They are both college age, Pep

any marriages on their horizon this year?

To the ladies I'd like for you to imagine for a minute and wonder how you would feel if hospitals routinely mixed up babies and women were raising babies that were not the ones they gave birth? Imagine that those same hospitals were being protected because to reveal the truth would do great harm to the children? How would YOU feel?

I'll play this one for you...

I have a middle child....
looks nothing like me or his father in coloring...

tow-head all the way...

not me
not hubby....

and he has this amazing mind with puzzles and buildings...

not me
not hubby....

we joke about it...

are you sure he's ours....

no affair on my part....

so we have entertained the idea...
in jest he's not ours...

must be a mix up..
for how would we ever get such a brilliant little six year old...

the answer to your question is he is mine/ours?...
which he is....
is no need to know...

and if I ever thought that there could be a knock at the door stating we mixed up....
I would move heaven and earth..so as not to lose my son...and never ever feel a need to disrupt this child I so called birthed..for in my mind I already have that child...
even if it turned out I did not....bring him in to this world...

he is our son..period...from the second we met him...

if that makes me dishonest..
you'd have to find me on a mountain in Tibet to take him away from us and call me a liar....

ARK^^

I did not pass either of our children through my body ... they came to me through my soul

That is a lovely way to put it...have you shared those words with them? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Ark,

I'm affraid I did a very poor job of wording the question correctly, so let me rephrase it. How would you feel towards the hospital that deliberately misled you from the very beginning in making you beleive that the child you gave birth was biologically yours when it really was not? Furthermore, how would you feel to find out that there was no law that would punish the hospital for doing this to you?

TMCM

nope I would make NO MOVE that put my contact with MY child in one ounce of danger...

not a peep or a squeak..

there'd be no point

I work in a hospital and mistakes happen....
and the reality of this really occuring are slim slim slim to none....

hospital and workers who act with intent to harm and hospitals that practice gross negligence in death and permanent injury...
is a lot different than the outcome being potentially destroying a childs foundation.
disrupting the family unit is worse than the original mistake....ten thousand fold...

i am grateful for my son
i am grateful for the hospital the delivered him from me..
and if he came not from ...
i would still be grateful for having him in my life
period....

I have no great biological connection to my children...
I don't love them because I birthed them..
I love them because they are of me....
doesn't matter if they are from me or not....

crap...
birthing is over-rated....

it is meeting the child for the first time that makes your soul sing...doesn't matter where that baby is or came from before that meeting.....

ARK^^

I have friends that have just returned from the a battle all the way to the Supreme Court. Their son learned after the birth of their second child that his wife was having an affair throughout(and prior to)their marriage with his first cousin.

The cousin claims to be the parent of the second child.

My friend's son is fighting AGAINST DNA testing for the good of the child. To him, this IS his child as he has thought him to be 3 years ago at his birth.

To change this would disrupt the childs entire life. They are fighting that there are cases where DNA testing is NOT in the best interest of the child.

Susan

Ladies,

You are missing the point. It is NOT that one could not love a child that was the product of an extra-marital affair and passed off as biologically ones own. Your comments prove that love knows no DNA. No, the problem is that the women who perpetrate this monstrous deception get off scott free. Until DNA testing is part of every birth in this country, every father to be should insist on having one done, not just for his sake but for the innocent child who ends being the greatest victim years after the truth comes out.

TMCM

toomuchcoffee..

you asked a question about a hospital mistake....

which is not equal to women who decieve...

but you are the one that asked the question..
don't get upset with answer specific to a question you asked.....


you also said...

Until DNA testing is part of every birth in this country, every father to be should insist on having one done, not just for his sake but for the innocent child who ends being the greatest victim years after the truth comes out.

if that was the case I would not have any children..for I would not lay down with a man who viewed me with such deception...

that is a very very bleak view of women

I would say that statistically speaking there are more MEN who abandon their children and shirk monetary and emotional support than there are women who hide paternity...

and these men cause more damage to children
and greater risk in the here and now...then children having a supportive parent except absence of their genes.....unbeknownest to them....

ARK

who should pay for the dna testing..

all these heathenistic women that these men feel strong enough to bed...but don't trust enough that they aren't sleeping around on them.....

ARKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just take a small sample from a "segement" of ***some*** internet message board and you can see this bear out.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Here is some interesting info:

Canadian Children's Rights Council

Mandated DNA testing and matching would benefit everyone. This eliminates the potential for "surprises" later and allows all parties to make informed decisions from the very beginning.

