***I think it's more important for her (the child) to know she can trust what you say, than that she thinks you are her real father.***

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm truly amazed that anyone on this site would disagree.
Mulan

Ladies,

How would you feel if one of your sons experienced this issue? Would you say to him "Oh well son, s**t happens. Deal with it".

TMCM

It depends on the amount of time that has passed.

If Dan was my son, I would feel toward Kate as I do right now, I love her dearly and she is now 21 years old. But she's not that mature, 21 is still a child in many ways.

But lets focus on Dan.

22 years ago his live-in lover betrayed him and led the world to believe he fathered their child. I always liked him, even had a little crush on him.

17-18 years ago she and Dan split up after their "second" child, truly his.

No one knew but her. 15 years ago I walked in on her and our cousin sharing a big secret, so I knew there was a secret and they didn't let me in on it. I had no idea what it could be. I told my husband but he didn't know either. She and I never saw eye to eye on a thing. She started dating a guy I nicknamed the "axe murderer". It stuck, we all referred to him that way.

Years go by and I forgot mostly all about the secret, except for an occasional wondering muse about it. But she and the axe murderer do more and more ignorant sh1t, culminating in bilking my husband's mother out of her house. ANGER. My husband and his brother are total mama's boys, (something I admire, since I lost my mom at too early an age. I couldn't be with a man who didn't dote on his mother. His mother has been a mom to me) they were livid with their sister. We tried to remedy the situation, I hired a lawyer, but it was too late. That was the last Holiday we spent with together as a family, the entire family broke up. H's brother eventually moved far away. H hasn't talked to his father since then either, the engineer behind it.

Time ticks on. One day husband and brother came home here enraged! Seems they had gone out drinking with drunken secret-carrying cousin who spilled the beans, "I thought you knew". In spite of both siding with Dan, it was their mother who implored them not to tell, not to hurt Kate.

I was not convinced. I gritted my teeth and spoke to my husband's sister. Of course, she said, I couldn't understand but she is born-again, and when she found out, she went to the biological father (him and I have never got along) and told him and he said he wasn't interested in raising a child, so she went home to Dan, who loved her. The compelling argument centered around Kate. Already overshadowed by her perfect younger sister, I couldn't deliver that blow. No one else is going to. H's sister won't tell him, and even knowing I intended to, still didn't come clean. I know she feels justified for whatever reason, and I don't care. She is a selfish spoiled person. I get along with her now for the sake of my nieces and nephew. Did I forget to mention 5 children, 4 fathers.

The relationship has been over for close to decades. They were never married. No other man claimed that child. He loves them both. For all intents and purposes he is her father. I don't know what else to say, except I would be ashamed to hurt him and my niece by coming forward when everyone is happy, they are both doing "better" than my sister-in-law whose life is in shambles and is now dating Dan's good-for-nothing brother since last summer. Karma's got her, and will continue to get her.

It's an accident that I know anything, and I don't want the knowledge. I don't understand what the honorable thing to do with it is. I don't see Dan going after CS, he has a successful life, his ex doesn't, you can't get blood from a stone. Wouldn't the 21 year old daughter have to agree to a DNA test at this point?

Let me tell you another story for those who use the medical angle. It doesn't wash with us. My husband's mother was born out-of-wedlock. As far as I know it was a very short affair, and may have been a one-night-stand. For all we know it may have been a rape. My husband's Grandmother we all loved dearly, bore my mother-in-law and never told a soul who the father was. When my mother-in-law was 5 years old, Nanny met the love of her life, and he married her and became a father to my mother-in-law. He loved her like his own child.

I tried to get Nanny to tell the secret before she died but she wouldn't go nowhere near revisiting mother-in-laws birth or young history. She died within a few months of our trying to get her to talk about it. She took that secret to her grave. It hasn't cost my mother-in-law or her children a great deal not to know their family medical history.

I can tell you that I know Kate's bio family pretty well, (too well for my taste) and they are a basically healthy lot. Bio-Father eats like crap, did a lot of drugs and had a drinking problem for years until he went dry drunk. There's no breast cancer, in the girls, his sisters, don't like those girls either, I certainly don't want them hos around me or my niece.

And after what the bio father pulled last year trying yet again to split me and my husband up, trying to interfere with our marriage since he has from day one, my husband and I both see him as a low-life. My husband, after a 25 year friendship, wants nothing to do with him. He just could never believe all those years that the man was really trying to split us up. Now he has no illusions.

My H wants me to leave it alone and forget it. I don't know if I can do that, I kinda doubt it. But now, when Kate is trying to get her life together as a young vulnerable single woman, she needs as much strength and as little devastation around her as possible.

