If there were, would you read them? There's plenty of help here, in the bible, in and in study groups at church. Are you using those resources?


When are you going to swim to shore and rest? It's your choice. This is your fight, that you are choosing to fight. Why?

Faith,

My frustration: On here many people may understand my beliefs about no-sex-before-marriage, but most don't live it nor do they have any intentions of living it, so it's hard to believe they understand what a struggle it is for me. (I think maybe GNP is the rare exception, though he's not in a dating relationship right now.)

The bible has a lot to say about pre-marital sex, but it doesn't give much info on divorcees and how to go about dating. It just says in some situations, they can remarry. The expectation for Christians, I believe in the bible, is that they marry young and generally quickly, and they stay together for life. So the bible speaks of the virgin remaining pure and for people to marry rather than to burn with passion. It doesn't tell me as a divorcee how to go about this whole situation.

My church has ZERO groups. I've emailed a couple larger churches in my area to see if they have 40-ish singles. One has a group of about a dozen 40+ people who meet in someone's home (I took it that they were actually probably quite a bit older--and they don't do activities or anything). And then they have a 20's & 30's group that actually does activities, but those would be the younger crowd, most of whom have not been married yet.

The other church is looking at maybe starting a group for older singles but doesn't have anything active yet. The person who responded to me from their singles ministry is a never-married mid-20's guy. Some struggle are the same, but many are very different.

So I'm still researching.

In all honesty, I'm convinced the church doesn't really know how to handle divorcees because it's just not supposed to happen in Christian families. Widows, maybe--and when the guy in my church lost his wife a year ago, I think they had meals lined up for him and his family for something like a month. I got maybe one call and one card when my ex left me. It's hard. I do feel like an outcast.

LL

So honestly - stop and think - Why can't you have a relationship that involves sex or some sex and you not consider it a sin..????? I mean obviously I don't think you think it is a huge sin or you wouldn't do it.... I just think from reading your stuff - that you want this Christian Marriage if you will and that - it is gonna be that or nothing - But you have set your standards so high that you cannot live by them... Who says that it isn't alright to be in a healthy relationship and love god?? I am just wondering...??? I mean - Really - Don't beat yourself up???

“””I think I was led to sin. But then again, no one held the gun to my head. I went along willingly.”””

OK, we’ll get back to you in a minute. I’m not usually one to have someone look outside themselves, but for you, I’ll make an exception. You laid out an initial boundary clearly and concisely and he blew through it. So again, you lay down another boundary and again, he blows through it. How does it feel to have some totally not respect and support your boundaries? To he!! with the fact that you can’t respect them, didn’t you talk about wanting a spiritual leader, well how is he leading?

“””I am very confident that I won't go to the ultimate act.”””

I’m glad you are because I willing to bet that he and I are confident that he’ll continue to push right on through and get ‘er done.

“””Am I teachable. I'm truly thinking that I'm not, and sometimes I feel like just throwing up my hands and giving up.”””

Awesome idea but don’t give up, give in to Christ. Stop blocking Him from giving you his blessings.

”””And furthermore, on the avoiding sin issue--that's the one that really stumps me.”””

LL, I’m going to make an assumption or two here but I don’t think I have to head cashier at the Wal-Mart to figure out that if you go stay the night at his house that something is going to happen. Heck, staying the night at his house is what I was talking about. Are y’all sharing a bed, as if you were married, that’s the appearance of sin that I was referring to? You’ve shown that you have weakness in this area yet you do the exact same thing expecting different results and it ain’t happening. You have knowledge of yourself, yet you ignore it and somehow are surprised when something happens…DUH….

“””I'm seriously thinking that in today's day and age, where nobody seems to share my beliefs, that dating is just not even going to work for me, and that I should seclude myself from men and just totally hang around woman, and work very hard to never think about hugs, kisses, a partner to share my life with, physical intimacy (sex) or anything of that nature.”””

