your Wife will even stay with you after she experiments with another man. You're questioning whether she wants to do this for "emotional" reasons...if that's true, then it seems that you can't be sure HOW she'll react once she begins having sex with him. You're sacrificing a stable home for your child by even considering this!

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Wouldn't she had been better off not saying anything while she worked this out for herself?? LIke I did? Isn't she the better of the two of us for telling me?

She might have been better off not saying anything about it, but she knew very well that if she decided to have sex with another man and got CAUGHT, things would be very hairy. Some people, faced with this scenario, would rather come "clean". It helps them feel less deceitful.

Is she the better one for having told you? Perhaps. I don't know...if disclosing possible affairs is your yardstick for measuring your personal worth, then I suppose you have yourself a pretty good wife. Personally, I'd rather have my Husband discuss problems with me so we can come to a mutally acceptable solution that doesn't involve loveless sex with some bar fly...but that's just me. You have to ask yourself how her actions will HELP your marriage in the future. I see no positive benefits in this.

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I'm an open person. I've experiemented with lots of things. At the end of the day, we have to make-up our own minds about what makes us happy.

I think you assumed your Wife would be faithful when you married or you wouldn't have married at all. Try not to delude yourself...

It's not about penis size. This issue is not about that. That's silly.

OK I'm here for my stoning.

First of all, I appreciate my husband fairly representing the current situation. If there is one thing we can both agree on it's that am being truthful. So discussing whether or not I have already done it is not productive.

The other thing I would like to clear up is that I was not out with this guy for 4 nights last week! Not even once.

And here's where I am at. I love my husband very much. I want to grow old with him. Our relationship is anything but traditional and I thrive best this way. We both come from a long line of failed marriages (family, friends, colleages and personally) due to infidlity and dishonesty. I have always been the cheatee and never the cheater. The dishonesty would be more than I could handle.

So my unorthodox ideas are that I would communicate this situation with my husband. I have since learned in the past week, that my husband has already been tempted in this way and chose to say nothing about his night. Kudos for my honesty.

A good read, though not exactly down my alley...
"It is known that everyone is attracted to, or has sexual thoughts, about someone else when they're in a long term relationship. Yet the deceit and dishonesty that goes hand-in-hand with infidelity is still one of the biggest causes of heartbreak and failure within a relationship. So does the open relationship answer this age old dilemma, do they work in the long term and what are the benefits and drawbacks?

The issues surrounding polygamy are unresolved. Has modern life evolved to a level that's too complex for an open relationship to work, or do we simply not have the emotional strength to commit to one? But given that most of us are cheating and lying anyway, is the alternative any more palatable?"

What do you mean by "religious"? I ask b/c I am spiritual, I believe in God, Son , & Holy Ghost. I also respect others for their beliefs, even if different. I have NOT read the entire Bible...just a few stories/books here & there. I am not a 'Bible-thumper" nor can I be found in prayer at all times of the day & night and I cannot quote scriptures. I speak to The Man and I know in MY heart that ultimately it is HE who is in real control. "Organized religion" doesn't mean much to me....you can be Christian and someone else Jewish and both be "Spiritual". IMHO The Creator wishes us to love & respect each other & get along together while on this Earth.

I base my advice/opinion to your situation on my heart. There is NO WAY in H*LL that I could stand for my H sleeping with another woman...NO WAY! This is not Christian-based, religious-based, or morally-based...this is ME-based.

It cannot bring anything good. Sure there have been sitcoms that depict "swingers" as connected, full of love for each other, etc...I don't buy that! Marriage is a commitment based on trust and integrity...meant to be shared between 2 people - and 2 people only. Your spouse is supposed to be THE ONE AND ONLY person whom you can be totally yourself & honest with. This is the one person who TRULY KNOWS the real YOU. Marriage is not something one-sided to be used for selfish fulfillment...it is a shared-intimacy and a TRUE relationship in every sense of the word.

I am sorry if I sound harsh...this just bugs me. We are such an instant gratification and disposable society - it flippin drives me nuts!!! What happened to our wedding vows, whether religious-based, said in a church or written by yourselves, said to each other from your hearts while standing in the middle of a flippin horse barn? These are words of commitment said to each other...not to also include the occasional visitor! Give me a break!


Yes, you were faced with an issue - should I or shouldn't I and you decided NOT to and didn't feel a need to tell your W. Not a problem, to me. She has gone BEYOND being faced with a situation to acting on that situation. I am not sure why she is even talking to you about this - maybe it's b/c either (1) she wants help from you to save her from doing the unthinkable (to her) - or (2) b/c she already has done it and wants to cover her tracks. Heck, I have NO CLUE. I do know that NO, b/c she is telling you what HAS occured and is ASKING permission to go further...this DOES NOT make her the better of the two of you.

Sorry, I just cannot fathom asking my H (or my H asking me) persmission to sleep with another man (woman). I am shocked. Maybe I am naive and simple and somewhat sheltered, but married people are not supposed to do this to each other.

Whew, Dude! Where is your self-worth? Do you love this woman so much that you are willing to sacrafice yourself for her or do you NOT love yourself therefore whatever she does is fine with you? That is what my IC and possibly my MC would probably ask. Think about what people are saying here.