I can be and have a responsibility to be Radically Honest with my husband with whom I exchanged vows, but

I don't have a Relationship with Kate's father, though I'm happy to see him on those exceedingly rare occasions I do. I don't give a rat's [censored] about Kate's mother. I would rather Kate's bio father wasn't. Dan is Kate's father in every way that matters now. I'm sorry he didn't get a choice, but I believe if he had been given a choice he would have adopted her. Why should I drop this A-Bomb on him 22 years after the fact when he is happy??

Only evil wins, if I were to act on this information now.

However, if I encounter such a situation in the future I will advocate for the truth, because when the A is in the present it is a lot different, to me. One size does not fit all, I guess I'm coming to conclude.

So Low, maybe I advised you wrongly before, if I advocated for Radical Honesty, I still think you did the right thing. I need to realize that each person's struggle is their own. The Harley plan is a great one to emulate, but you can't force fit something when it doesn't.

I believe you will come out of your marriage in 4-5 years a much happier man, though. You didn't seem happy in your marriage despite all the work you did, and I did truly admire you for all that you did to save it.

I think it comes down to doing the RIGHT THING. I didn't have the affair, I don't have any way to fix the pain the reveal will cause, and I don't want to lose my other little nieces which will be an inevitability, leaving those little ones without a much-needed support system.

I have no way to arrange for counseling and doubt anyone would get attorneys in this situation. The bio-father is broke by his rare disease that is causing him not to be able to work. It is not a genetic disease. It was caused by steroids ingestion.

Plus I'm worried what it could do to the career aspirations of Kate, and I don't see how Dan could use the information to create any happiness.

While my husband was in the hospital I began reading John Bradshaw's "Creating Love" to him. I just don't see how my reveal will create love. This is my H's Sister's responsibility and even knowing I would tell him she chose not to do it. My mother-in-law convinced me to keep quiet and that's yet another valued relationship I stand to lose for something that is accidental knowledge and not my business and I don't like the truth. I don't want my wonderful neice influenced by those ratbag ruthless awful jerry-springer people.

I'm more convinced than ever before not to tell. If I were Dan's mother I would feel exactly the same way. Not "deal with it", but it's water under the bridge and it will cause more harm than good. I don't want to hurt him.

If I had known back then, I would have TOLD back then!! If I could have stopped the Affair then I would have!! I have no uncertaintly about that. I always cared more for Dan than the mother. At 21 Kate still NEEDS the support of the most responsible parent she has. Her mother doesn't cut it, and regardless what you say, her relationship with Dan will change. That's what I can't live with or risk. I wish I never found out the truth.

I feel like the Hobbit. I'm going to have to hold this ring until I can take it where it belongs and I'm not there yet.

As long as there are liars and cheaters, telling the truth w/b hard t/d. Telling or not telling hurts. Which one hurts more? Well look at us as BS', the 'not knowing' causes our imagination to run wild and most of us figure the WS is some glamorous person 1000x better than us. Reality says that in most cases the OP is closer to scum than 1000x better than dirt and doesn't come near to the value of the BS and family.

There are lots of stories where telling the truth creates a huge debate. I can think of 5 instances of people I know right now. This problem is generations old.

There is no clear cut answer. Just keep in mind the wise saying: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

In our case, I wanted to know. Rather face reality than live with the unknown. I still do.

So for those that know me, keeping anything serious from me is not a good thing. U don't score any good friend points by diliberately keeping me in the dark.

My best advice? When unsure, ask.

JMHO,
L.

Masterful rationalizations, 10...

All of them irrelevent. All of them designed to help YOU sleep better at night.

The girl is an adult...you are treating her like a child or some kind of invalid. You've appointed yourself caretaker.

Her non-Bio dad has been bilked out of years of the truth. A much more horrific crime than what Kate's mother did to his mother.

Based on what you have written...You appear to be the RIGHT person, at the RIGHT time with the RIGHT reason.

Of course it is your decision...but you continue to perpetrate a crime that ONLY women can commit...

More reason than ever for DNA testing at birth... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

BTW, I also think telling my wife was the right thing. I've only been offering the opposite as a way of illuminating how we can rationalize hypocrisy...

I agree, Orchid

The corrollary is in Aphelion's sig line...I'd rather live with uncertainty than to live with a lie.

Nevermind, it's pointless. They'll never understand, never.

TMCM

You don't think it would be preferable for me to tell and RELIEVE myself of this unasked-for burden?


Where did you get the idea that Dan is a freind? I told you I've seen him twice in more than 15 years.

Remember how they used to kill the messenger?

This is not my place to tell. Where do you get off telling me it's MY responsibility to tell?

YOu are not seeing it from my niece's side.

Of course I'm seeing it from the family's side. Maybe I have been brainwashed. I'll Remind you that my husband's brother knew of my husband's wife (now x) having an affair behind my husband's back for A YEAR and didn't tell him.

That marriage was destroyed, hence ours, My First.