OK this is where I throw my Bull$hit card. That’s total non-sense. Gurl, you ain’t respected your own boundaries, how on earth do you expect anyone else to. Just because this dude doesn’t share your beliefs, which if I remember correctly he kind of did till he got lucky, doesn’t mean that they don’t exist, it just means you ain’t found it yet. And part of the reason you ain’t found it is because you have not demanded it.

””””And now I feel like God is saying, "LL, you are a sinner. You don't deserve to be with anyone. Your destiny is to be alone for the rest of your life."”””

Is the pitty pot moment over?

”””I truly am sick again today. I was better, but after all this thinking about sinning and how not to sin, and what it may mean for me...”””

Then stop it….. You have moral, values, standards, and beliefs live by them.

God sets the "sin" standards, I don't. I would love to not consider it a sin, but that's not what God says. And it's my understanding that God says sex is reserved for marriage only, meaning I can't have sexual things outside marriage.

Living by them is easy when you're not dating anyone because it's impossible to get in trouble short of actually going to a bar or something and seeking someone out, which I do not do. But when in a relationship with someone I love, and when I'm in close physical proximity to them (which does happen in dating), and when physically attracted to them (and generally we don't desire a relationship with someone we feel no attraction to), it's very, very, very hard not to want more. And when 99% of divorced guys are going to push for it at some point, it just seems to me that it will be impossible for me to date at all...ever...

And I'd thought about eharmony, if this all ends, because you can specifically ask for someone who is saving themselves for marriage, but after reading the eharmony thread, and hearing a few others' views on it, I'm thinking my money would be wasted there.

While I have personally known two people who met people on there successfully (and one is now married, I believe the other is still dating the person--haven't heard in a while), in the instance where the person is still dating, I also know they have a sexual relationship and may even be living together at this time.

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Okay, so how do I approach the guy about the boundaries issue now, since I didn't do it at the time, and didn't hold to them? Or can I?

You all are just thinking I'm nuts trying to hold onto this and hope somehow the relationship could work, aren't you?

LL

LL,
Do you know how God talks to us? Through prayer, the Bible, other Christians, and church. How else can He talk to us? You mentioned that you didn't know if the voice you were hearing was yours or God's.

If you are pushing away us (because you think we don't understand sin, dating, struggles, temptation, anxiety, control, self-control, etc),

pushing away other Christian counselors (counselors, friends, etc, because you can't afford them, or can't otherwise relate to them),

pushing away the Bible (because it doesn't directly give you practical how-to's on how to keep your hands to yourself)

and pushing away the Church (because it doesn't directly give you step-by-step instructions on how to be single, 40, and dating)

all you are left with is...

prayer.

Prayer is good, but why push the others away? Sometimes, it IS hard to discern our own voice, and God's, if we are ONLY relying on prayer.

Don't say it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. I know... "Faith, I'm not pushing the others away". Yes, you are. You made a whole list of excuses of why they are no good. Yes, you've made some effort in researching them. No, they're not perfect. Those people, places and things are NOT your exact circumstance. But they don't have to be. You can still gain wisdom and knowledge from them. Quit fighting them, and soak them in. Are they confirming the instructions you are receiving from God? Are they encouraging you to stand firm in your decision and take care of you? or are they telling you to ignore this instruction from God?

Ba humbug LL!!

I can give you the name of three or four churches in OUR area that have singles groups and can live up to your standards!!!!
All I'm seeing from you is excuse after excuse! Faith has a good point... how do you know WE aren't the answer to your prayers?! How do you know I'M not when I live 10 minutes from you?!
I'm not having sex! I am alone, I'll be 40 next year, and look! I'm still alive! I'm living a happy, healthy life! I'm not dwelling on what I DON'T have, I'm focusing on what I DO!!!!

Faith/Drita,

I don't know that you guys are not the answer, or part of it, to my prayers.

