I'm posting this here because I think the root of the problem stems from an emotional issue. Not sex.

I've been with my wife for six years. Married for one. We each have a child from a previous marriage and have a 1 year old together. She's been home with that child for the year or so and tells me she's feeling caged. She's 34. I'm 38. I can see how she needs to get outside of the house for some non-crying baby time for herself to be her. I get that.

Recently, she has been persued by a man (35) at one of our local night spots.She wasn't out looking for trouble. It kinda found her. She regected it for some time over several nights or months. She's very good at telling guys she's married. And that's why I trust her. I've never doubted her.

She was out four nights last week. She says he's the only man that she's ever been attraced to in the past seven years in a lustful way to want to sleep with. Generally, the guys are kinda creepy at clubs. She kissed him last Tuesday and then asked me for one get out of jail free card to sleep with him while explaining she loves me and wants to be with me when I'm old and gray. That's cool. Nice to have the reassurance. But it's also hard to hear the first part for the first time. It was a shocker at first. But I'm getting used the idea now. I've had mixed emotions throughout the past week about how to react. And I think I've experience the entire range of emotions. Rage, anger, jealously. Loss, etc. Then once I came down from all that, I began to look at this differently.

She also pronounced that monogomy isn't natural and I'd have permission to sleep with somebody if I wanted with us both agreeing on a set of rules. Yet she doesn't want to be swingers or even be considered in an open marriage because she's not sure she's planning on doing it again. Just now. Just once to feel alive, etc. To feel young perhaps. It's just something she needs to do! The sex with a stranger has to be some deep-rooted need that's going unmet. Thoughts? Or it's just a release... :-)

Sure, our relationship isn't without issues. Too many to count. Like most couples I'm sure. I know our issues and my involvement has contributed to this in some way. I'm happy that she's honest enough to come to me. That meant the world. Really.... who does that anymore?

My choice is simple. Do I allow it and it makes us stronger but not without the risk of divorce? Do I put my foot down and say no. Then she could do it anyway and not tell me? Or some combination? My gut says set her free. She'll come back stronger. People should be who they want to be in life.

I'm here searching for advice as to both our emotional state of minds.

I've encouraged her to go back to work. Take-up a hobby, Put our son in daycare more days to have more time for herself.

She's bottled-up, caged-in and anxious. I need to find a way to help her before she does this... or not... Everybody gets old. Everybody has desire to do this stuff here and there. Perhaps there's a combination of me helping her and she helping herself. We're looking for a shrink now to get outside help

BTW, her first hubby cheated on her with her best friend. I met her while cheating on my wife.I've cheated on my first wife four times. I've also been way guilty of questionable actions but never crossed the line. Nor did I really want to... otherwise, I may have already I think. I guess I have it coming :-) I should examine why I did what I did. But this is different, because she's being open and not running around behind my back. Sounds bad I know. But I felt we both learned from our first failed marriages and we made a promise not to cheat on each other six years ago. Well, here we are, and she's popped the question. And this could just be a case of needing an open relationship of sorts. While I'm open. I'm also scared of what I might feel before, during and afterwards. But if I remain open and come around to a new way of thinking, perhaps, we'll be happier than ever. And that is music to my ears.


++++++ New

Since posting this, I've told my wife about posting this. She said she may get on this thread to put it in her words. That will be interesting to have both perspectives if that happens.

Thoughts? Questions?

Spanx:

Welcome ...

Have you read "Coping with infidelity: How do affairs begin?" on this site? That may be a good starting point for you both to talk about. She is spending time away from you at clubs and getting attention. Sleeping with someone else will not turn back the clock for her but will cause problems for you both IMHO. Taking the EN questionnaire together would identify a host of needs listed in your post.

How could that be? For example if I have hunger for food, I may be hungry for french toast, but if oatmeal is all I have, I can eat that and it will satisfy my need. I may have wanted french toast, but I don't think anyone would call that a need. (Can you tell I'm dieting <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) Your W is very fortunate to have such an understanding husband, but you know you will regret this if you allow it. Brainstorm with her how you can meet her need for SF within your marriage.

this sounds like the root problem, why she's going to clubs and where this value system reigns. Brainstorm how she can uncage herself without going to the clubs where men are persuing her. Perhaps going to a gym that has child care and taking an dance aerobics class will allow her to get her energy out and make friends in a better environment? You've heard the expression, "If you play with fire, you're going to get burned."

Welcome. I am fairly new also. I have posted my issues here and rec'd lots of valuable and insightful advice and suggestions.