You are not Dan. Sorry you're anger at your betrayals (like my own) does not justify ruining my niece's life. And it could ruin her life.

She's in college. I'm in college. My semester is trashed as a result of my husband's affair, I've had to go ADs and anti-anxiety medications, I had a recent breast cancer scare that's technically not over.. My college career may be over, we'll have to see. At 21 sorry, boys, she isn't an adult she still lives at home, with one or the other. There is no financial recourse for Dan. No lawyer's going to get crap outta that family it's been decimated. This is not my responsibility. I didn't ****** that ******, nor did I pass off the child to anyone, nor would I ever have done so, or by 43 I would have already. No one in my world wants me to tell him, and you don't seem to give a rats [censored] about my 7 and 9 year old nieces that will be cut off from me and my husband. You don't get how terrible that will be either do you? Scott's sister is a vindictive woman, and make no mistake I won't see those children again, nor do I have any right to, as I'm only the aunt. The other children suffered badly from our being cut out of their lives for their teen years.

Suppose he doesn't believe me, and I lose everything for nothing? I told you all this has happened to me twice before.

I would not admire you for doing this in my place.


But if i were truly dishonest I could just go along with you to get along and tell you I was going to tell no matter who gets hurt. Why can't he LOOK at her and see she's not his daughter? Maybe cuz he doesn't WANT to know?

10S,

You could deliver the truth anonymously. Have you thought about that?

TMCM

Let me ask you LO, and TMCM,

Exactly what would you DO with this information once you got it, and don't be wishy washy. YOu imagine someone you barely know coming to you and telling you oldest child is not yours.

Imagine the hurt, the pain, and the ANGER as if it is real.

Don't tell me your thoughts won't be reflected with the child when she is with you. I have a son in his 20s and believe me he's still a kid. He still needs a hug, he still needs to look at me and see a softness of love in my eyes, and pride in who he is.

Kate is Dan's daughter in every way that counts.

So are you going to devastate her by suing her mother for child support? That'll help create LOVE, won't it. UP until now, you two were at least civil. I see that making Kate real happy.

Do what you gotta do. I'm not going to be part of it.

YOu think I rationalize? I think to do such a thing is pure evil, I'd be erring on the side of the devil, and you just may be acting as his agents in this case. Truth is not always love and not always Good.

I might contact Dan's mother though. I think she will have his and Kate's best interest at heart.

By the way when I was advocating to tell 4 years ago, I used almost all your same arguments. I didn't want her to find out and be pissed especially since at that time I thought she may never have the opportunity to meet her bio-dad as he was pretty ill at the time. I contacted him and asked if he would meet her. This was what led to my husband spending the summer with him last summer, and led to my husband's one night stand with MOW in Sick Friend's spare bedroom behind my back, and then it evolving into an ongoing sexual fling for the whole summer. His A rocked my world I would have been better off not knowing. TRUTHFULLY. My career is probably trashed because of my knowing. I was HAPPY. Now I'm a frigging basketcase. In a perfect world people wouldn't DO this ignorant selfish crappy sh1t to one another.

You asked me what I would do in your shoes.

I have no qualms about telling the man. I know how important it is for a man to know these things. I have no qualms about telling the woman (yes, she's a woman) the truth, because it is her basic right to know.

If they have the relationship you say they do, then you shouldn't fear this. Yes, it will have an affect, but they both are more likely to choose to work through it. There is no danger of abandonment, as we are talking about adults.

You are engaging in what's known as "feared fantasy". You think you know what these people will do...how they will react...and it paralyzes you from doing what is right.

You admit that there are likely other tumbledown consequences from keeping this secret. There will be more in the future. Lies beget lies.



This is what would make me fear having you as a friend. I would not trust a person who thinks like this. I don't know you from Eve, but you've revealed something about who you are here.

You have a chance to see it for what it is and address it.



The world is not perfect. It takes courage to rise above this "crappy ****" we do to each other.

Low

I'm having connection problems and didn't see your post:


I've been thinking along those lines. I wish I could know if he could handle it, I don't even know if my marriage will survive the truth. We've made it about 15 months so far.. I pray we make it.

The pain hurts almost as much now as it did when he first told me. I truly wouldn't wish this pain on anyone I care about. It's a pain that must be SURVIVED. It is a pain that can destroy.


Tell me again why he'd truly want to know so far down the road? Now that he's raised her and loves her?

10S,

Please give us guys some credit, ok? Our children mean the world to us and their DNA has no bearing on our love for them. If Dan is anything like us, the truth about him not being the sperm cell donor that helped create his daughter, while devastating, will not in the least change the love he has for HIS daughter. Love knows no DNA.

Now as to your question of what I would do if I was in your shoes? I would writte an anonymous letter to Dan detailing as much as I could the truth. I would also writte another anonymous letter to the perpetrator letting her know that the truth has been revealed to her victim [Dan]. INMNSHO she doesn't deserve to go on with her life without suffering the consequences of her actions.

