I guess a lot of the problem us guys have is a lot of women are advocating deceit and lying if it suits them. They hide behind the best interest of the child.

I have lurked here of and on for several months but this is my first posting. I wonder if anyone here can give me some advice since my circumstances are somewhat different than any I have read here. I can see that you are all warm and caring people with knowledge of relationships that most people never have to deal with.
My story is briefly as follows. I discovered, after Christmas last year, that my youngest (27-year-old) son is the result of a long-term affair that my W (of 37 years) carried on until the death of her MM 7 years ago. We are working very hard on our marriage and are making excellent progress with our relationship and feel that we will make the rest of our journey through this life together. Yes, I still have some unresolved issues myself but I feel that I can overcome them with time, help from my W, and counseling.

Our problem is in our relationship with our sons. They were both present at the insistence of the hospital psychiatrist since I was possibly suicidal when I found out and he would not allow me to be alone for the confrontation with their mother. There was another short term A with another MM which, when exposed, brought out the whole truth of her past. Knowing what I know now, I probably would not have involved them at all, but under the circumstances at the time I felt I had no choice. We both love them very deeply and are committed to trying to re-establish some semblance of a family unit again although we know it will never be the same as it was before. The boys have maintained contact and shown love and support for me throughout this ordeal but they have excluded their mother even though I have assured them that we are going to remain together and we love each other. Both sons are married which adds some complications with in-laws. The oldest son refuses to talk about anything with her. He feels that he doesn’t want to be hurt again and we don’t know how to counter that argument. It seems to be a trust issue that he cannot face. The youngest son feels betrayed by her, but he has at least met with her to talk about it. Neither will agree to see a therapist even though we have agreed to pay for the sessions.
I know time will help but I also know that I am not getting any younger and I want to enjoy as much of my life as I have left without this dark cloud hanging over me.
Does anyone have any suggestions?

This is not correct and you should be careful not to generalize.

respectfuly agree to disagree with certain posters?

Octobergirl,

He said 'a LOT of women' not 'MOST or ALL women'. How is that generalizing?

TMCM

If you want to debate semantics,then he should have used the word few .And it's not clear what portion of the statistics mentioned are from those bio dads' who were thought to have been *deceived and requested tests.

I think what makes it so hard to RESPECTFULLY disagree is that I feel like I'm being asked to respect deceitful and manipulative behavior.

BTW...CN was right...he said "a lot of women"...not all. And we've certainly seen "a lot of women" advocate this behavior. Both here and in the stats...16% of you is a LOT of women.

Can you imagine the outcry if men began advocating domestic violence as an acceptable response to nagging?

The AABB (American Association of Blood Banks [1]) annually publishes consolidated statistics from many accredited paternity testing services. These may reveal, for example, that 28% of paternity tests were "negative", and the man tested is not the biological father of the child. (28% is a typical figure).

This does not mean that 28% of men in the population are not the biological fathers of the children they believe are theirs. It does not even mean this in sub-populations "at risk", such as broken families. And it certainly does not mean that there is a 28% rate of paternity fraud [2] in any given population or sub-population! In fact, it means very little other than what it says - these are simply the statistics for a given set of paternity tests, saying little about the rate of misattributed paternity [3] for the sub-population who have been tested.

If you want to talk about A LOT,then lets discuss breast cancer.**1 in 7 women will be diagnosed in her lifetime.

What is this thread DOING FOR US?

But for those who do get a test in the beginning and don't tell the father I have nothing but disgust for.Just like I do of,say,women who cry rape but were never raped and did so for some nefarious reason.They sully the honesty and integrity of women that are raped and DO need help and support

Hopefully making us think and develop insights that can benefit ALL OF US. I may strongly disagree with Ark and others, but I do acknowledge their courage in sharing with me their ideas and beleifs. This is not an easy subject, as the folks from the Pregnancy/Child will attest to, but neither is infidelity and we learned that ignoring it will not make it go away.

As you can see from the Blood bank quotes ,the stats aren't accurate in what the disucssion here is about.And by that measure I fail to see anywhere any definitive stats that purport 1 in 7 women deceive their husbands about their unborn babies.