Sorry, guess your situation and your replies to advice you have rec'd is just too much for me.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide.

LH, I love your posts! Tell it like it is!!!!
I've since read the rest of this thread and I'm telling ya, this is just nonsense!!!
WHY not just get divorced now?!
That's where you're heading.
I'd like to find out what it is in you that would even CONSIDER this? Is it because you get a "free pass" too? What kind of jargon is that...free pass to screw someone else???!!! Are you afraid of conflict? Is that what it is? When you were listing out your feelings...anger, rage, jealousy...where were the positive ones? NOTHING good can come from this!!! I don't care if you are married, or just dating and have a commitment... the bottom line is trust, and she's broke that already kissing some dude. You just aren't going to have anything without it!!
What do you want your kids growing up thinking? You have his hers and ours in the kid section now...isn't that enough?
Work on your marriage-YOUR issues. She's going to do what she wants! If she feels guilty, she should. You both made a commitment to each other... if she can't hold up her end of the bargain then she needs to step off! If you work on your issues and what you can do, then maybe you will be better in your next relationship and learn that you deserve to have that commitment made to you...
This site IS called Marriage Builders. So far in this thread I've not seen anyone real hip on this idea. You won't find it anywhere on here, and I hope no one that agrees to this.
I am on here to learn how to build a strong, healthy marriage that will involve love and respect. These people here have good advice. I hope you listen to it...affairs (and let's call a spade a spade here-that's what this would be!) do nothing but tear a marriage down and there are hundreds of people on here trying to get their marriage back on track. You have the power to say what you feel and perhaps stop it if it hasn't already happened. You have, right now some preventative things.... get to counseling now!!!

Well Honestly, I think y'all ought to start by reading His Needs/Her Needs and the Basic Concepts on this site. Further, I think y'all ought to shelf any idea of any others for an indefinite period and work at building a strong satisfying marriage.

I think y'all ought to take the emotional needs survey on this site and begin meeting each others emotional needs. I think y'all ought to eliminate all Love Busters, Disrespectful Judgements, Angry Outbursts, and Independent Behaviors. If you read through the stuff on this site you'll find the 3 States of Mind in Marriage. From y'alls description it sounds like the Misses is in "Conflict", why not see if y'all can both get back to the "Intimacy" stage.

Then a year down the line when you have a healthy fulfilling marriage if'n one of you still wants to step outside the marriage then entertain it honestly then. From what little description y'all have presented, it truly doesn't sound like this marriage is in a healthy enough state that it could withstand a lot more turmoil....

And Dude, I wasn't saying this was about size or anything like that but find it amusing that out of everything I posted you picked up on that. What it is about is the unknown, the pandora's box this opens. If you true are truly open and honest then you're probably going to think you want some details and those details may be the thing that honestly sinks this ship....

Do you believe that you have experienced everything you can in your marriage? Do you know your wife's top emotional needs? Does she know yours? Are you willing to step outside of your comfort zone to meet your wife's needs -- as opposed to being uncomfortable with her having them met elsewhere? Are you providing a Love Buster-free zone? "Be all that you can be" doesn't just apply to the Army. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W8ing

Why hasn't anyone responded to my wife's post. This is the most interesting aspect of it all. We're both here searching for answers yet nobody has addressed her thoughts so far.

I'm in an airport 1000 miles from home. I'd love to hear what you all think and perhaps you can respond directly to my wife's words and see if together, the two of us and this group/forum can offer some help. We truly are here for help to build on our marriage. Really.

I can relate to what your wife says. i'll cast no stones!
it stinks to play by all the rules and then find out you have been lied to and cheated on.
i am social and always enjoyed clubbing and dancing etc....and i am very open and honest and do not get off on the excitement of cheating and hiding.
i understand feeling caged in and the need to feel excited and i think you are looking to feel swept off your feet so you can really enjoy sex again..........w/o all the burdens of a relationship. i can relate to that.

if i were you (spanxs wife) i think i'd be wondering what i missed on and i might even be alittle afraid of never having that feeling again.....and i think that you show a real honest and open nature by bringing this up with your husband.
my question would be to your H.......how does it make you FEEL? to think of your wife with another man?
and can you be honest with her about that?

I hadn't responded a second time because I thought I had shared what I have to offer. But, okay, I'll aanother stab.

We're not here to 'stone' anyone, just offer perspective that we think can help when people ask.

How do you think your H would feel if you were to go through with this? How do you feel about causing him discomfort?

Do you think this enticing guy at the bar is the only one who can meet your need for SF? How could your H provide this? What could you do with this guy that wouldn't be more incredible and memorable done with your H? Is there something you could do with your H to create a memory that would make you feel so happy every time you thought of it? Is there anything you'd like to ask him to try, but not sure how to ask him?

In what way do you think an affair would lead to a stronger marriage?

How is the rest of your M (marriage)? MB offers skills that will help you meet each other's needs, negotiate conflict, and eliminate LBs (love busters). How does this sound to you?

Have you read the posts your H got on affairs? There's a lot of wisdom there IMO. What did you think?