And there are so many things I think about, from people on here, from my family, from others. My brain is scrambled. I think that's part of the problem. And I just can't put my finger on concrete steps. Should I do this? Should I do that? What if this? What if that? That's all I hear, over and over and over in my brain. It about drives me nuts because I'm prone to overanalyzing even on a good day. On a bad day (or a bad three+ weeks), it can drive me batty.

My main issue right now is not knowing what to do with the guy (BF, whatever). I truly love him. It's hard enough I think for a relationship to end when it slowly dies. But I'm still stuck in the "I feel so good with him" mode, and to think that perhaps I'm supposed to just say, "Bye, BF, I'm done" and give up...I think that's where I'm digging in my heels because it's going to hurt SOOOO bad, and I'm not even totally sure it's what I need to do yet.

But that's what's driving me crazy right now. I get to thinking that God is saying "leave him", you guys sort of lean that way, and then my mom calls and says "LL, never give up on God, he could work this out. Don't break up with the guy yet. See what happens." And it's really hard to bail on someone you love if you're not 100% convinced it's the right answer.

UGH!!!!!

LL

Asking again:

How do I approach the guy about the boundaries issue now, since I didn't do it at the time, and didn't hold to them? Or can I?

And second, when? He has this paper that he now has an extension on until next Monday from his professor, so his brain is going to be there for a week. Is it fair to bring it up now, and have him all upset about us again at the same time he's trying to redo his paper? Or is it even less fair to let him think all is okay, and then spring it on him later?

And how can I bring up, or can I, that it seems selfish of him to not respect my boundaries?

LL

LL - Why don't YOU try leaving him alone for a week? You might feel like he didn't respect your boundaries, but come on, you were right in there with him.

LL, did you read LostHusbands post? Cuz if you didn't read it. If you did, read it again......

Now, I realize you love BF, but LL I find it very disturbing and very selfish of him to keep pushing and pushing and pushing. Is he not a grown man??? Does he not love and respect you?? Has he not heard a word you've expressed to him?? He knows you are struggling w/ this, yet he pushes, SELFISHLY......and I don't see that as loving, respectful, or gentleman like behavior.

I know you love him, and like LH said, don't engage in behaviors or activities that can lead you astray. C'mon LL, I'm a highly affectionate, sexual person myself, I understand that, but I can control myself and have done so many times, in many loving situations. It's about loving and respecting yourself enough to reinforce your boundaries. I think you are afraid to, in many facets, to enforce them for fear of losing the person...........

Now, this 2X4 was delivered w/ the utmost kindness and best wishes for you:)

DW

Heh. Now that's a familiar feeling...

I'd agree that it's fair to say the Bible teaches that if we're really saved we won't continue indefinitely in deliberate sin. But the Bible has plenty of examples of believers who chose a path of sin for a time. What you don't see are believers choosing such a path and then remaining complacent about it. Conviction, "chastening," repentance...what a Christian cannot do is rest in sin.

I don't know where you might have picked up the idea that being saved removes the struggle against sin. Much of the Bible is devoted to that struggle, and even Paul himself - who had enough confidence in his own walk to hold himself up as an example - lamented his continuing struggle. What we are promised is that we can be victorious in the power of the Spirit - not that we will be free of the fight.

I don't believe that's a terror God wants you to have. I think He really wants you to trust in His love, and He would much prefer that you wanted to stay close to Him because you loved Him and wanted to experience His love, than because you were afraid He would smack you down if you so much as took a step in the wrong direction.

Lip service is easy, especially when what you are saying is what the listener wants to hear, and when you would like to believe it about yourself. But cultural Christianity is not the real thing. The real thing is not comfortable! True Christians know they are on a battlefield, and there is no room for complacency. While there is much joy in knowing God, He wants us to grow and to serve - neither of which are particularly pain-free processes.

I believe it is within the realm of possibility that a real Christian could have no issue with pre-marital sex - but only because God in His mercy was letting it slide in order to work on other things in that person's life. See, I believe that if God were to show us everything we were doing wrong all at once, we would be overwhelmed.

