Hey,

based on my new understanding of MB, as expressed on this thread, I have a new sig.

The right reason is always love

So If I belive that revealing an affair to my wife might lead to divorce, and it is pretty well proven that divorce HARMS children, then I am perfectly justified in hiding my affair until my children are adults. Then I can tell my wife about my past affair.

didnt' see a soul say that here...
I know I said that grownups must not apply adult coping and processing mechanisms to children...and deny the real effect of divorce..or any other adult crap...

harm comes from treating children like adults and expecting them handle and or respond like adults....

So, to sum it up Harley believes that the cuckolded man should be told AND the child should be told.

and yet in both his advice letters...
all subjects are in counseling...able to assist the child in their pain...not drowning in their own......

not quite the foundation of the original post...
I believe dr. harley would work to get them to some point of stability..before disclosing...

don't tell me that dr's don't prioritize families in crisis...
and sometimes put off issues even if the issues are true...

and comfortably numb...if you are trying to apply global generalizations to MY opinion about a specific case and then try to promote as some mission..it's not even close to the truth............


ARK

Ark,

If your intention is to demonstrate to your H that you want NO ONE, including him, to EVER, EVER question your honesty with regards to the paternity of your children and that your children are biologically his, then INMNSHO you should. Chances are very good that he may even stop you from doing this, for your willingness to prove your honesty and trustworthiness may be more than enough proof for him.

TMCM

This is becoming less and less true in the age of accurate DNA testing.

I would venture that the majority of men who have raised and bonded with a child would CHOOSE to continue treating that child as theirs. But knowledge of true paternity may enable him to recover some of the costs involved with fraudulent fatherhood.

Let's say, hypothetically, that Bill Gates fathered my daughter AND KNEW IT. He and my W conspire to keep this secret from me.

I would still love the child I raised as my daughter...but you can be dog-gone sure I'm going after Bill...he owes me...and he owes HIS daughter.

In THIS post we ARE talking about known truth...

"didnt' see a soul say that here..."

No, but it is a logical extension of your argument.

ARK,

So let me get your argument straight before I do something so terrible as fail to understand your point again.

This man should perhaps be told, sometime in the future, that he may be rasing a child that isn't his.

This child should be told, sometime in the future, that who he thinks is his bio-father may not be.

If this is what you are saying then we mostly agree. We take issue with the "when" and not the "what".

I don't think there will ever be a good time to reveal this information. It will always have the potential to damage both this man and this boy. This is no excuse for not telling either the truth though.

If you belive differently, then so be it.

I don't think there will ever be a good time to reveal this information.

right but there definitley could be a worse time..
and mom in the hospital pretty much makes it a worse time in my opinion...

so they are excuses for not telling the truth NOW in MY opinon in THIS CASE...

which somehow makes me a puppy kicker....

and over and over and over here you see WS belittle and misunderstand the EFFECTS of divorce and AFFAIRS on their children by applying adult thought and coping processes on to their children...

and this is dangerous.....
very dangerous...
which has no LEAP of logic to say affairs should not be exposed....

which I didnt say...
but I believe I have once or twice here...when violence was a real real threat

I believe I have advised that until safe...one should not reveal.....
on a specific case
to a specific post...

comfortably numb...you can and you may mis-understand my position...and you may even think my position is crap...it is only my opinion....
but that doesnt mean you should sarcastically globally address it....
you got a problem with something I said...I have no problem in discussing or agreeing to disagree....or whatever the outcome...


ARK

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Why would I feel disrespected by a simple difference of opinion?

makes no sense ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

--------------------
if you want REAL coaching ~~~> call the Harleys 1-888-639-1639

I suppose I used the "wrong" word as "disrespected."

Your foster care sitch is totally different to this sitch.
As you fully know and agree to pay for the raising of the children.

Because the EXW revealed the info that the child is infact OM, I believe Nick is responsible to reveal it to the EXH.

And "if" paternity test showed true, that the EXH was not the true father of the child....handle it with care, love, and honesty.

How would you feel if you were paying a bill for 15 yrs that you didn't have to because of a LIE?

How would you feel if you were raising a child for 15yrs you "thought" was always yours, come to find out it was all a LIE.

In this sitch....the adults that have been betrayed, ripped off, and LIED too are just as important as the child!!!
They should all know the truth!!!
And it should be handled with attorneys, and counselors present, with the utmost of care.

You know....this really was a "no-brainer" for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

expect this no brainer...
has no one stable enough to get attorneys...counselors or the utmost care....based on the limited information offered....

How would you feel if you were raising a child for 15yrs you "thought" was always yours, come to find out it was all a LIE

I would feel grateful for being given the opportunity to being part of that child....
period...

ark

How would you feel if you were paying a bill for 15 yrs that you didn't have to because of a LIE?

pissed off

How would you feel if you were raising a child for 15yrs you "thought" was always yours, come to find out it was all a LIE.