I'm lucky that I have girls instead of boys for I would hate to have one or both of them to be the victim of this monstrous deception. Furthermore, if one of my daughters committed this monstrous act to her H and child, I hope that I could but I know that I would find it very hard in my heart to forgive her.

TMCM

There is a distinct possibility that he will be angry with you for telling. This doesn't negate the fact that telling him is right...

For NO OTHER REASON...than he has a RIGHT to know. Telling for ANY OTHER REASON in manipulative and deceitful. Not telling, even if you think it's best (in your judgement) is also deceitful and manipulative.

Let me ask something different -

What if my daughter were about to marry a man that she was very much in love with. And I find out that he's not who he says he is.

She loves him. She could go on loving him for years and be none the wiser. he might be perfect from this point forward.

Should I tell her? For no ther reason than SHE DESERVES TO KNOW.

So why to people deserve to know these things? It's so THEY can be the one's living authentics lives...NOT the fake lives that others around them would have them lead.

I think the men who knew this before have as much obligation as you to tell this. But they aren't here right now. If they were, I'd encourage them to the same way I'm encouraging you.

Low

10,

It is not evil to tell THE TRUTH. It is evil to LIE, and lies by omission are still LIES.

I'm not religious and it has been years since I read the Bible, but I can't recall one instance when Jesus advocated lying. Isn't Satan called the Master of Lies?

Look, tell or don't tell that is up to you. But surely don't pretend that what you are doing is noble. It isn't.

If I were the [email]b@stard[/email] love-child of some tryst that my mother had, I would want to know. I would want to know where half my genes come from. If genetic heritage wasn't important to many people, genealogy wouldn't be such a popular hobby and adopted kids wouldn't try so desperately to find out who their bio-parents really are.

If I were duped into raising a love-child of my wife’s I would be livid. If my wife were to become pregnant by someone else and she told me, I don’t know what my reaction would be. I don’t know if I would divorce. I have no idea. If I were told that my 15 year old son wasn’t really mine, again I don’t know what my reactions would be. I haven’t lived that reality. I know that I would be most upset about the deception than the illicit coitus that formed this child.

ARK,

I’ll try one more time. I don’t think that we can hear each other, but I’ll try again.
The question here is to weather to tell an adult man that he may not be the bio-Dad to this boy. This isn’t about what the boy should be told. You shape your argument into what will happen to this boy if the father is told. That isn’t the question. But it is an interesting on worthy of discussion. You ponder what will happen to the boy once the father is told. Your reaction is that the man will behave in a way that isn’t in this boy’s best interest. Why do you presume that the man will behave poorly to the boy? Why do you think he will harm the boy, emotionally or otherwise? Why do you think he will abandon the boy? He may not. He may react like you said you would . . . be grateful that he had to the chance to father this child for 15 years. The fact is that you are guessing his reaction and you are guessing that he will behave in a poor fashion. To me this speaks poorly of this man and of men in general.

It is, in my opinion, a moral imperative that this man be told. What this man does with this information is up to him. He may chose to do nothing. He may chose to cut off contact with his xw’s love-child. THAT IS HIS CHOICE TO MAKE AND NO ONE ELSE’S.

Yes, it was kind of mean to change my sig. in the fashion that I did. I didn’t do it just for you. There are many women here that share your belief that not telling the truth to the father is a perfectly rational action because it will protect the children. I see it as hypocrisy; especially when some of these folk scream so loud for HONESTY in affairs.

The revelation of paternity or of affairs have the potential to harm children. If the motivation is to protect children, then neither should be revealed. That is a consistent argument. It is also wrong.

I don't have a daughter but I don't know if I would tell her on her wedding day.

I have seen the Truth wielded as a weapon. There was no love involved. My mother committed suicide (in front of me) because she couldn't live with the revelation of her affair.

I am very sorry for your loss but the truth did NOT kill your mother. Your mother was a very sick woman who compounded one selfish action [her affair] with a more monstrously selfih one [committing suicide in front on you, her child]. Sick or not, we ARE all responsible for our actions.

TMCM

And that is why one must carefully examine their motives in sharing it...

The TRUTH is always GOOD. Knowing the TRUTH is always GOOD. Sometimes, the who what when where and how of it's disclosure can be handled badly.

Sometimes, fallible humans choose to respond badly to the truth. This doesn't make knowing the TRUTH a bad thing.

Low

You've got to be kidding me? You would let my...or your daughter...go through with a wedding on false pretenses?

I am appalled at this...

Low,

I wouldn't wait for the wedding day to tell my daughter. I would tell her as soon as I knew something wasn't right with the guy was dating.

If you wait until the wedding day you just increase the drama and put your daughter in a very uncomfortably situation.