However, I don't buy that as an explanation here. In your case, you're dealing with a man who seems to be comfortable not just with his own behavior, but also with encouraging you to stumble. That's pretty heavy stuff, and I simply can't quite bring myself to believe that God would let that slide.

Personally, I believe the level of disrespect he is showing toward you is completely reprehensible.

Ouch! Well, perhaps he's not quite so comfortable with his behavior after all, if he feels enough shame to keep him away from your church. But his this-is-your-issue-not-our-issue attitude doesn't bode well.

Yeah, that's a tough one. It always hurts to see someone we love heading down a path that leads to destruction, no matter how "comfortable" that path may seem to be. I'm not so sure about the "hot potato" bit, but one thing I am certain of is that joining him in his complacency toward God will do him no good at all.

Your actions suggest that you are willing to settle for much less. At some point you are going to have to decide what you really want, because only then will you be able to choose actions which will take you in that direction.

Believer,

As far as I know, we have no plans to see each other at this point. That's the other part of the issue--he's not committing to anything in the future at this point, other than a phone call or email. I didn't think I was going to see him last weekend, but he called and I missed him, so agreed to go over there. It'd been about 10 days since we'd been together. And right now there's been no mention of seeing me this weekend either. I'm guessing it's partly due to the paper that is now due on Monday, his final extended date, and I'm still thinking partly because he's just not sure about me or where we stand or if he wants to proceed or how to proceed or anything.

I should have let him call me again tonight like I did last night, but hadn't heard by 9:30 and figured he was getting tired, so called him. But he wasn't feeling too great and obviously wasn't wanting to talk, so I limited my conversation and within 6 minutes I said, "I better let you get some sleep." And we hung up. That's way down from our 85 minute calls. On one hand I think it's just another bad sign--things are burning out? On the other hand I'm trying to tell myself that he really is major stressed about this paper, and also has a cold, and then our issues on top of it all...he probably doesn't feel much like talking. See, analyzing AGAIN! It just never ends.

DW,

Yes, I read LH's post. Actually I've reread it about a half dozen times now, a couple of those times just for the humorous sarcasm, because I needed a smile. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

But he's right in that I have not demanded respect. This is a long-standing issue for me. My ex never respected me--not from the time we started dating at 15. My kids don't respect me, much of that pattern learned from their father who set the example that it was okay to pick on or belittle "Mom". I'm not really sure I know what it's like to have my boundaries respected. And I'm doing a very poor job trying to make it happen.

And he's right, sleeping (as in "zzzzz...", not sex) with the guy is not a good idea. I really thought we'd be okay (and actually we were Sunday night, though I suppose if anyone knew I was over there, there was the appearance of sin). Had we stopped where we were Saturday night before we went to sleep, I might have felt a little guilt from some fairly heavy petting, but nothing like what Sunday morning's antics cause me to feel.

I'm not even sure why I'm worrying right now. He's not even committed to seeing me again.

And you said:



There is most likely some truth to that. It gets back to my perception of all good things in my life never lasting. And my mind knows how wrong and how stupid it is. But my heart is really digging in and not wanting to break things off with him.

LL

I think that's a pretty good idea, lordslady. Back off for a bit. Give him a chance to finish his paper, and give yourself an opportunity to establish enough distance for a little more clarity.

If he asks you whether you're mad at him...well, you certainly have a right to be, and it isn't going to do either of you any good to pretend that you're not made at him if you are.

As believer (and others) pointed out, you have just as much reason to be upset with yourself. But the fact that both of you are responsible doesn't absolve either of you from blame. So if he tries to throw your responsibility in your face, that should tell you something.

I admit that I'm curious as to how he would respond if you asked him whether he thought his behavior toward you was respectful. And seriously, lordslady, if you're too afraid to ask those kinds of questions, you need to think about how ready you are for a healthy relationship.