I cannot relate to this question at all, but I'll try to answer anyway.

I would feel very conflicted and very deceived.

In this sitch....the adults that have been betrayed, ripped off, and LIED too are just as important as the child!!!

OK

They should all know the truth!!!
And it should be handled with attorneys, and counselors present, with the utmost of care.

OK

You know....this really was a "no-brainer" for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I can tell <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Amen!

..but I'd still want to know

"and over and over and over here you see WS belittle and misunderstand the EFFECTS of divorce and AFFAIRS on their children by applying adult thought and coping processes on to their children...

and this is dangerous.....
very dangerous...
which has no LEAP of logic to say affairs should not be exposed...."

I have never, ever diminished the effect that divorce has on kids, never. You will have to shop that argument somewhere else.

This is what I don't get.

It the situation on this thread you are advocating not telling the truth (at this time I guess) about paternity because of the possible repercussions on a child.

How is this different from not disclosing an affair (at this time) because of the possible repercussions on a child, given:

1) A possible/likely result of exposing an affair is divorce.
2) Divorce hurts kids.
3) Study after study indicate that divorced fathers spend less time with their kids that married fathers. This hurts kids.
4) Divorce make everyone involved poorer, thus hurting kids.

What troubles me is how you can be so adamant about truth in one situation and actually support continued deception in the other given that both situations have the potential effect of damaging kids.

It is hard for me to rationalize how in one situation truth is noble and the other anathema.

I have never, ever diminished the effect that divorce had on kids, never. You will have to shop that argument somewhere else

I never said you did....

It the situation on this thread you are advocating not telling the truth (at this time I guess) about paternity because of the possible repercussions on a child.



because of repercussions of child....partly...but most importantly because right now in this time there are NO NO NO adults capable of handling the child with care that would be needed..............

if that non dad who has been dad pulls out...which he might...that kid is left with NO ONE>....

How is this different from not disclosing an affair (at this time) because of the possible repercussions on a child, given:

in an affair the fallout is not an instant lightening bolt....of no going back pain....
it is usually an exchange of information from atleast one decent caring adult...in the post that started this the only caring decent adult is the one we are putting in jeoparday....

not to say the poster isn't caring....but he isn't MOM or DAD
and this boy needs someone to nurture him through the trauma
that he connects with...like his mom....


and no matter the outcome..in the case of affairs...

divorce, seperation, together..you are still have a mom and dad...
logistically\
genetically.....

they are still your mom and dad.....even if they are crappy you are still connected..

What troubles me is how you can be so adamant about truth in one situation and actually support continued deception in the other given that both situations have the potential effect of damaging kids.

say guy is having an affair...
guy stops affair
guy plans on telling wife TODAY of affair...

wifes mom dies tragically that day...

my advice...
don't tell today...

am I perpetuating a lie...
I guess....
but it would still be my advice....

in this case comfortably which is the only one to which I am answering hold off on telling the truth....

the mom is not able to help her son deal with his pain...which I believe is even deeper and more damaging than an affair/divorce because it changes EVERYTHING in the known world to that child...it will rock his core center even more than affair or divorce....deeper I believe than divorce...

kids know kids who went through and survived divorce..
that's an important things to kids..
am i the only one?..
you don't know a lot of kids who lose parents and sit around school talking about it...

which is not to say that children don't suffer horrible things in their lives...

hurricanes
death
sickness
divorce
affairs...

but in those issues remains a constant foundation...

dad is dad
mom is mom

it requires great professional care to divulge such things to a fifteen year old boy...

and for the umpteeth time the information offered on that post specific to my opinion was about a third party divulging to the dad in quesstion...

not even the mom...who is the one that needs to divulge if it is to be done lovingly...as loworbit agrees it should..

in that post the mom isn't capable of doing that.....

so to then apply to me gross leaps that are not applicable to other cases and post these grand ideas about my philosophies is offensive to me...

and even if you find my philosophies offensive don't read my posts....

look at what I found out today..
because I am female...I should prove paternity on my children....
and expect that everyone views me as a cheater till proven innocent...

that paternity testing is the only way to prove fidelity...to my vows...


waht I am also saying again and again...

that... we are getting a divorce
or
mom had an affair...

hurts kids...

but dad is not our dad...

hurts on a deeper psychological level and NOT equal with the other two...

again that's my opinion and i am not diminshing the pain of any of that crap....

AND
I do believe people saying tell no matter the crisis in the kids life do not understand the severity of psychological impact......of I'm not your real dad...vs mom had an affair...

people are like nonchalantly in the name of truth tell...
without exploring what coping mechanisms are in place to support and help the kid....
but tell tell tell
and if the kid crumbles under the weight...atleast the truth is spoken....
which in my opinon is even a worse evil that putting that bit off till there is one stand up structure adult by his side ready to pick him up...

and believing in divulging and expecting that the kid will handle and deal is the same as some people expecting kids to just handle and deal with a lot of things....like divorce...is a huge mistake

ARK

You know, you sure use hyperbole when is suits you, but you take great umbrage if someone reciprocates. I wonder why?