The only possible reason for not advocating this would be to preserve a woman's ability to perpetrate paternity fraud. An honest woman need not fear such a precaution and should actually welcome this opportunity to demonstrate her fidelity.

As we always like to say around here...those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

Men and women are routinely tested for STDs prior to marriage or even SF. We all think it's a good idea. Would you rather we just trusted each other about potential HIV infections as well?

What about pre-nups?

Low

Again, you obfuscate the issue, ark. I don't see how this has ANY bearing on the discussion at hand.

One ADVANTAGE to mandatory DNA testing is that MEN could be more easily held accountable for their progeny rather than spend years holding up support arguing paternity.

Paternity testing is relatively inexpensive. It should be part of the normal battery of tests performed on infants. DNA coding should be part of everyone's birth record, allowing positve identification of all adults.

Low

No, Pep...no marriages anytime soon...and I hope it stays that way for a while.

My 2 cents – automatic DNA paternity testing would be fine. Good for all the reasons stated already.

I read somewhere that at least, maybe more, 10% of all children born within an M in the USA are in fact an OC. The presumed father is in fact cuckolded (look up the definition - its' not flattering.)

Perhaps this DNA testing could be automatic unless both parents (presumed sire, that is) agree to waive it.

OTOH, this might increase the incidence of secret abortions. That would be a very bad side effect, IMO.

Ark,

Nobody is disputing that there are deadbeat fathers who do great damage to their children by abandoning them, but there are at least laws on the books that aggresively pursue these individuals and when they find them, make them pay child support through the nose. I and most responsible fathers, have ABSOLUTELY NO SIMPATHY for these 'men' and in my opinion deserve to pay more. But by the same token,Where are the laws that go after these women to make them pay for what they have done?


Of course it is but lets not ignore the reality that female infidelity has risen in the last decades and in younger age groups it is almost on a par with male infidelity. This means that more OC will be born and more men will be deceived in raising children that are not theirs. You may be interested in reading the following article excerpt:

In Genetic Testing for Paternity, Law Often Lags Behind Science, New York Times, March 11, 2001

"According to the American Association of Blood Banks, 280,000 paternity tests were conducted in 1999, three times as many as a decade earlier. And in 28 percent of the tests, the man tested was found not to be the father."

IF these figures are correct then your contention that it is a very small group of women who deceive their H regarding the paternity of their child is wrong.

Women who do the right thing and confess to their H that they may be carrying another man's child are NOT the problem. They are giving their H their choice to remain married or to divorce them.

I'm not naive enough to beleive that if harsh laws against these women who purposely conceal the truth about their child's paternity, that it would stop future married women from getting pregnant with their lover's child. But it would certainly give pause to many of these women enough to realize that they could no longer hide under broad statement 'in the best interests of the child' anymore.


For now, the father since he is the one that stands to lose the most financially and emotionally.

TMCM

Agreed about this increase in abortions. Also, we'll start seeing children born "off the grid" and not receiving adequate pre and post natal care.

However, we would have to balance the benefits of guaranteed identity against the above bad actions. Overall, children will benefit from knowing their genetic identity.

We have to be carefuls of the stats, TMCM...this 28% is yielded from order tests, so it's likely there was a suspicion involved to begin with. That would skew the number high.

The number is conservatively estimated to be around 16% for ALL paternity...not just married.

There was a "New Twilight Zone" episode about 20 years ago that involved a mandatory IQ test of kids about 12 years old or so in an Orwellian fu2re society. The story centered around a family with one very bright son. His parents were really apprehensive about the test, but the boy was excited. He got a high score, and was never seen again.

Granted, not the same kind of thing, but I really wonder about the wisdom of making things like DNA tests mandatory. Can you imagine the mood in the delivery room? Imagine the H being suspiscious of his W while helping her with her breathing. Imagine a repentant FWW, uncertain of who's baby she's delivering, awaiting the outcome of a test 2 determine her fu2re?

I still have this utopian hope that at least my little corner of the universe will choose, out of the goodness of their hearts, 2 just be truthful and honest at all times.

I'm pretty sure my kids are mine. They're silly like I am. They look a bit like me (though my daughter doesn't have a beard). I'm also pretty sure they're my W's.

-ol' 2long