I am not going to advise you to "break up" with this guy. Personally, I am very skeptical that he is the right man for you. He is not currently husband material, and I see no evidence at all that he is headed in that direction. But if you avoid confrontation because you are too afraid of the consequences of rejection, then your relationship would have to be considered dysfunctional.

GNP,

First, thanks for being so willing to give me some insight on your interpretation of the biblical issues I mentioned. I know this is a marriage builders website and not a site dedicated to Christian beliefs discussion, but it does help to have people who I think understand my beliefs and some of my struggles. And getting someone else's perspective is good.

Second, while I'm not feeling like it's a good idea right now to get into heavy discussions with him about boundaries, respect, or any other issues for a few days simply out of consideration. I don't want to be the cause of him losing his concentration on this 30-page research paper. It is a very important part of a grade for a $1,300 class.

But I would like to somehow talk with him soon about the whole boundaries/respect issue. I'm truly not sure how to bring it up and have it not look like I'm pointing fingers which will automatically send him to defense mode. It really is both of us. Granted, I clearly stated boundaries. But when he pushed them, I didn't get up and walk out either because by that point I was very much enjoying being physically close to him and the kisses and cuddling and backrubs and the wrongness of what we ended up doing was not clicking in my brain. In fact it really didn't hit me hard until my 2-hour drive home on Monday, when I had lots of time to think and pray.

So, because I'm part of the problem, I'm trying to figure out how to bring it up. I can't just say, "So, BF (or whatever), how do you feel about disrespecting my boundaries?" I need to own up to my part as well. And how does one set the boundaries back again in a polite, caring way?

And finally, you know I wish I COULD be mad! It's the same problem I had with my ex that probably caused me to try and save that marriage for longer than I should have once his affair started. Dr. Harley says eventually our love bank goes dry. I must have a very large bank. Even though I can plainly see disrespect, and I can understand your concerns about his not yet being husband material, I can't seem to get angry with him or want to pull away. I wish if we're not supposed to be together, he'd just do something so blatantly awful that it'd blow my love for him out of the water. But it's not happening.

LL

You have to love yourself to be loved, you have to respect yourself to be respected. If you want to have a healthy relationship.

The same with boundaries.
If you set your boundaries to be firm like a rock, irrevocable without any possibility of stepping back in your decision, he would either left you right away OR accept and respect your boundaries. (Otherwise he wouldn't be a man worth of being a single minute with him anymore.)

But, this way, with you being torn and insecure about your own decision, going back and forth, I cannot blame him at all. He just behaves as you do. 50/50 responsibility and 50/50 blame (whoever wants to blame it).
(And, in this "50/50", I was very soft regarding your part. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

What's going to happen?
Playing "Kama sutra" ('give a little to want me more') can cause him changing his wish to delay marriage and doing it before he is really ready, and that will be a boomerang later on, with all negative consequences, but that is another story we might listen to in the future), or, he might loose respect for you in all.
That depends on how you lead all of this.

Once again, why don't you wait to be ready yourself for all changes...?

I hope you mean that in a good way, my somewhat tanned neck or as y'all might call it, redneck, side was having a little fun. Plus you're a skinny woman and I can only smack with so many 2x4's so humor's the next thing.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Putting that aside as I, Gnome, and others have pointed out there are some serious issues, especially in the arena of boudaries and the respect there of.

Putting that aside a moment, I reread one of your first posts about Mr Awesome guy, namely, the post where you gave him the 'anchor' or spritual leadership. I believe at that time you were very optimistic about the ability to actually stay within your boundaries and excited about your spritual life together getting somewhat giddy about him coming to your church. So the serious question I asked and ask again is how is he leading? Is he leading you towards or away from God? Is he leading you towards more or less involvement in the church? Is he leading you, as a couple, to a rewarding mutual prayer life? Do you look at your spiriual leaders relationship with God and marvel at it? Is he walking the talk?

At times of trials and tribulations, one of my favorite reads is the Book of James.....