Example: "look at what I found out today..
because I am female...I should prove paternity on my children....
and expect that everyone views me as a cheater till proven innocent..."

The only one that posted anything even close to this was you. No one said that to you. That was all you.

And frankly, I will read what I wish. I don't need your permission to read your posts, even if I don't agree with what you are saying. And I don’t here.

And if I remember correctly this question in this post was should someone tell the “father” that he may not be the bio-Dad. The question never was should someone tell the kid. You seem to always drive the conversation in that direction, but I don’t think that that was the original question. I could be wrong.

So, it's ok to hurt the kids a little? Only if you think they'll be ok?

How do you know you won't be wrong? How do you know the betrayed wife won't snap and murder her H, eliminating both parents? Has been known to happen...

Trying telling a kid who's only getting to see dad every other weekend that dad is still dad just like always.

Try selling this rationale to a man who's been deceived for years that you didn't tell him because "the time wasn't right"

No one has the right to keep information about the genetic identity of children I'm raising from me. No one has the right to make important life decisions like this for me.

Low

We're recycling...time to end.

I think we've learned alot today

here's what toomuch told me..

If a mandatory DNA test was carried out immediately after every birth, it would blow the covers and expose the affair and a decision by BOTH spouses could eventually be made to either rebuild the marriage or end it.

so therefor toomuch I should have my children tested...

ARK^^


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Ark,

If your intention is to demonstrate to your H that you want NO ONE, including him, to EVER, EVER question your honesty with regards to the paternity of your children and that your children are biologically his, then INMNSHO you should. Chances are very good that he may even stop you from doing this, for your willingness to prove your honesty and trustworthiness may be more than enough proof for him.

TMCM

how is that hyperbole....?
honestly how?

And if I remember correctly this question in this post was should someone tell the “father” that he may not be the bio-Dad. The question never was should someone tell the kid. You seem to always drive the conversation in that direction, but I don’t think that that was the original question. I could be wrong.


I ALWAYS drive a conversation in THAT direction..
what does that mean...

dad finds out he's not real dad...

dad is really really upset with mom and hurting himself..

problem is that fifteen year old needs dad right now to be focused on his needs....
but dad's now wrestling his own demons...

and moms back in the pcychiatric hospital...

whose there for son...
I think the potential for there to be some disruption in father son relationship a potential outcome worthy of looking at...

I have no desire to be controversal for no reason
I have no desire to do anything but state my opinion...

I do think it is unfair to be accused of all these out there leaps....
and your post about your signature line relating to me directly was mean

ARK

Sorry, I posted this twice accidently.

I guess a lot of the problem us guys have is a lot of women are advocating deceit and lying if it suits them. They hide behind the best interest of the child.

Was it the best interest of the child that caused her to cheat and betray their H? Pretty selective in their protecting of the child.

If a man decided he does not want to support a cheating wife and her love child that should be his choice. Her lover should support it if that is what he chooses.

Using the logic presented here Affairs should not be disclosed becuase it is not in the best interest of the child. A BS may want to divorce the WS and cause harm thru the divorce. I guess that is why men feel like a paycheck in their marriage. This thread has really changed my thinking on things. It is an eye opener.

This is the first post from the original thread that Low Orbit was referring to when he started this thread.
Is this correct LO?

nickatnite
Junior Member


Reged: 10/31/05
Posts: 15

tell wife's ex-husband that his son is NOT his?
#2876541 - 12/03/05 11:01 PM

I'll try to keep it short.
I recently found out that my wife's oldest son was not her ex husband's. She had an affair on him and accidentally got pregnant. She told her husband that it was his. Her ex husband still thinks it's his son. (Son is 15). He pays child support.
During that marriage, she cheated again and got pregnant. She put the baby up for adoption. It resulted in a separation. Later they got back together and had a child... accident. Years later they divorced because she cheated again.
A year later we started dating. 2 months later she got pregnant... another accident. I decided to "do the right thing" and married her.
5 years later she cheated on me and here we are.

2 days ago she confessed that each of her pregnancies were not accidents. She went off of the pill on purpose.

I love my wife dearly. But her obvious mental issues make me sick to my stomach. She shows little remorse or shame for what she has done. She has justifications for all her poor choices. She's seen several therapists over the years but none seem to have helped her. One therapist diagnosed her with Borderline Personality Disorder. I read up on this disorder and it seems recovery is a long and painful road.... if it is even possible. Our future looks very grim but I will exhaust all avenue's before giving up on our marriage.

Should I tell her ex husband the truth? Does he and her son deserve to know the truth... even if it will cause great pain?