I am currently in the process of listening to His Needs, Her Needs on CD. It is awesome! One of the things Dr. Harley says is that couples must spend recreational activities together, not apart. This solidifies their connection and gives the couple other things for talking instead of just the normal 'bills, and children', which keeps the connection also.

IMHO I would not allow my H to do that. Sorry, just not in my personality. I would have great difficulty w/my H kissing another woman. I don't think sleeping with another person outside of your marriage and spouse is the way to heal issues or bring you closer to each other.

Be careful, but follow your heart. Can you allow her to do this in "an effort to help your marriage" without it causing YOU hurt and pain???

Have you thought about marriage counseling to discuss WHY your W feels a need to do this? Why also is she going out four times in one week without you? The HNHN CD also addresses Emotional Needs of men and women...also great info. It's as if Dr. Harley is TEACHING men & women HOW to interact in a positive and continually loving manner - thus bringing them closer to each other than ever before. I wish I had known about this group and this book/CD BEFORE my H went wacky, I could have saved a lot of hurt...but I am still hopeful that I can do that. I have learned a lot from this CD set and I've just began listening to CD#4 in a 5-disc set.

I am NOT chastising or criticising you or your W; I guess I am just asking the "hard questions"; questions I would ask myself or a close friend with the same issue.

Good Luck to you.

Stay tapped in to this group, read everything you can here, there are lots of wise people in this forum and I assume on the infidelity forum as well.

I will say a prayer for you and your W, if you are OK with that.




<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you were to say yes, ask her to video tape it and play it every morning when you wake up, after all it would play in your mind for the rest of your life so you mise well have all the details right. My first of many many major concerns is that she is trying to save her conscience from an action that she's already done. Having affairs will not provide positively to your marriage. You may tell her

"I cannot stop you from having an affair, however, I have set up marital councelling for us with Dr. So and So to work on the problems in our marriage that have led us to this place, I, personally, would like to work on building a strong marriage not tearing apart a family."

Then she has a choice and it's hers to make. If she agrees to working on the marriage then you are going to have to ask her to temporarily suspend her nights out and have absolutely no contact with this man she's already had an affair with.

Not sure yet. I think so. But you never know until it's done. I can honestly say that I trust her and her need to communicate about this means something positive. I like the advice above about finding-out the root of this issue. And somehow channeling the need elsewhere. But , if she needs this, I don't want to stand in her way. It would only cage her more and make her recent me perhaps.

I agree that you should take the Emotional Needs Questionnaire together. I'm guessing that your wife has unmet emotional needs and that sex isn't at the top of the list. Just maybe recreational companionship, affection and admiration are.

Are you familiar with the Policy of Undivided Attention? Is your marriage getting 15 hours per week or are you spending too much time apart?

Remember that your most favourite moments should be spent together. If your wife is having more fun outside of the marriage that in it, you're in for some trouble.


Just maybe this is a cry for help. What does your wife say she needs from you?


Mrs. W8ing

Different strokes for different strokes but are you sure that you're really ok with this? Are you sure she hasn't worn you down and you feel like you've lost your core and self respect and are willing to say ok to anything she wants? (sort of like a male version of battered woman's syndrome?)

You say you trust her. Yet she kissed this guy of her own will and without permission from you, right? She was approached by this guy and was tempted. Yet she choose to go back to that same place where he'd be 4 nights in a row, right? At that point it's not trouble looking for her, it's her playing with trouble/fire. I think you should really review if she is trust-worthy or not.

Her thinking is very loose if you ask me. I mean... you really have to ask yourself what IS your marriage? You are going to look outside of sexual satisfaction, possibly emotional satisfaction, obviously comittment has been weakened. Past promises (wedding vows) broken. I mean... what is it that your wife or you are going to stand for? What is your identity as a couple?

If I were in your shoes I'd do one of two things. Divorce her for not possessing the values and common sense that would have allowed for you to have a marriage. Or, give up on your marriage totally, tell her you are only staying married for the sake of the children. That you will no longer sleep with her or rely on her for emotional support or love and go find women (an affair) that will fill that need and then divorce her just as soon as your youngest kid graduated from highschool.

Spanx, these particular quotes stood out to me, and I found them very disturbing.

I must agree with everyone else that adultery will not help your marriage in any way. She's kissed this man, and has been seeing him at the club for some time now. Obviously, they have a relationship already, tho perhaps without sex. You already have a problem -- aside from deciding how to answer her selfish request. Don't be fooled that once she does it "just this one time" that her itch will go away. It'll just open up the flood gates, bro. That it will.

I really, really feel for you, Spanx. You've been put in a terribly unfair and difficult situation. Personally, I think you should request that you both visit a good pro-marriage MC for X months before you will consider making a decision on her request. Likely she'll balk at that, but that'll show you where her interests really are at this point.

I concur that His Needs/Her Needs would be very helpful to you. As would a call to Steve Harley or Jennifer.

Good luck to you, Spanx. Don't give in to this just because you think it'll make her happy. It won't, and you shouldn't. Giving away the integrity and sanctity of your marriage for a cheap thrill is a bad idea.

Lori

From what I understand, she's always been the kind of girl that gets her social and fun release from clubbing. It's in her make-up. It's not like she's looking for sex out at the clubs. It's her way of escaping and being part of subculture. Why was she out four nights in one week? Prolly because the pressures of our household are getting out of control. Why without me? Because we can't always get a sitter and she needs non-me time too. And I'm not exactly a ball of fun at the clubs anyway. I spend the whole night looking at the ceiling. Perhaps, my disengagement emotionally needs some addressing.

Over the time I've been here, I've seen several similar requests really blow up. Unfortunately, the only one who's name I can recall was probably the least similar to your situation. YourW seems to have an attachment to a particular man, vs a more general interest in exploring...and your W is instigating it...still, you might find some of his posts interesting...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...true#Post276041

My wife says she needs me to be more emotional present and involved with our household. I need to laugh, cry and get angry. Express myself more.

I do fear her going out too much without me. I love the comment about I should be spending time with her when she's engaged with fun stuff. the stuff she loves most. We need to experience that stuff together (and apart).

There's a balancing act. I can't control her. I can't let things get too lose and out of control. That's how I drifted away from my first marriage. While I trust her when she says she'll come home to me always. I can't help think I should be inserting myself into some of these moments so too much doesn't pass without enough shared experiences outside of our child-care and household needs that we drift apart. A strong marriage and relationship should be able to make things work.

You say several things that bother me. For one, you say "you never know till it's done" but I'm sure you also realize this is one of those things that once it's done, you can't undo. You buy a car and decide it's a gas guzzler, you can always take it back with little or no harm. But your wife sleeping with another man and it turns out you can't handle it... you can never undo it. Is that seriously something you're willing to risk?!! Is your marriage not more precious and fragile than to treat it soo cavalierly?

People feel caged all the time. There's a correct way and incorrect way to feel free and let off steam. If your wife didn't have sex with you for a year, you have the choice to go have an affair, or to masterbate. One may not be as good as the other but at least with masterbation you take care of the need in a way that doesn't hurt your wife, compromise your integrity or comittment to her, etc etc.

There are 1,000 ways for your wife to feel less caged including going out to dinner with female friends, taking up a sport/hobbie, spending some time at her parents or brother/sister's house, getting a part time job... and if the need IS sexual, there's the option of her viewing porn or even some much kinkier things where she could dabble in that world but not physically get involved herself. Going out to nightclubs and sleeping with someone besides her husband is not the correct way to do it.

I hear ya all. Thanks so far for the advice. There are some open people here. I would like to explore the issues with her before she does anything. It could just be a case of her needing something I can't give her. That doesn't mean we should divorce. Considering my past, I shouldn't be shocked to the reasons she's needing this. I've been there and then gone home to my wife. Granted, I had issues and I finaly got divorced... in this case, I'd much rather challenge this head-on and see what can be done to resolve some deep-rooted issues between us. Perhaps, the kiss was my wake-up call to fix my end of stuff? I just hope we can work through the core issues before something stupid happens... And I'm not saying her need is stupid.. I'm just expressing that there's an unknown with the topic and nobody can really predict how it would turn-out. REALLY. Because life and people are unpredictable.

I've had multiple conversations about this with friends and my wife. We speak every day about it. Over the course of the week since, I've gained a better understanding of what's what. I don't know everything. But I know this one thing. This has caused me to open my eyes to what's wrong. I can't solve every issue overnight. But I can finally see things clearly and I care enough to seek solutions to come out on top.... ohh wait... I like her on top :-)

It's said that the only people sicker than a sick person is the people living with that person. (((Spank))) Enabling her self demand will never promote a good marriage. The core of the issue is rotten and nothing good can come of it however bad can seep from it at all cracks.

Your marriage has issues, no doubt. A symptom of that is your wife clubbing. Another symptom is her kissing another dude (which I would probably choose not to believe). Another symptom is her withing to bump uglies with this other dude. You'll notice those are all symptoms. Where is the problem, that is what needs treatment.

I think you are going to have to look at some basic facts right now real fast and in a hurry. Your wife is in a physical affair (whether or not they've done it or not is not really relivant) that spawned from an emotional affair. She has taken from the marriage that what was intended for the marriage, her emotions. If in any way you allow this to continue than you add to her abandonment of the marriage and become a willing partner in the destruction of the instituation of marriage.

To me that she's expressed this desire tells me that she's already done it and is looking to ease her guilt or that she is on the verge. Either way it has to be stopped RIGHT NOW, probided you wish to save your marriage and salvage any chance of a recovery.

There are various means to stopping affairs. An obvious effort should be on getting her and yourself into counselling. Another route could be to expose their affair, especially if he's a married dude. But no matter what, DO NOT ENABLE BAD BEHAVIOR and expect good results......

A bunch of you keep saying don't allow it.
What can I do? I can tell her what to do and what not to do. My stance is to give her permission and let her make up her own mind. I won't be the typical male [censored] that controls women. She needs to decide what's important. She needs to make the final call. It will mean 1000x more if she decides not to do this and come home to me. And the fact that she's open about it and communicating means even more.

I plan on talking more to her about this. I'll do whatever I can to understand the root and help her through it in any way I can. The rest is all her.

I agree that once it's done you can't take it back. Quite honestly, I don't know exactly how I'll feel. It's very hard to think about. But other times, I'm cool with it.

We're seeking marriage counciling now. It would be my request that nothing happens until we get some issues resolved to know exactly what's going on. Maybe then, we'll have more answers and be able to make informed decisions.

Excellent choice.

Show her this, too:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html

Borrowing from the other thread
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1. 3 years ago I noticed my W seemed to be distant and I noticed a lack of affection and this really started to bother me. I couldnt get her to talk.

2. Shortly after I found out that she was searching for an old BF and answered a Classmates.com profile with "looking to hook up with an old flame" before her HS reunion. I looked the other way thinking it would blow over and then had an angry outburst after the reunion. BTW he didnt show. Trust became a big issue after this because I snooped and she did this behind my back.

3. Arguments escalated over the next couple of years with us bringing up a lot of old stuff. She said once in anger that she called a lawyer.

4. Lack of affection continued until I suggested we open the marriage up to her. I sensed she was feeling "middle aged" at 38. The open marriage really brought us closer and we had a lot of fun...for awhile.
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This goes deeper into the point I was making earlier. This unhealthy way of "feeling free" worked for them for a while. At first, it even seemed good. Let's say you have a back injury and you take heroine to kill the pain. In the early stages, it might even seem like a good thing! The pain is gone!! But soon, all the side-effects of doing the wrong thing to solve a problem emerges. I strongly suspect it will be the same with your wife and you. She will be happy for a short while. But when you see all the additional problem that stem from the situation, it'll be too big of a mess to know how to fix it.

I'm sorry brother. You've got it all turned around in your head. There's a difference between telling someone exactly what it is that you want and are not comfortable with, not giving your blessing or permission, and FORCING someone to do what you want. Strapping a chastedy belt on her or following her around or taking away her car or things like that.... that's her wanting to go against your will and you controlling things around her to keep her from excersising her own will. But to say "NO, I am not ok with you sleeping with another man; I can not stay married to you if that's what you do".... that may conflict with what she wants to do... but it's not forcing her to do anything. She is free to excersise whatever will she wants; however that choice will have a consequence in terms of you being willing to have a relatioinship with her.

I ask you to really think about this and form a crystal clean idea about this because if you don't, everything is this hazy foggy area where each of you are allowed to do whatever it is you please and the other has no right to be opposed. It's the "everything goes" mentality and we all know that doesn't work. Even the hippies abandonded those ideas as they got older and had families and realized it simply doesn't work for a marriage/raising good cildren.

First, don't enable bad behavior.


Definately your choice however if you say "Honey, it's ok for you to screw so and so" and she does it then she is only doing what you said was OK to do. You have taken your power away. You can't say "How could you?" because you've told her how. Be honest. Hey, maybe your into letting your wife do her thang as long as she throws you a crumb every now and then, that's your choice. BUT if you're not 100% OK with it then if nothing else BE HONEST. I was only 1/2 joking about having her video tape it. PS. If you've screwed up in the past, that doesn't write the check for her to screw up now, two wrongs don't make a right.


Many people see various similarities between affairs and addiction. She may not possess the power to decide and it would be easier to stay in her addiction rather than deal with the problems. If you enable her to do so, I would pretty much bet on it. No different than buying a alcoholic a drink hoping he won't drink it.....