[color:"blue"] LL [/color]
I want to respond to your questioning whether your BF is saved. It reminds me of questioning whether my H (a former leader in our church) was saved after his A. Going by the things you've listed, I think it's pretty safe to say your BF isn't surrendered to Christ, and not walking in His light. I think it's also safe to say that if he was, and slipped in a momentary sin, he'd be repentant (as you {and others we know} were). And he's not. In fact, he's practically ridiculing you for your beliefs. You need to let him go, as if he wasn't saved, and just think of him as another person on your prayer list. Has you thought of having your pastor talk to BF? That might give you confirmation about where BF stands on spiritual things. To be honest, if you brought your situation to my pastor, he would insist on talking to your BF, and tell him to keep away until such a time that BF showed he was right with God, and deserving of LL’s love. (They’ve done this with others - if BF was serious about being Christ-centered, it would be obvious, and the leadership would joyfully endorse the relationship.)

I am in the same boat you are...smaller, family-oriented church, with no singles group. But it’s neat how God has used my situation to show our pastor some things along that line. Previously, there hasn’t been much thought to single moms, or people who have needs (other than older widows). Now the pastoral staff is thinking and planning with different family situations in mind. And since I was separated, there have been 7 other women in their 40s added to our church. And guess what - they all are divorced!

Belonging,

I do agree with you--I've been very wishy-washy with my boundaries and it's no wonder BF is confused. I did state them, I truly wanted to maintain them, but when push came to shove I caved in, and then the disappointment with my self and my failure kicked in.

I know I need to reset the boundary back to what I originally stated (probably less even...still thinking). That, of course, only applies if he decides to see me again. Right now nothing has been mentioned and we only talked 8 minutes tonight. He's still not feeling well.

And then if we do see each other, I have to find the strength to hold to that boundary no matter how he reacts, and I may well have to find even more strength if it brings everything to an end because he's unwilling to accept the boundary. My mind says it's the right thing because if he can't hold to this boundary, it shows both a lack of respect and a lack of solid Christian beliefs, but my heart finds it much harder to deal with!

LH,

Yes, I took it in a good way. I got your points, but the humor did bring a smile which was something I haven't done a lot of lately.

In answer to your last paragraph, up until things got heated between us, I think we were moving the right direction. But once we went to a physical relationship, God got pushed out of the picture, by both of us. The problem is, now once I want to bring God back, I'm not seeing that same desire (or at least not nearly as strong a desire) from him. I'm seeing a frustrated guy who is more or less pouting and being stubborn because something to taken away that he really wanted and enjoyed. I was really hoping that it would have been resolved one way or the other by now...either he would have accepted it and agreed to work within my boundaries because he agreed it was what we should do, or he would have ended things with me because he just couldn't accept it at all. But here we are, still in some sort of limbo, most likely because I've given in on some of my boundaries. So tonight I'm in the "blame LL" mood.

Avondale,

Tough post to read though I know you may be correct. I am always hesitant to judge anyone else's heart because only God can see in it. Granted there are just some people whose lives are so totally skewed that there is little doubt (sadly, my ex fits this category, and it's hard, even with all he's done to me, to think that he may not be saved...I still pray occasionally that both he and his OW might see the light).

Where my BF(?) stands, I'm not sure. But I am concerned. He truly does believe he's saved. I know a lot of people do who are probably deluding themselves. The bible says so. I haven't been around him long enough to see if he is growing overall. Right now, I'm not seeing much growth. I think there is a tremendous amount of anger in him toward his exwife for what she did to their marriage, what she did by taking away his ability to be a full-time parent to the kids he was very close to, and what she still does by playing manipulative little games. I know he's also very angry at what his L/T girlfriend of 2.5 years did to him by having another guy on the side. And he's very frustrated with his schooling for his doctoral degree right now. He has a LOT of frustrations that come out from time to time. He says his live has been "not right" for 5.5 years now (the time since his DV). So I'm not sure if he lacks Christian faith, or if he's just very broken and a bit disillusioned with everything. Sometimes his pushing of my boundaries almost comes across as wanting to be in control of something. I think he feels very out of control.