O

The Detroit News Wednesday, September 25, 2002

"State reform plan fights rising paternity fraud"
by Dianna Thompson and Glenn Sacks / Special to The Detroit News DThompson2232@aol.com / Glenn@GlennSacks.com

"You play, you pay" is the response often given to men who complain about the financial burden of supporting their offspring. Today, for thousands of Michigan men, the refrain has become "You didn't play? You pay anyway."

The stories of victims of paternity fraud often provoke disbelief. Many men are falsely assigned paternity in default judgments and are compelled by the state to pay 18 years of child support for children whom DNA tests have proved are not theirs. Many of these men are not properly served notice of the paternity proceedings, never get their day in court and have no idea they are "fathers" until their wages are garnisheed.

Often by the time these men realize what has been done to them, the statue of limitations for challenging paternity has already passed, and they lose as much as half their take-home pay to child support, arrearages, interest, and penalties -- sometimes to support children they have never even met.

In other cases, men are misled into supporting children who are not theirs. Sometimes unwed men are urged to declare paternity of their girlfriend's or ex-lover's children at or near birth, and such declarations, when later found to be the product of deception, are hard to undo. Other men are deceived by wives who bear children through adulterous liaisons and who mislead them into thinking that the children are theirs.

In response to the paternity fraud crisis, the Michigan House of Representatives unanimously passed two paternity fraud relief bills last year. House Bill (HB) 4635 and HB 4636 direct courts to terminate child support obligations and cancel arrearages for men who can present evidence that they are not the fathers of the children whom they have been ordered to support. These bills are with the Senate's Families, Mental Health and Human Services Committee and will be the subject of a testimony-only hearing today.

Opponents argue that the bills would hurt children. However, these critics overlook the fact that when a father is forced to pay child support and arrearages for a child who is not his, his own biological children suffer. The children of falsely identified fathers need not be deprived of child support, because mothers in these cases can do what they should have done at the beginning -- disclose the true identity of their children's fathers so the state can then approach them to establish paternity and pay child support.

Children are also harmed by the current system because depriving a child of knowledge of his or her parentage can have damaging medical implications. For example, for children facing life-threatening illnesses such as cancers requiring bone-marrow transplants or other medical emergencies, knowing their biological heritage can be a matter of life or death. Also, according to the American Medical Association, it is important to have an accurate family history because genetic medicine is increasingly vital in the treatment of many diseases.

Michigan Family Independence Agency statistics indicate that 30 percent of the nonmarital paternity tests performed in Michigan exclude the tested man from being the child's biological father. The American Association of Blood Banks, which evaluated 280,000 paternity tests in 1999, found similar numbers.

Because paternity fraud is so common, several states, including Georgia earlier this year, have passed legislation allowing men greater opportunity to challenge paternity through DNA testing. A similar bill in California was passed by the Legislature and awaits Gov. Gray Davis' signature. Alaska has a law that requires unwed parents to establish paternity through genetic testing, thus insuring that child support orders are issued only to biological fathers.

Virginia Forton, founder and executive director of Moms for Dads, a group that supports the proposed reform legislation, says:

"Under the present system, it is easy for women to trick men and say 'this is your baby.' And it is the men who step forward and take responsibility for 'their' kids who are the ones who are most likely to get trapped. Everybody involved gets hurt."

-- Dianna Thompson is the executive director of the American Coalition for Fathers and Children in Washington, D.C. Glenn Sacks writes about gender issues from Winnetka, Calif. Write letters to The Detroit News, 615 W. Lafayette, Detroit, MI 48226, or fax to (313) 222-6417 or e-mail to [email]letters@detnews.com.[/email]

What has this thread done:

1) It helped us all re-examine our own personal ethics. Ethics we use when making decisions about how to dispose of marital issues.

2) It helped SOME fo us know a little about the people we share this forum with. I will never view advice about honesty and openess from some people the same ever again, because it's clear we have completely different ideas about it.

I think it was valuable, if not pleasant.

A LOT of men are pigs or skirt chasers or bereft of emotion.

I haven't been brought to tears in a long time but this thread has done so for me.