But then again, he made a comment to me a week or so ago--I believe the night he said he couldn't tell me if we were still a couple. He said, "LL, I feel like you're saying we can't spend much time together, we can't have any alone time, and lets just have bible study 7 days a week instead." (or something to that effect). On one hand, I can understand him being afraid that I was flipping on him and becoming some religious zealot. But on the other hand, it made me a little nervous because it brought back memories of my ex being so against bible reading or discussing.

So, I know you're saying let him go and just put him on my prayer list. I am REALLY, REALLY struggling with that. He is on my prayer list. Letting go--not quite there yet. But I've driven myself crazy this evening reading stuff on line about salvation, to the point I feel like no one I know could possibly be saved, including myself, because we just don't fit the description of someone who shows the signs of being saved. I'm finding myself questioning my own salvation at this point, because I am living in fear of being separated from God and not in joy of what Jesus did for me. Does this mean that I'm not trusting properly. I should want to trust Jesus because I love him for what he did, not because I'm scared and want him to save me. And there have been times when I was very comfortable with my salvation. Right now, I'm not. And it's agonizing...

As for your comments about church, my pastors have also suggested trying to find other people my age or thereabout in my situation to form a support group. But then again, their wives were also going to alternate turns calling me for a while to make sure I had the support I needed. No one has called me yet. Our church keeps getting smaller and smaller. There are times I really think I'm not in the right church, but it's about worshiping God, not LL having the "proper experience". I hate to bail on them when they're down, and it's so hard to find a church anymore that doesn't have washed-out beliefs. But I'm struggling. Not that I wish my status on someone else, but I do wish there was even one person like me in my church. There is one other woman who is separated, but she's making headway with her spouse. They may get back together.
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And it's just been a very difficult day so I'm feeling extra battered. Work was stressful, the BF thing is weighing VERY heavily on my mind, I'm questioning my own Christianity, and then my daughter who has been in Salt Lake City for a week decided tonight that she didn't want to get on a bus to come back home.

I was on the phone off and on for three hours telling her I was NOT buying her and her girlfriend plane tickets to fly them back, and at the same time scared to death that she'd decide to either stay out there or would try something stupid like hitch-hiking back because they weren't thinking clearly. Then she called her dad, which got him upset, which then caused the OW to start calling me. (Actually, that was probably much better than talking to my ex, because he gets mad and refuses to be reasonable, while she stayed fairly calm and actually was helpful in trying to come up with ideas to get DD on the bus AND to help track her down.)

Long story short, my daughter IS on the bus and is now in Wyoming, but until 5 minutes ago when she called me, I wasn't sure she'd actually gone through with it and boarded in SLC. It's a very messy situation, and I need to figure out some solutions when she gets home. And I don't even know where to start. There are potential drug issues (not addictions, but that she admitted doing coke while she was out there) and the guy she saw out there is apparently making his way to Iowa in 2 weeks and she thinks I'm housing him (I'm NOT, which could well mean she moves out). Lots to think about. Lots to pray about. Kids can really break a person's heart. (And my other one, while doing fantastic in college and showing a lot of potential for his future, is an agnostic.)

Sometimes I feel like if something doesn't give and I don't find some peace soon, I'm going to lose my mind. I'm praying and I'm trying to believe, but I'm wondering if I'll ever really find it, because I'm having such a tough time submitting my entire will, my entire self, every single thing in my life, to the Lord.

LL

[color:"blue"] LL [/color]
I know my post was a tough one to read. The adage that "it's hard to see the forest for the trees" is so true! And it sounds like you don't have people around you (other than those here online) who can and will speak truthful things. The truth hurts sometimes, but must be said to bring about personal change, which I know is what you desire. Everyone here at MB is for you, LL . Please know that. But we're also able to be objective (as far as we can with the info you post). I'm sure since this is the holidays, it is compounding your emotional quandary too. I understand, and am praying for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />